All graces flow through Mary

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Pythagoras

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It is said that all graces coming from God flow through Mary. She is the dispenser of all graces to men.

I would just like to ask if men prayed to Jesus and Jesus decided to answer their prayer and He wants to give grace to these men, does it have to go still through Mary before being distributed to these men?

My understanding is Yes, even if Mary seems to be hidden/quiet in the distribution of these graces. Am I correct?
 
some people believe this… including some saints and Popes… but no where near a majority.

I do not… All graces come from God, some of those come through Mary, some though the sacraments, some through other Saints, some directly from God. There is no evidence in the deposit of faith that all graces flow through Mary. To me, to say so is pure theological speculation.

Here is a summary of the most recent official Church action on the subject…where the top Mariologists worldwide discussed the topic. campus.udayton.edu/mary/resources/internationalmarianacademy.htm
 
Pythagoras said:
It is said that all graces coming from God flow through Mary. She is the dispenser of all graces to men.

I would just like to ask if men prayed to Jesus and Jesus decided to answer their prayer and He wants to give grace to these men, does it have to go still through Mary before being distributed to these men?

My understanding is Yes, even if Mary seems to be hidden/quiet in the distribution of these graces. Am I correct?
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I do not like the “neck” or “dispenser” imagery as I find it simplistic and on-the-surface contradictory to Catholic teaching. For example, it is Catholic dogma that all sacraments work ex opere operato, a visible sign signifying an invisible reality. When the priest absolves, it is Jesus absolving, and directly, through the ministry of the priest. Mary does not “distribute” this grace, and neither does it “flow” through Mary as though through a necl from the head; it is Christ himself doing imparting this grace, directly, through the ministry of the priest and the sacramental action. Ditto Eucharist: when you receive worthily, it is the very Eucharistic presence of Christ that imparts the grace.

I would stick to the catechetical, rather than the mystical formulas, as I find that a lot of the saints, in their zeal, can overstate things. Mary’s role is intercessory, even intercessory par excellence. It can be held that in the order of grace, all graces given to men have been obtained with our Lady’s intercession. Not that God has made his grace conditional upon our Lady’s (or anyone’s) intercession (i.e. if-then, but that he has willed the granting of those graces upon the intercession. And since God’s will is immutable, the very act of intercession is also part of God’s active will.

The closest I will accept to the “neck” and “dispenser” imagery is as an analogue of her motherhood: since Christ is Grace himself, and through her “Yes”, brought him into the world, she, in a way, “dispensed” that grace to us. But that’s as far as I will go.
 
We also have to take into account when these things were written.
Most of them originated when Catholics were not catechized except for the various homilies and writings of pious clerics. While a certain pious belief was meant to be taught, often flowery language was used to impress upon the faithful that certain devotions were beneficial.
Surely no one believes that God Himself has to go through anyone else to dispense grace as He desires.
God bless. the other answers are really good reads.
 
Pythagoras said:
It is said that all graces coming from God flow through Mary. She is the dispenser of all graces to men.

I would just like to ask if men prayed to Jesus and Jesus decided to answer their prayer and He wants to give grace to these men, does it have to go still through Mary before being distributed to these men?

My understanding is Yes, even if Mary seems to be hidden/quiet in the distribution of these graces. Am I correct?
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I can see everyone has ignored your question and just given views contrary to Catholic understanding. What you ask was not thought up in a time of ‘flowery language’ but has been revealed in more contemporary times although some early mystics possibly were aware of the truth.

Our Lady has been reasoned to be Dispensor of Grace and if this is the case then all graces would pass through Our Lady. She is the spouse of the Holy Spirit ,so this reasoning makes sense. The world will come to know this eventually. And it is only a matter of time before a fifth Dogma is certified (hopefully sooner rather than later).

Also, an official Vatican document uses words to indicate that this is the case. Surely though, this is the only logical answer, because if Our Lady is the Dispensor of Graces then she is the *Dispensor of *all Grace?! Where is the difficulity in understanding that term?!!

Also, to another poster, spiritually, Our Lord is given to us in Holy Communion through the process of consubstantiation.

So, back to the OP, don’t be diverted from sacred truths by falsities that will take you away from the true sacredness of our Holy Sacrmaments. Stick to your Catholic knowledge, and believe.

If you post questions like this on an ‘anything goes’ public forum then you will receive false education now and then and are setting yourself up for a wilderness of sorts. Seek proper research sites, read a Catholic book or go to the ‘apologist’ section, where you will receive proper education in such matters. This way you will stay on solid rock. 🙂
 
friardchips said:
I can see everyone has ignored your question and just given views contrary to Catholic understanding. What you ask was not thought up in a time of ‘flowery language’ but has been revealed in more contemporary times although some early mystics possibly were aware of the truth.

