All have sinned.. including Mary.

[KJK80]

LOL…Okay, that was kinda funny wasn’t it? You said that you can’t be wrong on something you don’t take a stance on. I take it that you have bought a can of baked beans before. Could you prove that there were baked beans in the can you bought? You don’t know for sure there are baked beans in that can. You have faith in the label. You could be wrong about them being baked beans in that thare can. I’m just trying to show that you have taken a stance on something you can’t prove.

My wife does the shopping (she won’t let me handle money) and trust me, she’d know if there wasn’t any baked beans inside without opening the can.

Not sure what you’re trying to prove here, sorry brother; you haven’t met my wife’s shopping skillz.

 

[Lampo]

My wife does the shopping (she won’t let me handle money) and trust me, she’d know if there wasn’t any baked beans inside without opening the can.

Not sure what you’re trying to prove here, sorry brother; you haven’t met my wife’s shopping skillz.

10-4, bro. Maybe I better call it a night.

 

[KJK80]

No, I do not think that you believe I won’t be there… but there are SOME who do. I can’t wait to prove 'em wrong… Hopefully - God and I have a LOT of work to do…

It’s been weird lately (the weather here in WA)… in the last week or so we have had rain, snow, sun… sheesh! But I love the green so I don’t mind the rain. Now, if my roof would only stop leaking I could actually enjoy the rain again!!!

LOL, I know the feeling!

Sorry about your leaks. Use bubble gum! (sorry, I’m a structural engineer, I couldn’t resist giving some professional advice!)

BTW, I look forward to seein’ ya up there.

 

[Singinbeauty]

LOL…Okay, that was kinda funny wasn’t it? You said that you can’t be wrong on something you don’t take a stance on. I take it that you have bought a can of baked beans before. Could you prove that there were baked beans in the can you bought? You don’t know for sure there are baked beans in that can. You have faith in the label. You could be wrong about them being baked beans in that thare can. I’m just trying to show that you have taken a stance on something you can’t prove.

Ahhhh, I gotcha… LOL… Believe me, with the last couple of weeks that I have had it is easy to lose me sometimes…

You can say the same about people, the label may say catholic but do you know for SURE that they are catholic on the inside? I have a friend who claims catholic but she disagrees with the teachings and attends protestant (non-denom) churches. The label doesn’t match the insides.

But I love her no matter what!

Same for the label Christian, sometimes you open the can and it turns out to be full of moldy cheese…

And yes, I may argue that there is beans in the can since that is what the label says, but at least I have a label to read. Mary’s sinlessness is not spelled out in scripture. So I do not take a stance on it until I find something difinitive to argue off of.

 

[Singinbeauty]

LOL, I know the feeling!

Sorry about your leaks. Use bubble gum! (sorry, I’m a structural engineer, I couldn’t resist giving some professional advice!)

BTW, I look forward to seein’ ya up there.

Bubble gum eh? I hadn’t thought of that…

My church recently tried to fix it for me (I live in a mobile home from the 70’s with a metal roof) by pouring on the sealant and even a professional who goes to the church put it on but to no avail. *sigh I am now considering a roof wrap.

Anyways, enough about my roof! God will take care of it somehow…

Looking forward to meet you too…

 

[Lampo]

Mary’s sinlessness is not spelled out in scripture.

And it’s not contradicted in Scripture either.

So I do not take a stance on it until I find something difinitive to argue off of.

You’ve got something definitive to argue off of and don’t realize it! The Church that is the pillar and bullwark of truth - the Catholic Church!

 

[KJK80]

Mary’s sinlessness is not spelled out in scripture. So I do not take a stance on it until I find something difinitive to argue off of.

Honestly, without being Catholic I wouldn’t expect you to.

Though I wish more Christians would give Mary more respect, even if they don’t believe the same way Catholic’s do; Mary is the most blessed woman (or man, next to Jesus) to walk the Earth. She came closest to God of anyone on Earth. And her faith and willingness to give herself to God should be an example to every Christian on Earth.

Mary was very hard for me to accept… Mainly because, in order to cover the anti-catholic agenda, Mary had to be “put in her place”… add to that, we didn’t believe in any life after death until the resurrection… Yeah, rough… But now that I am (starting) to understand her–my understanding of the gospel message is so much greater… but that’s just me.

 

[KJK80]

My church recently tried to fix it for me (I live in a mobile home from the 70’s with a metal roof) by pouring on the sealant and even a professional who goes to the church put it on but to no avail. *sigh I am now considering a roof wrap.

Is it like an ag barn metal? Where is it leaking? Are ther actually holes in the metal or is it at the screws? Or the seams?

