All Fridays are Fast Days

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What do you wonder?

Christ gave us an authority on Earth to which we owe obedience. That Church can institute certain disciplinary practices, and we are bound by them. Those disciplines can change or be dispensed. What is odd about this?
 
This has some truth to it, but I fear it has a rather narrow view.

Since when is it no longer pious or devout to faithfully obey the commands of Mother Church? If that act is devoid of piety or devotion, it is wholly due to a lacking disposition on the part of the individual. That individual who obeys the Church’s precepts with a disposition of drudgery surely would not have chosen to do those good works by his own volition otherwise.
 
dshix said:
This has some truth to it, but I fear it has a rather narrow view.

Since when is it no longer pious or devout to faithfully obey the commands of Mother Church? If that act is devoid of piety or devotion, it is wholly due to a lacking disposition on the part of the individual. That individual who obeys the Church’s precepts with a disposition of drudgery surely would not have chosen to do those good works by his own volition otherwise.
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Don’t know your age or experience within the church from a historical point of view. My acquaintance and I are senior citizens, well acquainted with, and influenced by, the pre-Vatican II church. Both of us remembering being “chastised” as terrible sinners for eating eggs fried in lard or bacon fat. Or fast food fish sandwiches prepared in environments tainted by meat products. Just a few (what I consider absurd) examples, but very real nonetheless. Jewish divorce laws also come to mind. These laws, or rules, are meant to promote devotion and/or obedience to legitimate ends, but the enforcement becomes so scrupulously stringent to make those practices devoid of devotion or piety.

Your post leads me to think we are addressing the concept from different POV’s. I read you as seeing my concept from the individual’s point of view; me I am considering it from an institutional POV. I do agree with your idea of the mindset of the lackadaisical Christian. I think one can agree with my idea that an ironclad, no exceptions under any circumstance, viewpoint by those in authority, is also fosters neither piety or devotion.
 
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It is perceptive of you to note the different point of view.

In writing my post I did not include in my analysis the circumstances of how these disciplines are enforced. I agree with you that when they are enforced in a way which is not sensitive to the current spiritual need of the faithful, or which is otherwise not conducive to growth in virtue, it can have a harmful effect.
 
Because the church can lay down laws to suit its own overall vision which may not be as it should be.
 
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jim1130 said:
I found this: http://www.catholiconnection.com/2013/02/fasting-and-abstinence-old-rules-compared-to-new-rules.html

And this: http://www.catholic-pages.com/life/fridaymeat.asp
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I went to look at the first link and I’m not sure that strict fasting was universal until Pope Paul VI’s time.

While I do recall fast and abstinence on Christmas Eve, Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, and abstinence on all other Fridays, I do not recall any fast on weekdays of Lent or abstinence on Lenten Wednesdays. That sounds more like an Eastern discipline. I also don’t recall fast and abstinence on the Eve of Pentecost or the Immaculate Conception.
 
Could you clarify what you mean? What do you mean by the “vision” of the Church? Are you, rather, referring to the “vision” of the clerics who are in a position of authority in the Church?

We may disagree with the wisdom of pastoral decisions made by bishops or the pope. But that does not mean we are liberated from obedience to the disciplines they lay down. Christ instituted the Church and filled it with men; He did not promise those men would be perfect, only that the Church would always be guided by the Holy Spirit to have correct doctrines in regard to faith and morals.
 
Sometimes, i think the church make up rules to suit themselves or their own ajenda
 
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I reckon before 1917 there were a whole lot of Catholics in USA who were so poor that one meal’s worth of food was probably what they were eating most non-fast days too.
 
In the UK abstinence from meat is the norm for every Friday. First Friday of Lent I bought lunch, (which I thought was) a tuna sandwich. Started to eat it and realised it was turkey. I carried on eating it. Genuine mistake and for me it would have been worse to throw the food away (couldn’t have kept it for the Saturday) when there are so many going without. It also made me realise I may need new glasses.
 
AngelusDomini said:
In the UK abstinence from meat is the norm for every Friday. First Friday of Lent I bought lunch, (which I thought was) a tuna sandwich. Started to eat it and realised it was turkey. I carried on eating it. Genuine mistake and for me it would have been worse to throw the food away (couldn’t have kept it for the Saturday) when there are so many going without. It also made me realise I may need new glasses.
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And of course remember that n the Briefing Notes (published at the same time as the announcement by the Catholic Bishops of England and Wale) made it clear that failing to keep to Friday abstinence ‘did not rise to the level of mortal sin’.
 
You need to be more precise in the words you use. Don’t speak of “the Church” in this way.

Rather, it seems you are referring to certain “churchmen” who, in your opinion, use their position of authority in ways that you disagree with.
 
The Church as it is now is in no way how Jesus or the Apostles began it.
I believe that there are rules etc that are not from God. I love the Church but i am also a bit skeptical of certain parts of it.
 
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Whether you like some of the Church’s rules or not, God gave the Church authority to put those rules in place.

You are bound by sin to obey the Church’s disciplines. Whether Jesus personally instituted a rule or law is irrelevant - you are still offending Him if you disobey the Church.
 
I disagree.

Remember what Jesus said. Its not what goes in the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of it.
 
Heh. Well, I’m not debating with you. I’m telling you a fact: it is a sin of disobedience to the Church and to God to disobey one of the Church’s disciplines knowingly, willingly, and without dispensation.

Perhaps you don’t fully understand what I mean when I say “Church discipline”. Can you give me an example of something specific you don’t agree with? That might help me to understand where you are coming from.
 
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