Our Lady has been reasoned to be Dispensor of Grace and if this is the case then all graces would pass through Our Lady. She is the spouse of the Holy Spirit ,so this reasoning makes sense. The world will come to know this eventually. And it is only a matter of time before a fifth Dogma is certified (hopefully sooner rather than later).

Also, an official Vatican document uses words to indicate that this is the case. Surely though, this is the only logical answer, because if Our Lady is the Dispensor of Graces then she is the *Dispensor of *all **Grace?! Where is the difficulity in understanding that term?!!

Also, to another poster, spiritually, Our Lord is given to us in Holy Communion through the process of consubstantiation.

So, back to the OP, don’t be diverted from sacred truths by falsities that will take you away from the true sacredness of our Holy Sacrmaments. Stick to your Catholic knowledge, and believe.

If you post questions like this on an ‘anything goes’ public forum then you will receive false education now and then and are setting yourself up for a wilderness of sorts. Seek proper research sites, read a Catholic book or go to the ‘apologist’ section, where you will receive proper education in such matters. This way you will stay on solid rock. 🙂
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:confused:
Wow.
 
friardchips said:
I can see everyone has ignored your question and just given views contrary to Catholic understanding. What you ask was not thought up in a time of ‘flowery language’ but has been revealed in more contemporary times although some early mystics possibly were aware of the truth.

Our Lady has been reasoned to be Dispensor of Grace and if this is the case then all graces would pass through Our Lady. She is the spouse of the Holy Spirit ,so this reasoning makes sense. The world will come to know this eventually. And it is only a matter of time before a fifth Dogma is certified (hopefully sooner rather than later).

Also, an official Vatican document uses words to indicate that this is the case. Surely though, this is the only logical answer, because if Our Lady is the Dispensor of Graces then she is the *Dispensor of *all **Grace?! Where is the difficulity in understanding that term?!!

Also, to another poster, spiritually, Our Lord is given to us in Holy Communion through the process of consubstantiation.

So, back to the OP, don’t be diverted from sacred truths by falsities that will take you away from the true sacredness of our Holy Sacrmaments. Stick to your Catholic knowledge, and believe.

If you post questions like this on an ‘anything goes’ public forum then you will receive false education now and then and are setting yourself up for a wilderness of sorts. Seek proper research sites, read a Catholic book or go to the ‘apologist’ section, where you will receive proper education in such matters. This way you will stay on solid rock. 🙂
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What do you have to say about the official Catholic statement about this topic linked earlier? Or is Mark Miravalle and the movement to pass a fifth dogma the official spokesperson for the Church?

Sorry for being curt, but you’ve essentially called all posts except the OP un-Catholic and backed it up with a number of non sequiturs.

I highly recommend the book ‘The Question of Mary’ by Fr Rene Laurentin… A world leading Catholic scholar on Marian topics for the answers you are looking for. The book carries and imprimatur and nihil obstat… So you can rest assured that the views in the book express the mind of the Church
 
godisgood77 said:
some people believe this… including some saints and Popes… but no where near a majority.

I do not… All graces come from God, some of those come through Mary, some though the sacraments, some through other Saints, some directly from God. There is no evidence in the deposit of faith that all graces flow through Mary. To me, to say so is pure theological speculation.

Here is a summary of the most recent official Church action on the subject…where the top Mariologists worldwide discussed the topic. campus.udayton.edu/mary/resources/internationalmarianacademy.htm
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And do not forget that special graces called charisms are infused directly by the Holy Spirit.

The movement for the declaration of the 5th dogma endorsed by Miravalle and many more is partly by promptings from a 1950s Marian apparition called “The Lady of all Nations”.The lady promised peace, which some see as the triumph of the Immaculate Heart, if the pope declares the dogma.

Interestingly though is that initially the bishops of the diocese the apparition occurred at condemned it as well as a letter from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.Many years later a new bishop seemed to approve it though.
 
I also don’t believe it. I’ll be happy to admit I’m wrong if I’m directed to an official Church document or a link to a statement by an actual Church authority.

Until then, it’s merely a matter of opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own - those having a differing opinion are not “unCatholic.”
 
captainrick said:
I also don’t believe it. I’ll be happy to admit I’m wrong if I’m directed to an official Church document or a link to a statement by an actual Church authority.

Until then, it’s merely a matter of opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own - those having a differing opinion are not “unCatholic.”
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This is religious relativism. It is not a “matter of opinion”. Religion is not about choosing what one’s preferences over truths. If one doesn’t know something then one has a responsibility to research properly - especially when a poster asks details about a Catholic truth. If people don’t know then they could do with not posting. It is posting when not knowing that causes people to fall away from the faith. I wonder how many people have searched a question in Google, come to this public forum, and gone away believing something that is not true. Makes me kinda mad. :mad:

There is a Vatican document which states the details related to the thread question.
 