 

[Singinbeauty]

Honestly, without being Catholic I wouldn’t expect you to.

Though I wish more Christians would give Mary more respect, even if they don’t believe the same way Catholic’s do; Mary is the most blessed woman (or man, next to Jesus) to walk the Earth. She came closest to God of anyone on Earth. And her faith and willingness to give herself to God should be an example to every Christian on Earth.

Mary was very hard for me to accept… Mainly because, in order to cover the anti-catholic agenda, Mary had to be “put in her place”… add to that, we didn’t believe in any life after death until the resurrection… Yeah, rough… But now that I am (starting) to understand her–my understanding of the gospel message is so much greater… but that’s just me.

Question:
Why, by not taking a stance on this in either way, is it that I don’t respect Mary? What does this have to do with respecting her?

See, I am thinking that she would rather me not take a stance and focus on Christ than to take time out and worry about whether she sinned or not. She has always put God first and I think that she would like me to do the same…

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

er.

Remember I am looking for evidence that a certain claim of faith originates from the apostles apart from the written word of God. Otherwise you can get me to believe anything.

The Blessed Trinity, The names of the father and mother of the blessed virgin Mary, Joachim, and St. Anna. For starters, How do you think we know the name of the parents of the virgin Mary, Oral Tradition handed down., by the Apostle St, John who cared for the Blessed Virgin Mary. Want more? Take up a Catholic Bible study.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Is it like an ag barn metal? Where is it leaking? Are ther actually holes in the metal or is it at the screws? Or the seams?

LOL, OH NO! The roof seems to have gotten you too…

It is leaking through the ceiling. As far as I know there are no actual holes.

All I do know is that the ceiling in one of the rooms has some mold (I WANT MY MASTER BEDROOM BACK!!!) and one room has the ceiling coming down in it.

I almost got kicked out of the mobile home park because of the tarps I used to have up there so they had to come down and now I get to enjoy the natural waterfall that is my entry way…

 

[KJK80]

Question:
Why, by not taking a stance on this in either way, is it that I don’t respect Mary? What does this have to do with respecting her?

See, I am thinking that she would rather me not take a stance and focus on Christ than to take time out and worry about whether she sinned or not. She has always put God first and I think that she would like me to do the same…

I’m not saying that you don’t respect her… I’m saying I wish more would respect her… I wish I had been taught to respect her more, growing up.

 

[Lampo]

The names of the father and mother of the blessed virgin Mary, Joachim, and St. Anna.

That’s not in Scripture? I did not know that.

 

[KJK80]

LOL, OH NO! The roof seems to have gotten you too…

It is leaking through the ceiling. As far as I know there are no actual holes.

All I do know is that the ceiling in one of the rooms has some mold (I WANT MY MASTER BEDROOM BACK!!!) and one room has the ceiling coming down in it.

I almost got kicked out of the mobile home park because of the tarps I used to have up there so they had to come down and now I get to enjoy the natural waterfall that is my entry way…

Eesh! Does your roof slope one way or does it just slope one way? I.e. does it look like this / or this /\ (of course, with not that much slope).

 

[Singinbeauty]

Eesh! Does your roof slope one way or does it just slope one way? I.e. does it look like this / or this /\ (of course, with not that much slope).

I believe it does raise in the middle just a little. It’s not flat but there is not a huge pronounced ‘A’ in the middle either…

Now, how can we tie my roof into Mary being (or not being) sinless so that we can claim this is on topic?

Or should we just blame it on dilerium and keep going?

How 'bout each side has holes in it that can create leaks…

Ok, I tried… LOL

 

[guanophore]

Actually this devotion to Mary took time to develop. It is totally unknown in Scripture and took centuries to develop its various characteristics. In fact it is still developing in that she is now being spoken of as the spouse of the Spirit and the mother of mankind.

It took at least three months, I think…

Luke 1:41-45
Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”

What you claim protestants don’t see can easily be said by protestants “you see what is not there”.

I agree. There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

The idea that Mary was born without sin is totally unbiblical. In fact Irenaeus, Tertullian and Basil the Great are just a few who thought she sinned.

I think it is difficult to glean such a doctrine from scripture alone. At least as difficult is the table of contents to the Bible.

If by “ensoused” you mean she was married to the HS is something that should never be said. Mary is never spoken of in the Scriptures this way and no one should ever claim that she was.

LOL

Is that like being drunk on new wine?

Generally, when a woman is intimate with someone, and bears their child, she is considered a spouse.

