All have sinned.. including Mary.

[holy_wood]

Interesting point you bring up about how much detail the Scriptures give us about the construction etc of the ark. However, there is no such detail at all how Mary is supposedly an ark to.

The parallel is obvious…

Luke 1:56

56Mary stayed with Elizabeth for about three months and then returned home.

2 Samuel 6:11
11 The ark of the LORD remained in the house of Obed-Edom the Gittite for three months, and the LORD blessed him and his entire household.

1 Chronicles 13:14
14 The ark of God remained with the family of Obed-Edom in his house for three months, and the LORD blessed his household and everything he had.

Exodus 25:11-21 - the ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God’s Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh.

2 Sam. 6:7 - the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.

1 Chron. 13:9-10 - this is another account of Uzzah and the Ark. For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For Protestants to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible.

1 Chron. 15 and 16 - these verses show the awesome reverence the Jews had for the Ark - veneration, vestments, songs, harps, lyres, cymbals, trumpets.

Luke 1:41
41When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
2 Samuel 6:16
16 As the ark of the LORD was entering the City of David, Michal daughter of Saul watched from a window. And when she saw King David leaping and dancing before the LORD, she despised him in her heart.

Luke 1:43
43But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
2 Samuel 6:9
9 David was afraid of the LORD that day and said, “How can the ark of the LORD ever come to me?”

**
The Ark parallel in the book of Revelation**

Rev 11:19 - at this point in history, the Ark of the Old Covenant was not seen for six centuries (see 2 Macc. 2:7), and now it is finally seen in heaven. The Jewish people would have been absolutely amazed at this. However, John immediately passes over this fact and describes the “woman” clothed with the sun

Rev. 12:1. John is emphasizing that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and who, like the Old ark, is now worthy of veneration and praise. Also remember that Rev. 11:19 and Rev.12:1 are tied together because there was no chapter and verse at the time these texts were written. The “woman” that John is describing is Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Just as the moon reflects the light of the sun, so Mary, with the moon under her feet, reflects the glory of the Sun of Justice, Jesus Christ.

 

[Good_Fella]

Thanks for clarifying for me Good Fella. We see things the same way, I just needed you to do an adjustment on my lenses for me.

Talk about eloquent…definitely going to do some reading on Jacob of Sarug (better late than never).

You’re welcome. I figure I failed to make myself clear enough on the points you raised. I must have fogged the lenses.

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

 

[c659smith]

Interesting point you bring up about how much detail the Scriptures give us about the construction etc of the ark. However, there is no such detail at all how Mary is supposedly an ark to.

Again you are taking scripture out of context and if you read the bible as a whole document and not just passasges you will see the truth.

Mary is mentioned throughout the new testament and was not only His Mother but an important piece of His ministry. throughout His life.

His conception (Luke 1:2)
His development in the womb, including the fetal development of John the Baptist (Lk 1:43)
His birth (Lk 2:7)
Offering Him to God (Lk 2:22)
Early childhood (Lk 2:22-38)
His confirmation at 12 years old (Lk 2:49)
His start in public ministry and the first of his miracles, which she instigated. (Wedding at Cana Jn 2:3)
His death on Calvary (Jn 19:26)
The birth of the Church at the Pentecost (Acts 1:14).

Mary was a “born again” Christian who received the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost and spoke in tongues 2000 years before Pentecostals got the gift. (Acts 1:14, 2:3)

For example, the Ark of the Covenant carried the Word of God in the Old Testament. Mary also carried the word of God when she was pregnant with Jesus. The Ark of the Covenant disappears in Jer 3:16. The Ark of the Covenant resurfaces in Revelation 11:19 as the woman who bore the King of the Israelites who is the mother of all those who follow the lamb. The devil makes war on all her children who have the testimony of Jesus (Rev 12:17) We think God was quite clear about who the woman was in the passage.