Pythagoras said:
It is said that all graces coming from God flow through Mary. She is the dispenser of all graces to men.

I would just like to ask if men prayed to Jesus and Jesus decided to answer their prayer and He wants to give grace to these men, does it have to go still through Mary before being distributed to these men?

My understanding is Yes, even if Mary seems to be hidden/quiet in the distribution of these graces. Am I correct?
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’http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

967 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to** every prompting of the Holy Spirit**, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)510 of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a **wholly singular way **she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls…

For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

969 "**This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly **…

…from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect…

Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office…

…but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512…

IN BRIEF
973 By pronouncing her “fiat” at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish…

She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body…

…974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son’s Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

975 “We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ” (Paul VI, CPG § 15).

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God…

…and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509’

Catholic understanding. Written in stone.

Operative words being: ‘advocate’ and ‘mediatrix’.

🙂
 
friardchips said:
This is religious relativism. It is not a “matter of opinion”. Religion is not about choosing what one’s preferences over truths. If one doesn’t know something then one has a responsibility to research properly - especially when a poster asks details about a Catholic truth. If people don’t know then they could do with not posting. It is posting when not knowing that causes people to fall away from the faith. I wonder how many people have searched a question in Google, come to this public forum, and gone away believing something that is not true. Makes me kinda mad. :mad:

There is a Vatican document which states the details related to the thread question.
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I believe St John Paul 2 had a distinguished group of theologians discuss this idea that Mary is co redemptrix Mediatrix and Advocate.

Their conclusion concerning these titles was that is it not only unnecessary but confusing.It would serve no useful purpose and it could cause some to see the Catholic Church as elevating Mary to the level of the Trinity.

I love Mary and love to pray her rosary which is a compendium of the gospel and our salvation. However in my research there is nothing in the catechism which state she alone can give grace, All grace comes from God.

I too am very uncomfortable with the analogy of her being the “neck” that connects the body( the Church) to Jesus the head.

It was her “yes” that began our salvation and she is blessed above all women for her obedience to the will of God.

In actuality we are all mediators in a sense when we pray for one another. Yet there is one mediator between God and man and that is Jesus Christ.

Holy Mary,Mother of God,PRAY FOR US sinners.
 
cjforJesus said:
I believe St John Paul 2 had a distinguished group of theologians discuss this idea that Mary is co redemptrix Mediatrix and Advocate.
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Yes… JP2 did indeed have this explored thoroughly… Here are their findings:

campus.udayton.edu/mary/resources/internationalmarianacademy.htm

***Declaration of the Theological Commission of the Pontifical International Marian Academy

Request for the definition of the dogma of Mary as Mediatrix, Coredemptrix and Advocate

The twelfth International Mariological Congress, held at Częstochowa (Poland) in August 1996, was asked by the Holy See to study the possibility and the opportuneness of a definition of the Marian titles of Mediatrix, Coredemptrix and Advocate, as is being requested of the Holy See by certain circles. A commission was established, composed of fifteen theologians chosen for their specific preparation in this area, so that together they could discuss and analyze the question through mature reflection. In addition to their theological competence, care was also taken to ensure the greatest possible geographical diversity among the members, so that any possible consensus would become especially significant. It was also sought to enrich the study group by adding, as external members, some non-Catholic theologians who were present at the Congress. The commission arrived at a twofold conclusion.
  1. The titles, as proposed, are ambiguous, as they can be understood in very different ways. Furthermore, the theological direction taken by the Second Vatican Council, which did not wish to define any of these titles, should not be abandoned. The Second Vatican Council did not use the title “Coredemptrix”, and uses “Mediatrix” and “Advocate” in a very moderate way (cf. Lumen Gentium, 62). In fact, from the time of Pope Pius XII, the term “Coredemptrix” has not been used by the papal Magisterium in its significant documents. There is evidence that Pope Pius XII himself intentionally avoided using it. With respect to the title “Mediatrix,” the history of the question should not be forgotten: in the first decades of this century the Holy See entrusted the study of the possibility of its definition to three different commissions, the result of which was that the Holy See decided to set the question aside.
  2. Even if the titles were assigned a content which could be accepted as belonging to the deposit of the faith, the definition of these titles, however, in the present situation would be lacking in theological clarity, as such titles and the doctrines inherent in them still require further study in a renewed Trinitarian, ecclesiological and anthropological perspective. Finally, the theologians, especially the non-Catholics, were sensitive to the ecumenical difficulties which would be involved in such a definition.
The commission included Father Pavao Melada, O.F.M. and Father Stefano Cecchin, O.F.M., the President and Secretary respectively of the Pontifical International Marian Academy, Father Cándido Pozo, S.J. (Spain), Father Ignacio M. Calabuig, O.S.M. (Marianum - Rome), Father Jesús Castellano Cervera, O.C.D (Teresianum - Rome), Father Franz Courth, S.A.C. (Germany), Father Stefano De Fiores, S.M.M. (Italy), Father Miguel Angel Delgado, O.S.M. (Mexico), Father Manuel Felicio da Rocha (Portugal), Father Georges Gharib (Melkite - Syria), Father Réné Laurentin (France), Father Jan Pach, O.S.P.P.E. (Poland), Father Adalbert Rebic (Croatia), Father Jean Rivain (France), Father Johann Roten, S.M. (USA), Father Ermanno Toniolo, O.S.M. (Italy), Mons. Teofil Siudy (Poland), Father Anton Ziegenaus (Germany), Canon Roger Greenacre (Anglican - England), Dr. Hans Christoph Schmidt - Lauber (Lutheran - Austria), Father Ghennadios Limouris (Orthodox - Constantinople), Father Jean Kawak (Orthodox - Syria), Prof. Constantin Charalampidis (Orthodox - Greece).

