All have sinned.. including Mary.

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NDfan said:
I’m not guessing. You also need to stop mis-quoting Jesus. It’s not the church that Jesus says would be guided into all truths. Jesus says the Holy Spirit will guide “us”, you and me into all truths.

I majored in theology and completed Bible college. So what would you like to resolve?
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**Gee, NDfan - I never finished college and even I can see that YOU’RE the one mis-quoting Jesus. **

He never said the Holy Spirit would guide “us” or “you and me” into all truth. He was speaking to the Apostles at the Last Supper when he said:
***“But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.” ***(John 15:13)

As for your claim that the Catholic Church somehow invents doctrine that is not based on Scripture - see my post #494 that pints to the Ark of the Covenant prefiguring Mary.
 
NDfan said:
I’m not guessing. You also need to stop mis-quoting Jesus. It’s not the church that Jesus says would be guided into all truths. Jesus says the Holy Spirit will guide “us”, you and me into all truths.
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Sure. The Holy Spirit is guiding me to know that Mary was sinless.
 
Lampo said:
Sure. The Holy Spirit is guiding me to know that Mary was sinless.
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I see that some take the indwelling and guidance of the Holy Spirit rather lightly.
There are some Bible verses that suggest such an attitude is not a wise thing to do.
 
elvisman said:
NDfan -
The Catholic Church has NEVER said that Mary wasn’t saved by Jesus. The Church says that Mary was saved BEFORE she was born - at conception.

This analogy has already been used on this thread but I’ll use it again to illustrate the point to you:
You and I can liken our salvation as having fallen into a puddle of mud. Jesus pulls us out of the mud of sin.
Mary was saved FROM falling into the puddle in the first place.

Here’s something for you to think about: If you believe that the Ark of the covenant had to be pure and lined with gold to hold SYMBOLS of God - how much more pure would the Ark of the NEW Covenant have to be to ACTUALLY carry God - PHYSICALLY within her?
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I’m curious as to where you got the idea that the Ark of the Covenant was meant to carry God. I may have missed that in Scripture.
Thanks.
 
mozart-250 said:
Even if this is true statement, it would then only be necessary for Mary to be sinless during the nine months she was carrying God the Son.
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do you think that after knowing God the way the Blessed Mother knows Jesus you would sin? once you experience the Grace of GOD
you would sin? I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t and I know that mother Mary wouldn’t.
 
brkn1 said:
I’m curious as to where you got the idea that the Ark of the Covenant was meant to carry God. I may have missed that in Scripture.
Thanks.
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It carried the WORD of God (the 10 Commandments).
John 1:1 CLEARLY states:
"In the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the Word WAS God (Jesus)"
This prefigured Mary, who carried the WORD within her (Jesus).

**Look at the following comparison from 2 Sam. 6:9-14 **where David says:
"How can the ark of the Lord come to me?" He left the ark in the hill country of Judea for three months. David danced and leapt in front of the ark and everyone shouted for joy. The house of Obededom, which had housed the ark, was blessed, and then David took the ark to Jerusalem"

Compare this now with the text from **Luke **1:39-45
In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah, and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord"
Verse 56 goes on to say:
"Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home."
 
brkn1 said:
Because you seem to be jesting when you say the the Holy Spirit is guiding you.
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Funny but several hours ago i mentioned that the Indwelling of the Holy spirt led me to a very differrent conclusions than others who claim to have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit, I asked how we could resolve that and thus far I have no answer.

So tell me why does the Spirit lead Jehova Witnesses one way, Baptist another and Mormons still another>

What we have seen since the 'reformers" claimed all we needed was Scripture and the Spririt is mass confusion
 
NDfan said:
That’s a good one I like that:)

Consider this from Irenaeus:

Just as Eve, wife of Adam, yet still a virgin, became by her disobedience the cause of death for herself and the whole human race, so Mary, too, espoused yet a Virgin, became by her obedience the cause of salvation for herself and the whole human race…

Now it’s interesting that Irenaeus includes Mary with the rest of the human race as receiving salvation from Jesus. Jesus paid the price for sinners. Hmmm guess that makes Mary a sinner.
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The very formulation givs her priority. She was the first to be saved, and necessarily since her relationship with the divine is unlike that of any other human being.
 
'm saying Jesus was sinless because he was GOD incarnate, because Mary conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus didn’t need Mary to be sinless so HE would be sinless. That’s what is proposed by many on this board. That if Mary was sinful, her sinful flesh would make Jesus sinful. I said that’s impossible.

you’re right Jesus did not need Mary to be sinless, because Jesus is sinless but Mary needed to be sinless to be the Mother of GOD.
 
brkn1 said:
Because you seem to be jesting when you say the the Holy Spirit is guiding you.
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Not at all. Let me explain. The Catholic Church has the promise of the Holy Spirit to be guided into all truth. I believe 100% of what the Church teaches. Therefore, I am guided by the Holy Spirit in believing that Mary was sinless.
 
lurdes said:
do you think that after knowing God the way the Blessed Mother knows Jesus you would sin? once you experience the Grace of GOD
you would sin? I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t and I know that mother Mary wouldn’t.
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Do you actually think that ANY of us sin because we want to???

Do you?
 
Lampo said:
Of course! Who else is making the decision to sin?
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I was just responding to the person who said that Mary would not have sinned because she knew Christ and would not have wanted to sin. If it were as easy as not sinning because we don’t want to it would be quite a better world!!!
 
Singinbeauty said:
I was just responding to the person who said that Mary would not have sinned because she knew Christ and would not have wanted to sin. If it were as easy as not sinning because we don’t want to it would be quite a better world!!!
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Wouldn’t it though? 🙂
 
KJK80 said:
You’re the one who said nobody sins because they want to–so that must mean we’re forced?
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We don’t want to but because of our nature it isn’t as easy as not doing it because we don’t want to…
 
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