Catholics believe Mary’s “Yes” undid Eve’s “No!”
Catholics see an important link between Mary in the New Testament and Eve in Genesis. (Gen 3:3-24) We believe Mary’s “Yes” to God and his plan of redemption, reversed Eve’s “No” and reversed Eve’s refusal to obey and cooperate with God. Mary’s “Yes” and cooperation with Grace blew away Eve’s “No” and fall from Grace. (Lk 1:2) Catholics think it is not by accident that Eve (the woman) came out of the body of Adam (the man), and that Jesus (the man/God) came out of the body of Mary (the woman). This view was put forth by St. Justin who lived from about 110 to 165 A.D. and is consistent with Paul’s comparison of Jesus to Adam. (1 Col 15:22, 45). Eve wanted to be all knowing, and ate from the “tree of knowledge”. Mary did not need to know the entire plan and at times didn’t understand what her son was doing (Mk 3:20). A chart of side-by-side Scripture references at the end of this article helps compare Mary to Eve.

Mary was a true servant. She went to Elizabeth’s place to do menial chores and housework for 3 months while Elizabeth’s pregnancy with John was advancing (Lk 1:56). That was the custom of the day, to do chores for a relative who was coming to term with her pregnancy. I can imagine Mary washing Elizabeth’s toilet area, cleaning the floor, and making meals while she knew she was carrying Jesus, the Saviour of the world, in her womb. What humility, what a servant! (Lk 1:39). Catholics think she still is a humble servant who serves Jesus tirelessly.

Does the Bible present Mary as the “Mother of God”?
After Jesus was born the Bible says:

“And going into the house they [the Magi] saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him” (Mt 2:11 my emphasis).

Let’s unpack that line a bit. The Bible calls her by her name, “Mary,” and by her title “mother” while the passage calls Jesus by the title “child,” which puts him in relation to her at the very moment the Magi worshipped him (as God). I think the Bible was trying to teach us who Mary is in relation to Jesus (God). This appears to be confirmed when Elizabeth said “Who am I that the mother of my Lord would come to me?” (Lk 1:43). Catholics think the title “Mother of God” is very Biblical. In a special way, she is mother of the incarnate God, who is fully God. Jesus didn’t become divine some time later in life. He was always God, and Mary gave birth to him as such. The Magi kneeled down and worshiped Jesus, while Mary, his mother, was holding God in her arms. Today, Catholics don’t have a problem kneeling in Mary’s presence either. She is as much with Jesus today, as she was on that day when she held him, while the Magi kneeled in her presence to worship of him. When we kneel in the presence of Mary it is because she is with her Son, Jesus. I saw a cool bumper sticker that said:

“Wise men still find Jesus with his mother.”

 

[robert_connor]

She was guilty of sin because Adam sinned.

Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

Did the free gift justify all men…which would mean all mankind will go to heaven. Or is St. Paul using this in the same sense as all men sin

 

[robert_connor]

I’m not going to judge whether YOU are born-again or not. That is for God to decide.

But I will say this… The RCC cannot make you born-again. It is a decision you have to make on your own.

If it’s a decision you have to make on your own, then you save yourself, not faith alone.

 

[c659smith]

Interesting point you bring up about how much detail the Scriptures give us about the construction etc of the ark. However, there is no such detail at all how Mary is supposedly an ark to.

Let us now compare the Ark of the covenant in the old testament to Mary, who Catholics believe is the new Ark.

The Ark of the Old Testament

Mary - The New Testament ----- Ark of the New Covenant​

The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex 25:10)

The Word became Flesh (John 1)​

The Ark carried the Word of God (Deut 10:1) The Ark carried the Old Covenant.

Mary carried the Word of God (Lk 2:38) Mary carried the New Covenant​

David says “Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?” (2 Sam 6:9)

Elizabeth says “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me” (Lk 1:43) (Mary, was pregnant with Jesus)​

When the Ark returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam 6:14)

The baby leaped for joy in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary came into Elizabeth’s presence carrying Jesus in her womb. (Lk 2 38)​

There I have set the ark in which is the covenant of the Lord that he made with his people Israel (2Ch 6:11)

Jesus is the new Covenant and he is in Mary’s womb, which makes Mary the ark of the New Covenant.​

Elizabeth’s husband Zachariah said "He has remembered his holy covenant (Lk 1:72) …

The cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood (Lk 22:20)​

Joshua summoned the twelve men from the Israelite, whom he had appointed, one from each tribe. Joshua said to them “Pass on before the ark of the Lord your God.” (Josh 4:4)