Source: L’Osservatore Romano (6/4/1997)***
 
Nonsense.

‘Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, “Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity…In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son.”’
 
***'Pope John Paul II **used the title Mediatrix a number of times and in his encyclical Redemptoris Mater wrote:

“The maternal role of Mary towards people in no way obscures or diminishes the unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power”: it is mediation in Christ. …Mary’s mediation is intimately linked with her motherhood…through this fullness of grace and supernatural life she was especially predisposed to cooperation with Christ, the one Mediator of human salvation. And such cooperation is precisely this mediation subordinated to the mediation of Christ.’*
 
‘“Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix” (Lumen gentium, 62).’
 
As you will see from this website, her title in no way diverts from the power of our Creator, but rather magnifies it:

airmaria.com/category/subjects/popes/pope-francis-on-mary/page/2/

If someone tried to tell me my real name was not my real name then it would get frustrating after a while but I would not mind and would simply think this person had some issues.

When someone tells me that Our Lady is not Our Lady, and by that I mean, attempting to chip away at who Our Lady is, in the entirety and dignity of her person, in the omnipotence of Our Creator, this does. What right is it for anyone to attempt denying Our Lady of her personhood, in our Creator.

Maybe I could tell you that you are not who you are over and over. It would not make it true. Our Lady is who she is, in our Creator. This cannot be undone by individual personal preference. It is quite clear.

The fifth dogma has not been certified but only because it has all been said already by Popes, saints, holy men and women, and is indicated in official Church teaching, which is why I quoted the Vatican document.

And I believe it will happen. I pine for the day.
 
friardchips said:
Nonsense.

'Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity…In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son."’
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This quote from the great Saint does nothing to refute the idea the graces come to mankind through a number of channels… one source, many channels.
 
friardchips said:
As you will see from this website, her title in no way diverts from the power of our Creator, but rather magnifies it:

airmaria.com/category/subjects/popes/pope-francis-on-mary/page/2/

If someone tried to tell me my real name was not my real name then it would get frustrating after a while but I would not mind and would simply think this person had some issues.

When someone tells me that Our Lady is not Our Lady, and by that I mean, attempting to chip away at who Our Lady is, in the entirety and dignity of her person, in the omnipotence of Our Creator, this does. What right is it for anyone to attempt denying Our Lady of her personhood, in our Creator.

Maybe I could tell you that you are not who you are over and over. It would not make it true. Our Lady is who she is, in our Creator. This cannot be undone by individual personal preference. It is quite clear.

The fifth dogma has not been certified but only because it has all been said already by Popes, saints, holy men and women, and is indicated in official Church teaching, which is why I quoted the Vatican document.

And I believe it will happen. I pine for the day.
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I’m sorry…This is really a bogus argument…

No one is denying Mary anything… she is the first behind Christ and has been blessed by God more than any other creature. There is no fifth dogma…No one in this thread advocating for the Mediatrix of all Graces has addressed JP2’s commission and their findings or the fact that an earlier commission (in the 1930’s I believe) found the same thing. This devotion falls in to the realm of private devotion. No where in what you have referenced is the idea of Mary’s universal mediation of grace referenced or proclaimed.

BTW - the link you provided in your last post has Pope Francis talking about Mary’s motherly role… not mention of universal mediation of grace…
 
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