"all opposition ( to Mormonism ) comes ultimately from Satan"

[Anna_Scott]

LDS Missionaries are skilled in presenting lessons to potential converts. They know family & friends will often object to the lessons. So, early on, the missionaries present passages of Scripture such as the following:

Mark 4:13-20 (ESV):

13 And he said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? 14 **The sower sows the word.

15 And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. **16 And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy.

17 And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. 18 And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, 19 but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 20 But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold."

The missionaries will say they are sowing the good seed of God’s Word; & objections from family and friends are the work of Satan, trying to take away the Word of God.

This was presented to me by Mormon missionaries around 1996. So, this is not an outdated belief.

Anna

I hope that you realize that catholic popes said some humdingers in the past. What to do? Likewise for protestant reformers. People are not perfect. I am sure that Paul said some humdingers also, it is just that we have no record of it. I am sure that he said much more than what we have in the new testament.

I do not doubt that other religions have said things that were clearly not of God.

However, there are strict standards for those who call themselves “prophets.” Prophets can never be wrong in any revelation they claim came from God. If they are wrong, even once, they fail the Biblical test of a true prophet.

My daughter is a lds missionary at this moment and she is not very skilled in presenting lessons. Most missionaries are not that skilled nor do they know that family and friends will often object to the lessons. They have a message and they want to present it. Many young men and women are serving in foreign countries attempting to speak the native language. How skilled can they be after learning a language for some weeks before presenting the discussions to a lds investigator?

In my particular case, I took all lessons with Mormon missionaries, at the Mormon Bishop’s home, with the Mormon Bishop present.

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

1. Jesus did not go to America. He was ressurrected and went into heaven.
2. People do not become gods when they die.
3. God does not “live on another planet”.

Mormonism: Not Christianity.

SnakeMauler,

Welcome to CAF!

I like your style: short and to the point.

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

that depends upon whether they are saying 'thus saith the lord" and their words are canonized, or whether they are expressing their opinions. . .

If a prophet says, “God revealed to me”; does that count as a God given revelation or does the prophet have to say, “thus saith the lord”?

Keep in mind that in the Bible, one who “presumes to speak a word” in God’s name is acting as a prophet, regardless of whether or not he says “thus saith the lord.” (Deuteronomy 13:20)

. . .prophets have never been perfect. In fact, all during the ot times (and the nt times, for that matter,) the scriptures have been rather scrupulous in noting that the prophets all had their problems–they all had faults. They weren’t god’s puppets, becoming instantly unable to do anything but what god instructed them to do. They had free will, they had brains, and they had opinions. Sometimes those opinions were not correct. However, when they spoke as prophets, and their words were accepted as scripture, that’s when they were 'truly prophets recieving revelations from god.". .

The Old Testament reveals a very high standard for prophets. Please note that I am not advocating the stoning of anyone.

Deuteronomy 13 (ESV):
1 "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams.

For the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him.

5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

Deuteronomy 18:
20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?’—

22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

Do you disagree with these passages regarding the test of a true prophet?

If you disagree with the Biblical test of a true prophet, please provide your source for the test of a true prophet in Mormonism.

. . .noah was a prideful, arrogant twit.

Abraham was a liar.

Lot was terminally stupid–and was not really a moral giant. (he wasn’t much of a prophet, either, even if angels appeared to him.)

then there is samson, who should have been a prophet, but who used his freedom to choose extremely unwisely.

Isaac–had some major parenting problems,

and jacob his son was a cheat–and compared to him isaac was father of the year.

Moses was a murderer and had a bit of a problem with pride, himself.

Paul was stubborn and obnoxious,

peter was, in spite of his name, a bit of a vacilator and more than a bit of a coward…

How does this relate to whether or not a person is a true prophet? . . .

. . .as i read the scriptures i have often wondered why the stories of these men included their character flaws so clearly. I think it’s because of this** insistance you have that prophets be god**, rather than men through whom god sometimes speaks. Not ‘always’ speaks. Not ‘unable to have incorrect opinions and prone to express them,’ but ‘when god speaks to mankind, he does it through a prophet’. . . .