There were 12 stones like the 12 stars in Rev… The ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; … 12 :1 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman …and on her head a crown of twelve stars. (Rev 11:19) representing the tribes of Israel.​

in Joshua Chapter 6, the Israelites circle Jericho with the Ark of the Covenant and blowing horns for seven days before their victory.
In Revelation Chapter 8-11 before the introduction the Ark of the covenant (Chapter 12) the angels blow seven trumpets to herald the victory over Satan.​

The Ark of the Lord is a blessing to the house (2 Sam 6:11)

Mary goes into the hills and blesses Elizabeth’s house (Lk 2 38)​

The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)

Mary is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Mat 2:14)​

The Ark disappears (Jer 3:16) never to return until the New Testament Revelation story The Ark reappears as a lady who bears a son who is seated at the right hand of God . Her children are Christians. (Rev 11:19)​

It will not be like the covenant that I made…that they broke though I was their husband (Jer 31:31)

The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you; therefore the son to be born to you …will be called the Son of God (Lk 1:35) (The Holy Spirit was Mary’s spouse)

Do you need more???

 

[Good_Fella]

Let us now compare the Ark of the covenant in the old testament to Mary, who Catholics believe is the new Ark.

The Ark of the Old Testament

Mary - The New Testament ----- Ark of the New Covenant​

The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex 25:10)

The Word became Flesh (John 1)​

The Ark carried the Word of God (Deut 10:1) The Ark carried the Old Covenant.

Mary carried the Word of God (Lk 2:38) Mary carried the New Covenant​

David says “Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?” (2 Sam 6:9)

Elizabeth says “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me” (Lk 1:43) (Mary, was pregnant with Jesus)​

When the Ark returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam 6:14)

The baby leaped for joy in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary came into Elizabeth’s presence carrying Jesus in her womb. (Lk 2 38)​

There I have set the ark in which is the covenant of the Lord that he made with his people Israel (2Ch 6:11)

Jesus is the new Covenant and he is in Mary’s womb, which makes Mary the ark of the New Covenant.​

Elizabeth’s husband Zachariah said "He has remembered his holy covenant (Lk 1:72) …

The cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood (Lk 22:20)​

Joshua summoned the twelve men from the Israelite, whom he had appointed, one from each tribe. Joshua said to them “Pass on before the ark of the Lord your God.” (Josh 4:4)

There were 12 stones like the 12 stars in Rev… The ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; … 12 :1 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman …and on her head a crown of twelve stars. (Rev 11:19) representing the tribes of Israel.​

in Joshua Chapter 6, the Israelites circle Jericho with the Ark of the Covenant and blowing horns for seven days before their victory.
In Revelation Chapter 8-11 before the introduction the Ark of the covenant (Chapter 12) the angels blow seven trumpets to herald the victory over Satan.​

The Ark of the Lord is a blessing to the house (2 Sam 6:11)

Mary goes into the hills and blesses Elizabeth’s house (Lk 2 38)​

The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)

Mary is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Mat 2:14)​

The Ark disappears (Jer 3:16) never to return until the New Testament Revelation story The Ark reappears as a lady who bears a son who is seated at the right hand of God . Her children are Christians. (Rev 11:19)​

It will not be like the covenant that I made…that they broke though I was their husband (Jer 31:31)

The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you; therefore the son to be born to you …will be called the Son of God (Lk 1:35) (The Holy Spirit was Mary’s spouse)

Do you need more???

“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all, O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.”
St. Athanasius (ante A.D. 373)

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

 

[meandean]

Let us now compare the Ark of the covenant in the old testament to Mary, who Catholics believe is the new Ark.

The Ark of the Old Testament

Mary - The New Testament ----- Ark of the New Covenant​

The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex 25:10)

The Word became Flesh (John 1)​

The Ark carried the Word of God (Deut 10:1) The Ark carried the Old Covenant.

