All Dogs Go to Heaven

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How can i explain to an agnostic that animals do NOT have souls yet humans do (an explaination without biblical support)? His argument is that animals can have reason as we do and we are basically no different than animals in our needs to survive on food, water, etc.
 
I don’t see how you can argue this point because you would have to do it from a religious point of view (souls) and the agnostic does not necessarily believe that humans “have” souls.

But, on the other note; my dog IS going to heaven! Maybe it will be doggy heaven but he’s going! 😃
 
If animals have reason, why aren’t they discussing this with you themselves?
 
Maybe it’s a dog heaven but our Kita repents when she does wrong, warns us of danger and will at least look at her food (saying Grace) before she digs in. She has threatened potential assault twice as our Guardian Angel would and on Sundays when we go to Mass (7:30) she looks and stays in her place knowing it is not time to go for a walk yet. Possibly this is sufficient grounds for her entrance to Dog Heaven. If not more material will be submitted.

Dogs deserve a place to get relief from the stressful life us humans have subjected them to, why not a Dog Heaven? My vote is in the affirmative.
 
I think animals go to heaven, if not for their own sake, for the sake of the souls in heaven who own pets. Anyone who has owned a dog knows that heaven will be missing somthing if their pet is not there.
 
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Andrew_11:
I think animals go to heaven, if not for their own sake, for the sake of the souls in heaven who own pets. Anyone who has owned a dog knows that heaven will be missing somthing if their pet is not there.
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No - I think that is a mortal emotion and concern. I think that once we (if we) reach heaven, we will be so completely satisfied that pets will not be required for love and affection. Why would we possibly need the love of our pets when we would have the love of Christ?

Here on earth, it is comforting to think my beloved cat will meet me in heaven, but I don’t think I’m gonna care if I do reach home.
 
My wise grandmother told me that whatever I needed to be happy, I would have in Heaven. I choose to believe that.
 
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Maranatha:
Hope this helps.
Do Animals Have Souls?
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I have had many dogs and they all, without exception, gave me what I would consider Unconditional love and devotion.

Isnt this a great example for us in our love for God?

I think God had a special plan when He created dogs. I can imagine God saying: Lets show what love should be and continually remind their masters.
 
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StMarkEofE:
I have had many dogs and they all, without exception, gave me what I would consider Unconditional love and devotion.

Isnt this a great example for us in our love for God?

I think God had a special plan when He created dogs. I can imagine God saying: Lets show what love should be and continually remind their masters.
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I like to think of dogs as a kind of material “mirror” of the spiritual angels. Unconditional love through affection, assistance, personality, a social life that is very reflective of our own. Perhaps God is giving us a material gift for our material selves to reflect the spiritual world He created. In a way I think this could be expanded to all animals, but dogs in particular, IMO, reflect this potential side of things.

Just my personal musings, no major theological underpinnings for it 🙂

Peace and God bless!
 
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JohnAnthony:
How can i explain to an agnostic that animals do NOT have souls yet humans do (an explaination without biblical support)? His argument is that animals can have reason as we do and we are basically no different than animals in our needs to survive on food, water, etc.
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It was explained well to me by a (now deceased) local theologian. He would expound on the difference between souls and salvific souls. To enter heaven one must have a salvific soul. From your friend’s POV a soul is more of a personality. (or animalality?) Your friend as an agnostic does not accept the concept of free will as a Christian would, therefore might have trouble with bahaviors that are conditioned vs. behaviors that are chosen. By his argument plants have souls because they are alive and need food and water to live.

Many Christians have trouble with the idea that animals behave the way they do largely through conditioning. The priest, who better than I, explained it in much detail over classes that lasted many days. Most people ask, “Do animals go to heaven?” Most people mean, “Do pets go to heaven?”

There is a lot more to this theology that I can share if you are interested. I don’t have online resources though. Father died over 10 years ago. I have this discussion continually with an agnostic/skeptic friend of mine. He is actually turning towards the idea that animals really are a perfect gift from God and might be one of the ‘proofs’ to God’s existence he’s been looking for. (We’ve only been discussing it for 15 years so far!)
 