When have I ever insisted that prophets be god? Never.

The idea of men becoming gods is part of Mormonism. It is not a belief held by Protestants or Catholics.

. . .god choosing a man to speak through is what makes him a prophet. Doesn’t make him perfect. Doesn’t make him sinless. Doesn’t make him omnscient. It simply means that sometimes god speaks through him. . . .

Anyone can claim to be a prophet. Again, what is the Mormon test of a true prophet? Please provide your source.

Anna

 

[KathleenGee]

A true prophet consistently speaks the truth, and speaks with the same spirit of God found throughout the Old and New Testament…in the totality of the One, True God…no bits or pieces taken out and turned into a different direction, thus fragmenting the Body of Christ.

If any Word of God is taken out of context, the unity of faith is broken, in other words, people suffer needlessly…

Oneness with God is also paralleled with oneness with neighbor…it is the Truth that sets us free…

 

[zerinus]

I have said that many times. I think Mormonism is of the devil (ultimately), as are all non-Catholic churches.

Soooooo…how do we suggest to groups that believe they are the one true church, like the Mormons, that it is somehow inconsistent for them to believe as we do?

I am all for postulating reasons to be Catholic and not LDS. This is not a good reason. If I were LDS, my faith would not be weakened by hearing that Mormons say, as they must if they believe in the devil, that other churches are ultimately under Satan’s influence. As a Catholic, it does not make me perceive the LDS Church as less true, because of such a belief. I have no thought of leaving the Catholic Church at this time (and by God’s grace I never will), but if I did, knowledge that the Mormons have this belief would make me more, not less open to their message.

I don’t get what is so sinister, or illogical about this belief, if Mormons indeed admit to it?

Rory

Mormons don’t believe that “other churches are ultimately under Satan’s influence,” and certainly not the Catholic Church. Don’t take notice of what those people have been saying. They distort and misrepresent what Mormonism teaches.

 

[SteveVH]

Anyone can claim to be a prophet. Again, what is the Mormon test of a true prophet? Please provide your source.

Dianaiad & Zerinus:

I would really be interested in an honest answer to Anna’s question. We are talking about false prophesies here, not character flaws. Trying to prove that true prophets have personal weaknesses is not the same as maintaining that a “prophet” who give false prophesies can still be a true prophet.

 

[KathleenGee]

True prophets are faithful not only to God but to His moral life He has given us.

 

[SteveVH]

True prophets are faithful not only to God but to His moral life He has given us.

Are you trying to say that a prophet has no sin or weakness in his life? I’m a little confused. Can’t put my finger on it at the moment but somewhere in scripture there is a saying that “even a righteous man sins seven times a day” or something to that effect.

 

[KathleenGee]

Steve,

Thanks for my need to clarify.

Serious, grave and repetitious sin.

 

[kimmielittle]

Hiyas

Satan hides behind many names, today.

Abortion
Euthanasia
Eugenics
Destruction of Families core values
Destruction of Religion
Corrupt governmental infringements upon liberty in the guise of liberty

Let’s call Satan by his true names.

I will walk arm and arm - together - with those against today’s …Satan.

I may disagree with different Church doctrines and I have … ask any LDS member here ]…But I recognize who today’s Satan is and I cherish the help of ALL religious in combating him.

As always, just my thoughts

 

[Anna_Scott]

Hiyas

Satan hides behind many names, today.

Abortion
Euthanasia
Eugenics
Destruction of Families core values
Destruction of Religion
Corrupt governmental infringements upon liberty in the guise of liberty

Let’s call Satan by his true names.

I will walk arm and arm - together - with those against today’s …Satan.

I may disagree with different Church doctrines and I have … ask any LDS member here ]…But I recognize who today’s Satan is and I cherish the help of ALL religious in combating him.

As always, just my thoughts

kimmielittle,

I always appreciate your posts.

Anna

 

[SunnaB16]

Theres no point in re-posting this, but ill do it anyway…

REMEMBER GALATIANS 1:8,9.