Mary carried the Word of God (Lk 2:38) Mary carried the New Covenant​

David says “Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?” (2 Sam 6:9)

Elizabeth says “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me” (Lk 1:43) (Mary, was pregnant with Jesus)​

When the Ark returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam 6:14)

The baby leaped for joy in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary came into Elizabeth’s presence carrying Jesus in her womb. (Lk 2 38)​

There I have set the ark in which is the covenant of the Lord that he made with his people Israel (2Ch 6:11)

Jesus is the new Covenant and he is in Mary’s womb, which makes Mary the ark of the New Covenant.​

Elizabeth’s husband Zachariah said "He has remembered his holy covenant (Lk 1:72) …

The cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood (Lk 22:20)​

Joshua summoned the twelve men from the Israelite, whom he had appointed, one from each tribe. Joshua said to them “Pass on before the ark of the Lord your God.” (Josh 4:4)

There were 12 stones like the 12 stars in Rev… The ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; … 12 :1 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman …and on her head a crown of twelve stars. (Rev 11:19) representing the tribes of Israel.​

in Joshua Chapter 6, the Israelites circle Jericho with the Ark of the Covenant and blowing horns for seven days before their victory.
In Revelation Chapter 8-11 before the introduction the Ark of the covenant (Chapter 12) the angels blow seven trumpets to herald the victory over Satan.​

The Ark of the Lord is a blessing to the house (2 Sam 6:11)

Mary goes into the hills and blesses Elizabeth’s house (Lk 2 38)​

The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)

Mary is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Mat 2:14)​

The Ark disappears (Jer 3:16) never to return until the New Testament Revelation story The Ark reappears as a lady who bears a son who is seated at the right hand of God . Her children are Christians. (Rev 11:19)​

It will not be like the covenant that I made…that they broke though I was their husband (Jer 31:31)

The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you; therefore the son to be born to you …will be called the Son of God (Lk 1:35) (The Holy Spirit was Mary’s spouse)

Do you need more???

interesting. i always wondered why you replaced jesus with mary. now i see from your own words… mary might have been LIKE the ark, but she could never BE the ark, that represented god.

 

[guanophore]

interesting. i always wondered why you replaced jesus with mary. now i see from your own words… mary might have been LIKE the ark, but she could never BE the ark, that represented god.

Catholics don’t “replace” Jesus with Mary, but we don’t separate her from Him, either. The Ark of the Old Covenant carried the special symbols of God’s presence. The Ark of the New Covenant carries that Presence Himself, that was forshadowed by the things in the Ark.

Just as the Magi came to Jesus with his mother, bowed down, and worshipped Him, so do Catholics. It does not deter us that she is there with him, and since we are in the presence of God made Man, we find it fitting to worship Him. She is not offended by this either.

 

[meandean]

Catholics don’t “replace” Jesus with Mary, but we don’t separate her from Him, either. The Ark of the Old Covenant carried the special symbols of God’s presence. The Ark of the New Covenant carries that Presence Himself, that was forshadowed by the things in the Ark.

Just as the Magi came to Jesus with his mother, bowed down, and worshipped Him, so do Catholics. It does not deter us that she is there with him, and since we are in the presence of God made Man, we find it fitting to worship Him. She is not offended by this either.

i am fully aware of what you are doing here. you call it honoring mary, i call it worshipping the creation. regardless of this way you are trying to prove, the bible points directly to jesus, not mary, whom you have deified. this is what god calls blasphemy, and it cheapens what his son did on the cross.and he will forgive you but you must turn from this pagan theory you so cling too.

 

[Claudius]

Roman Catholics… Why don’t you believe ALL (including Mary) have sinned? God said it… shouldn’t that be final?

Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I just don’t understand the mentality of protestant who want to try to book/chapter/verse an arguement to prove the Catholics aren’t Christians when all they really are doing is self excluding themselves from being Christians.

The Bible says, not that we need the bible to say it but it just happens to, that the Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth. Therefore, what the Catholic Church says is the truth and the Catholic Church says that Mary was and is sinless, as indeed we are all called to be after our conversion. To be against what the Catholic Church says is to be, according to the Bible, against the Truth. Also according to the Bible, Jesus is the Truth. Therefore, to reject what the Catholic Church says, according to the Bible, is to reject Jesus.

Now, I can certainly book/chapter/verse the section that states exactly what I have just said but won’t if be much more fun for all of you to actually open your bibles and READ for a change.