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JohnAnthony:
How can i explain to an agnostic that animals do NOT have souls yet humans do (an explaination without biblical support)?
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How do you know that animals do not have souls? What do you mean by “soul”? Do you differentiate between soul and spirit, or are they the same? If you do, what is the basis of that differentiation?
His argument is that animals can have reason as we do . . .
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I am convinced they do. I have been around animals quite a lot, and have been able to observe their behaviors quite closely, and you would be amazed at how much intelligence and rationality they possess. They just are not able to communicate with us at the present time, because for some reason best known to Himself, God has not allowed it. But on occasion when God has permitted it, that conversation has taken place quite intelligently. The serpent in the Garden of Eden, and Balaam’s donkey are cases in point.
. . . and we are basically no different than animals . . .
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That part of it is not right. We are different from animals; but that difference does not consist in us having “souls” and they and they not having it; or in our being “rational” and they not being so. The main difference is that we are created in the image of God, and they are not. Origen believed that all the living creatures of God would be resurrected, not just us humans. If he is right, that means that animals also go to heaven! John the revelators saw that all animals praise God:

Revelation 5:

13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
If they are capable of praising God, then it is reasonable to assume that there is a higher purpose to their creation than to live for a moment and disappear into nothing.
. . . in our needs to survive on food, water, etc.
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That part of is right. We are no different from animals as far as our need to survive on food and water is concerned.

amgid
 
In Old Testament times God demanded animal sacrifices in atonement for man’s sins, later Christ came and offered Himself so that man’s sins could be forgiven - the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

So God required the life of the innocent before He’d forgive the sins of the guilty. And let’s not forget that animals cannot sin therefore they are still as God created them. That being the case then I wouldn’t be so quick to write animals out of heaven.
 
One theory I have heard…that really is interesting to ponder.

Animals have souls…just not individual souls. It is as if they have one huge shared soul, and it explains why they exhibit instinctual behaviors that are unchanged over centuries…

example…Dogs like to play fetch…they have been playing fetch for centuries…they also dig, wag their tails and greet their masters in the exact same way that they have forever…they have a collective soul…the soul of dogs.
 
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Lillith:
One theory I have heard…that really is interesting to ponder.

Animals have souls…just not individual souls. It is as if they have one huge shared soul. . .
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This is kind of similar to what Alan Watts believes about humans. But I think he is something of a Buddhist.
 
Part of our problem here might be terminological. There’s no reason to think that animals have “souls” in the sense of having human spiritual advantages and obligations–i.e., they’re not capable of drawing close to God or damning themselves; they’re not responsible moral agents. If my dog swipes my food, he hasn’t committed “larceny”; if a tigress kills another in a might, she has not committed “murder”; no matter how unwelcome a male animal’s sexual attentions may be to a female of the species, the moral dimension is absent that would let us call such actions “stalking” and “rape.” All these things depend on moral responsibilities that properly attach to the human soul.

HOWEVER, not having a soul in the classical sense is no argument about persistence after death. Anyone who has had a dog, cat, or parrot knows that they are individuals with personalities–they have opinions, intentions. There’s something there–they’re not automata, at least the higher animals aren’t. There’s no reason to think that their existence is devoid of metaphysical heft, that they’re dross that will pass from the universe with death.

Remember that, if nothing else, animals are part of God’s creation. One of the many things that continue to pull me towards Catholicism is the sense that Creation, the physical world, is not a mistake (as the Gnostics believed), or somehow irrelevant and illusory, as too many Protestants act as if they believe. God’s ultimate plan is that His Creation be redeemed, not superseded, and animals are integral to Creation.

It’s a mistake to raise our animals to man’s metaphysical dignity, but an equal mistake to think them outside God’s ultimate plans. Let’s not forget that He takes joy in them.

When I explained all this to my Chihuahua, she looked confused, but pleased. I’m not sure that Heaven will find her any wiser, but have no reason to think its gates locked to her.
 
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