You need to get used to this. The Scriptures are clear that she, a daughter of Adam, inherited his sin when she was born. This makes her as all men and women sinners.

No, we don’t need to “get used to” your private interpretations of scripture. Rom. 3:23 is not a reference to all human beings.

You are inocorrect on this. There were many fathers and leaders in the early church who believed she sinned. I mentioned a few above. We can add Hilary of Poiters, Ambroasiaster and Chrysostom to the list also.

Care to post your sources on that?

It is false to say that Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit. No one in the NT nor the early church believed such a thing.

We read that the Spirit of the Most High overshadowed her, and that she conceived His child.

Are you saying she committed adultery?

What evidence do you have from the gospels where Jesus protects her from sin?

There is no evidence that she did sin! Not only that, God calls us all to be holy, and sin not. Mary, just like all of us, had the ability to choose not to sin.

I familar with this. I’m asking further on in the gospel accounts where Jesus protects her from sin?

The same way He “protects” you from sin, I expect.

i do to and the HS told me the opposite what He told you. So who is right?

Matt 18:17
tell it to the church;

 

[guanophore]

Because she didn’t come short of the glory of God. The glory of God resided in her womb.

That would mean that for her Romans 3:23 didn’t apply. But it is meant for all the rest of us.

There are a lot of people to which Rom 3:23 does not apply.

 

[guanophore]

That’s a good one I like that

Consider this from Irenaeus:

Just as Eve, wife of Adam, yet still a virgin, became by her disobedience the cause of death for herself and the whole human race, so Mary, too, espoused yet a Virgin, became by her obedience the cause of salvation for herself and the whole human race…

Now it’s interesting that Irenaeus includes Mary with the rest of the human race as receiving salvation from Jesus. Jesus paid the price for sinners. Hmmm guess that makes Mary a sinner.

No, it makes Mary saved! Transferred from darkness into light. She is not a sinner, but a saint!

Luke 1:41-46
Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”

Blessed, blessed among women!

 

[KJK80]

I believe it does raise in the middle just a little. It’s not flat but there is not a huge pronounced ‘A’ in the middle either…

Now, how can we tie my roof into Mary being (or not being) sinless so that we can claim this is on topic?

Or should we just blame it on dilerium and keep going?

How 'bout each side has holes in it that can create leaks…

Ok, I tried… LOL

The holes in your roof are like the holes in the Protestant faith without the Catholic Holy Tradition that confirms Mary’s Immaculate Conception? (OK, I had to get that in there somewhere… see now we’re both on topic with the subject and we got some Catholic and some non-Catholic in there).

Regardless, I would say the problem is at the seams of the roof. Which would mean you could attempt to use a foam strip between the seams… but this would probably require removing sheets, which could cause even more problems without replacing the screws.

The problem is that your roof is probably a very shallow pitch and if you had much snow or a decent amount of rain, most metal panels aren’t capable of handling these issues on a shallow pitch–especially over time. Which is why, most of the time, on a very shallow pitch (less than 2/12) it is suggested you use what’s called a snap lock or lock seam type panel to prevent these problems. Again, I’m assuming this is the issue… Again, you could probably try the foam, but you’re probably looking $100-200 just for the foam and it’s not guaranteed it will work if you have screw issues or trim issues as well… Not much of an easy way out I’m afraid. If you do have anyone look at it and you want a 2nd opinion, just msg me.

 

[Singinbeauty]

The holes in your roof are like the holes in the Protestant faith without the Catholic Holy Tradition that confirms Mary’s Immaculate Conception? (OK, I had to get that in there somewhere… see now we’re both on topic with the subject and we got some Catholic and some non-Catholic in there).

Regardless, I would say the problem is at the seams of the roof. Which would mean you could attempt to use a foam strip between the seams… but this would probably require removing sheets, which could cause even more problems without replacing the screws.

The problem is that your roof is probably a very shallow pitch and if you had much snow or a decent amount of rain, most metal panels aren’t capable of handling these issues on a shallow pitch–especially over time. Which is why, most of the time, on a very shallow pitch (less than 2/12) it is suggested you use what’s called a snap lock or lock seam type panel to prevent these problems. Again, I’m assuming this is the issue… Again, you could probably try the foam, but you’re probably looking $100-200 just for the foam and it’s not guaranteed it will work if you have screw issues or trim issues as well… Not much of an easy way out I’m afraid. If you do have anyone look at it and you want a 2nd opinion, just msg me.

You are so awesome, thank you.

I will let you know what I find out…

Ok, sorry, I know how everyone is SO interested in my roof but back to the topic of the thread…

Mary, sinless or not?