Just so we are clear though, the Bible is part of sacred tradition so I really don’t understand protestants who attack tradition (the handing on of faith to another) quoting the Bible since it seems to me that they don’t believe in it. They even call the Bible the most holy thing in their church. Sad from my point of view, since Jesus being God in the sacrement at Mass is the most holy and important thing in the Church and indeed life.

 

[Claudius]

i am fully aware of what you are doing here. you call it honoring mary, i call it worshipping the creation. regardless of this way you are trying to prove, the bible points directly to jesus, not mary, whom you have deified. this is what god calls blasphemy, and it cheapens what his son did on the cross.and he will forgive you but you must turn from this pagan theory you so cling too.

You know, sometime I get this great feeling to tell all the protestants to put their bibles down and pick up a dictionary. Clearly there are a lot of words that they just have no clue about. It is almost like we are speaking two different langauges that are unitelligeble. Protestants actually go around equating “pray to” with “worship” but then go into court and pray to the judge all the time. Next time you go into court, pick up any document given to a judge and you will see at the bottom the official prayer to the judge that he grant your request. That is ok for protestants, oh but no praying to my guardian angel, that is worship. So then, why are protestants worshiping their judges, and governors and presidents? They will counter that they aren’t but they are by their difinition. Catholics see no problem of course since we have a difiniton for prayer, and worship, and adore and praise, and not just lumping the definition of prayer onto them all.

 

[Claudius]

i am fully aware of what you are doing here. you call it honoring mary, i call it worshipping the creation. regardless of this way you are trying to prove, the bible points directly to jesus, not mary, whom you have deified. this is what god calls blasphemy, and it cheapens what his son did on the cross.and he will forgive you but you must turn from this pagan theory you so cling too.

another thing that gets me is the fact of protestants claiming that he bible says this or the bible says that but never actually read the thing. The bible is a thing after all. I am shocked an appalled by the protestants who actually worship their bible in place of God. Then they have the nerve to attack Catholics for recognizing the order that God gave to us: that Jesus is God, king of all creation and therefore his mother is to be honored. Oh, but protestants are now going to lump the definition of honor with that of prayer like they did with worship and get all screwed up again.

What this really points to is blind anti-Catholic hatred. They need the Catholic Church to be wrong so they make things up. Tomorrow he will be telling us that all Catholics are going to hell because the Pope combed his hair the wrong direction.

 

[meandean]

You know, sometime I get this great feeling to tell all the protestants to put their bibles down and pick up a dictionary. Clearly there are a lot of words that they just have no clue about. It is almost like we are speaking two different langauges that are unitelligeble. Protestants actually go around equating “pray to” with “worship” but then go into court and pray to the judge all the time. Next time you go into court, pick up any document given to a judge and you will see at the bottom the official prayer to the judge that he grant your request. That is ok for protestants, oh but no praying to my guardian angel, that is worship. So then, why are protestants worshiping their judges, and governors and presidents? They will counter that they aren’t but they are by their difinition. Catholics see no problem of course since we have a difiniton for prayer, and worship, and adore and praise, and not just lumping the definition of prayer onto them all.

you see, sometimes i want to tell those catholics to put down their sacred traditions and pick up a bible and read gods word. but they won’t, when you have heard his word, he convicts you, but you won’t listen. you quickly want to make his word obsolete to enhance you human theory. repent and come back to your first love.

 

[Claudius]

you see, sometimes i want to tell those catholics to put down their sacred traditions and pick up a bible and read gods word. but they won’t, when you have heard his word, he convicts you, but you won’t listen. you quickly want to make his word obsolete to enhance you human theory. repent and come back to your first love.

This is just amazing. You are telling a person who read the Bible completely at that age of 10 and who reads it at least once a year to read the Bible. I am not sure I can read it more often then I do. I will also mention that I have read the Bible in the original langauges and several others besides. This is why I harp on vocabulary so much. If you don’t know what the word means, you can’t understand the meaning of the sentence.

But seriosly, now that I have stopped laughing, why do you protestants feel that it is sinful to pass on the Christian faith to others? Why do you separate the Bible from Christian faith? Why do you feel that it is wrong to teach other about what we have recieved from Jesus? I just don’t understand how you can call yourself a Christian but reject anyone who wants to give the Christian faith to you, give a Bible to you and you refuse to pass the faith on if you ever even get some. I don’t see how you can call yourself a Christian and replace God with sheets of paper. I don’t see how you can call yourself a Christian and not READ your Bible if you are able. Would you please explain that to me, and be kind and serious about it, I don’t want to laugh that hard again.