“Even if an alleged resurrected personage…” etc

 

[Strevel]

I was a Mormon and recognize that there are big self serving double standards that exist in the Mormon faith. I am so glad that I left the Mormon faith.

I will share that Mormons believe that Christ has a physical body and right now has hundred of thousands of wives having spirit babies to populate his worlds… funny thing is, I am not joking. Drop me an email if you don’t believe me. They believe that he has become a God.

Don Pax Vobiscum

The lds church has distanced itself from the statements that were made in the past. In fact, what McConkie said was criticized by the leaders at that time. I am sure that we can go into the past and cherrypick what catholic bishops, popes, cardinals have said about protestants. We need to remember that catholics and reformers were spilling each others blood in Europe.

But I can say that the amount of persecution that the lds church receives today on the internet and in books is satan inspired. Of course constructive criticism is one thing…but the hateful criticism and remarks are quite another thing.

 

[peary1]

Answersplease:
As far as I am concerned, Mormonism comes from the mouth of Satan himself. Touche

 

[Strevel]

The Mormon Church is distancing itself from previous pronouncements that we (Catholics) are the “Whore of the Earth” and “The Anti-Christ”. Even tho the LDS Church has not said anything to cancel those pronouncements of belief they are letting time pass. However, the LDS Missionaries still to this very minute still share their fully understood to be untrue propaganda about us towards their own ends of converting our members to their Church.

Don in Las Vegas

 

[Anna_Scott]

I do think we need to await responses from the LDS forum members on questions we have given them.

I do believe we are to conduct these discussions in a respectful manner, without insults.

If we make a claim about the beliefs or actions of the Mormon church, we need to provide a source for our claim.

I really don’t want to see the discussion turn into an exchange of insults. Christ called us to love one another.

Anna

 

[SnakeMauler]

SnakeMauler,

Welcome to CAF!

I like your style: short and to the point.

Anna

Thank you very much for the welcome. I just feel like, as a Catholic, thats all I really need to know and will save me much unnecessary debate.

 

[Answersplease]

Don’t take notice of what those people have been saying. They distort and misrepresent what Mormonism teaches.

Zerinus is a sola scriptura Mormon. If it’s not in the standard works, the blinders go up. It’s fun to watch.

Zerinus likes to play these games, and then pretends he understands Catholic beliefs better than Catholics.

:yup:
And Zerinus has been informed of this on many occasions yet persists in misrepresenting the Catholic Church.

These “deliberate attempts” to misrepresent authentic Catholic teaching are duly noted, yet again, Zerinus. Christ said, “This IS my body.” He did not say it was a symbol of His body. And he used *wine *

to say “this IS my blood.” He didn’t use water. So the LDS “sacrament” isn’t even an authentic *symbol *of it.

 

[why_me]

I was a Mormon and recognize that there are big self serving double standards that exist in the Mormon faith. I am so glad that I left the Mormon faith.

I will share that Mormons believe that Christ has a physical body and right now has hundred of thousands of wives having spirit babies to populate his worlds… funny thing is, I am not joking. Drop me an email if you don’t believe me. They believe that he has become a God.

Don Pax Vobiscum

What does it mean to be a bride of christ in the catholic faith?

 

[why_me]

The Mormon Church is distancing itself from previous pronouncements that we (Catholics) are the “Whore of the Earth” and “The Anti-Christ”. Even tho the LDS Church has not said anything to cancel those pronouncements of belief they are letting time pass. However, the LDS Missionaries still to this very minute still share their fully understood to be untrue propaganda about us towards their own ends of converting our members to their Church.

Don in Las Vegas

Mormon missionaries do the following: give people interested their interpretation of the gospel and why there was a need for a restoration. They do not p(name removed by moderator)oint the catholic faith and say: the catholic church is the whore of babylon. They would be disciplined or sent home for doing so. However they do go over why there was a need for a restoration. And of course, they also may discuss the reformation and why that wasn’t enough.

As I said, if one has a restorationist church, it means that that church must come up with good reasons why god would need to restore his church upon the earth.