 

[Agnes_Ainsworth]

you see, sometimes i want to tell those catholics to put down their sacred traditions and pick up a bible and read gods word. but they won’t, when you have heard his word, he convicts you, but you won’t listen. you quickly want to make his word obsolete to enhance you human theory. repent and come back to your first love.

The Catholic Church IS the living Bible. She had to be when the times were such that bibles were hand written and each one was so precious, before the existence of the printing press. Besides most of the population were illiterate anyway. The world is full of examples of how liturgy, the Sacraments, art, history reflected Biblical teaching before Martin Luther came along with the greatest heresy in the history of Christ’s Church.

Where in the bible did Jesus say that Scripture only was the source of Truth? Where did He say that Christianity would only start when every individual was able to read and discern truth for himself? The bible says that the Holy Spirit will lead the CHURCH into all Truth. There is NO contradiction between the teaching of the Catholic Church and the Bible. If the Bible was so easy to understand why do protestant denominations keep splitting asunder with every one teaching that they are correct? Why is there not one doctrine common to them all, except that the Roman Catholic Church’s version is false but all theirs are true? “What is Truth?” asked Pilate. The reason his words were in Scripture were to teach that Truth is available for teaching and admonishing and a Church is necessary to give it.

The Catholic Church has existed for 2000 years and its teachings are clearly expounded, shown how they developed from the understanding of Scripture and what is more, lived, as shown in history with mystical revelations to saints and holy people with direct prophecies, heavenly miracles. These do not have to be believed by anyone but non the less were promised by our saviour Jesus Christ to His Church. It is noteworthy that at the Protestant Reformation, many of the reformers denied all Charismata and miracles but behold the advent of the Pentecostal Churches recognised and welcomed the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit. Praise and thank God that many protestants now recognize that miracles happen through prayers of intercession; believe in the fundamental teaching of the Eucharist reiterated three times by the Gospel writer when some Jews questioned the teaching then turned away because it was too hard to take. Protestants fail to identify themselves with these Jews when they refuse to believe the literal truth of the True Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

 

[meandean]

This is just amazing. You are telling a person who read the Bible completely at that age of 10 and who reads it at least once a year to read the Bible. I am not sure I can read it more often then I do. I will also mention that I have read the Bible in the original langauges and several others besides. This is why I harp on vocabulary so much. If you don’t know what the word means, you can’t understand the meaning of the sentence.

But seriosly, now that I have stopped laughing, why do you protestants feel that it is sinful to pass on the Christian faith to others? Why do you separate the Bible from Christian faith? Why do you feel that it is wrong to teach other about what we have recieved from Jesus? I just don’t understand how you can call yourself a Christian but reject anyone who wants to give the Christian faith to you, give a Bible to you and you refuse to pass the faith on if you ever even get some. I don’t see how you can call yourself a Christian and replace God with sheets of paper. I don’t see how you can call yourself a Christian and not READ your Bible if you are able. Would you please explain that to me, and be kind and serious about it, I don’t want to laugh that hard again.

ding ding ding, winner, winner chicken dinner. all your achievements and plaques on the wall are empty. your gold altars and marble statues are of no avail to me.its all a big phasad .anyway, you cant mix salt and pepper and still call it salt.how much more will you add to the gospel message and call it truth? if you have read the bible, then you would be familiar with galations. paul fought hard to keep the gospel pure, but the judiazers (rcc) polluted it.now i find it very hard to believe anyone on this site is sharing jesus. every where i’ve been, here, has led me every where else but jesus. now why is that? it is because you have replaced god .there is alittle bit of god,with a dash of jesus, a couple of shakes of the saints, a can of mary, and top it off with what the pope said in the chair of peter. thats the good news??? .

 

[Goth_Catholic]

ding ding ding, winner, winner chicken dinner. all your achievements and plaques on the wall are empty. your gold altars and marble statues are of no avail to me.
And your holier then thou attitude isn’t welcome here.
its all a big phasad .anyway, you cant mix salt and pepper and still call it salt.how much more will you add to the gospel message and call it truth?
And you can’t take away the salt and still claim it’s there. How much more will you take away from the gospel and call it truth?
if you have read the bible, then you would be familiar with galations. paul fought hard to keep the gospel pure, but the judiazers (rcc) polluted it.
Wrong.
now i find it very hard to believe anyone on this site is sharing jesus. every where i’ve been, here, has led me every where else but jesus. now why is that?
Because Satan hates the Catholic Church my friend. He will do everything in his power to keep it’s truth hidden from you.
it is because you have replaced god .
It is because Satan wants you to belive that.
there is alittle bit of god,with a dash of jesus, a couple of shakes of the saints, a can of mary, and top it off with what the pope said in the chair of peter. thats the good news??? .

That’s very good news, but you have the recipe wrong. God’s the can, add a couple shakes of Jesus, a dash of Mary, a little bit of the saints, and top it off with ex cathedra. Makes for a better Heaven pie then Protestant bible cake. You can eat your words, I’ll feed on the truth.

 

[justasking4]

Let us now compare the Ark of the covenant in the old testament to Mary, who Catholics believe is the new Ark.

The Ark of the Old Testament

Mary - The New Testament ----- Ark of the New Covenant​

The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex 25:10)

The Word became Flesh (John 1)​

The Ark carried the Word of God (Deut 10:1) The Ark carried the Old Covenant.

Mary carried the Word of God (Lk 2:38) Mary carried the New Covenant​

David says “Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?” (2 Sam 6:9)

Elizabeth says “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me” (Lk 1:43) (Mary, was pregnant with Jesus)​

When the Ark returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam 6:14)

The baby leaped for joy in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary came into Elizabeth’s presence carrying Jesus in her womb. (Lk 2 38)​

There I have set the ark in which is the covenant of the Lord that he made with his people Israel (2Ch 6:11)

Jesus is the new Covenant and he is in Mary’s womb, which makes Mary the ark of the New Covenant.​

Elizabeth’s husband Zachariah said "He has remembered his holy covenant (Lk 1:72) …

The cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood (Lk 22:20)​

Joshua summoned the twelve men from the Israelite, whom he had appointed, one from each tribe. Joshua said to them “Pass on before the ark of the Lord your God.” (Josh 4:4)

There were 12 stones like the 12 stars in Rev… The ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; … 12 :1 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman …and on her head a crown of twelve stars. (Rev 11:19) representing the tribes of Israel.​

in Joshua Chapter 6, the Israelites circle Jericho with the Ark of the Covenant and blowing horns for seven days before their victory.
In Revelation Chapter 8-11 before the introduction the Ark of the covenant (Chapter 12) the angels blow seven trumpets to herald the victory over Satan.​

The Ark of the Lord is a blessing to the house (2 Sam 6:11)

Mary goes into the hills and blesses Elizabeth’s house (Lk 2 38)​

The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)

Mary is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Mat 2:14)​

The Ark disappears (Jer 3:16) never to return until the New Testament Revelation story The Ark reappears as a lady who bears a son who is seated at the right hand of God . Her children are Christians. (Rev 11:19)​

It will not be like the covenant that I made…that they broke though I was their husband (Jer 31:31)

The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you; therefore the son to be born to you …will be called the Son of God (Lk 1:35) (The Holy Spirit was Mary’s spouse)

Do you need more???

I think this is enough.

 

[guanophore]

i am fully aware of what you are doing here. you call it honoring mary, i call it worshipping the creation. regardless of this way you are trying to prove, the bible points directly to jesus, not mary, whom you have deified. this is what god calls blasphemy, and it cheapens what his son did on the cross.and he will forgive you but you must turn from this pagan theory you so cling too.

Gosh…such hostility. With all due respect, you really have no idea what I do (or don’t do) with regard to Mary. Do you have a problem with honoring Mary? Do you think that the Magi should not have knelt down and worshipped Christ because she was in the room? Do you think that her presence there with him “took away” from Jesus?

God is glorfied in His people, and especially His mother, since He was the perfect Jewish boy, kept all the commandments, and honored his mother and father. If she is good enough for Him, she is good enough for me.

WHat “pagan theory” are you speaking about here?