"all opposition ( to Mormonism ) comes ultimately from Satan"

[Answersplease]

( color and emphasis added )

catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp

Mormon Stumpers

Many Mormons, including their hierarchy, look upon any criticism—regardless of how honest and sincere—as perverseness inspired by the Evil One. But these same individuals ignore their own past (and present) attacks on Christian churches. You might like to point out a few of these to those Mormons who say their church “never attacks other churches.”
…

1. “The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon” (Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, Orson Pratt, n. 6, 84).
2. “All the priests who adhere to the sectarian [Christian] religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels” (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith, ed. Vol. 1, n. 4, 60).
3. [Under the heading, “Church of the Devil,” Apostle Bruce R. McConkie lists:] “The Roman Catholic Church specifically—singled out, set apart, described, and designated as being ‘most abominable above all other churches’ (I Ne. 13:5)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, 129).
4. “Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Morm. 8; Moro. 8)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Bruce R. McConkie, 177).

Oh no!!!

 

[why_me]

Answersplease:
The lds church has distanced itself from the statements that were made in the past. In fact, what McConkie said was criticized by the leaders at that time. I am sure that we can go into the past and cherrypick what catholic bishops, popes, cardinals have said about protestants. We need to remember that catholics and reformers were spilling each others blood in Europe.

But I can say that the amount of persecution that the lds church receives today on the internet and in books is satan inspired. Of course constructive criticism is one thing…but the hateful criticism and remarks are quite another thing.

 

[kimmielittle]

Of course constructive criticism is one thing…but the hateful criticism and remarks are quite another thing.

 

[Answersplease]

We need to remember that catholics and reformers were spilling each others blood in Europe.

 

[Answersplease]

From the thread: **The Catholic Church not a force for good in the World… **
The thread was started by “why me”:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=395194

Quote from “why me”:

For many people in this world, the catholic church is not a force for good in the world. And why should be asked.

Quote from “TheosisM”:

he never ceases to degrade the Catholic Church, so I really wasn’t surprised when I saw this thread. :Roll Eyes:

Quote from “why me”:

Attack the poster but say nothing of the debate. Nice one Paul. Have you ever thought that you may also be contributing to the negative attitude that the catholic church has in the world by such posts? I have never seen much love in your posts and yet, the catholic church is a church of love. What happened?

Quote from “why me”:

Another attack on the poster…
I just brought it to people’s attention to get discussion. Unfortunately, personal attacks seem to be a better way for certain catholics to do.

 

[Answersplease]

From “Mormon Stumpers”

…all opposition comes ultimately from Satan.

catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp

But I can say that the amount of persecution that the lds church receives today on the internet and in books is satan inspired.

From “Mormon Stumpers”

So, if you do offer a question or a criticism, be prepared for this reaction.

catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp

 

[kimmielittle]

Hiyas

Yeppers!! I’m aware of why_me’s Posts.

I was using this statement to call to mind

                 Originally Posted by **why me**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6151364#post6151364)                 
             *Of course constructive criticism is one thing...but the hateful criticism and remarks are quite another thing.*

He/ she has seen me defend my Church with Mormons
*

 

[ParkerD]

Kimmielittle,

Good morning and have a wonderful and blessed New Year.

Answerplease,
I suppose you realize that the quote you put in your title was from two Catholic writers.

Other readers,
Please be aware of two important concepts:

1–The use of the word “damnation” is based on the following contexts:

Mosiah 16: 11
11 If they be good, to the resurrection of endless life and happiness; and if they be evil, to the resurrection of endless damnation, being delivered up to the devil, who hath subjected them, which is damnation—
John 5: 29
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
3 Ne. 26: 5
5 If they be good, to the resurrection of everlasting life; and if they be evil, to the resurrection of damnation; being on a parallel, the one on the one hand and the other on the other hand, according to the mercy, and the justice, and the holiness which is in Christ, who was before the world began.

To place oneself in the pervasive influence of the devil and the worldliness that Satan showers on the world, is to place oneself out of the pure influence of Christ. Christ suffered the atonement to redeem all mankind who will choose redemption, and to bring “everlasting life” (eternal life with God the Father) to those who choose to allow Christ to change their souls and change their lives through the sanctification and the purification that come to those who sincerely repent throughout their lives. Christ becomes their Shepherd. No one else has that role–only Christ, without a representative to stand in the place of Him.

All mankind will be resurrected. Some will not have chosen to allow Christ to be their Shepherd with all of their heart, loving God with all their heart, might, mind, and strength. They will be resurrected, and many will inherit a condition of “heaven” like the angels, but they will not have placed themselves with all their heart into the shaping influence of Jesus, so they will have limited their own progress which He wished to give them.

1. The use of the word “Babylon” is symbolic of the pervasive influence of Satan, who does all he can to interrupt the progress of humankind toward following Christ with all their heart and soul. Readers can read the Book of Revelation to find many references to “Babylon”. See, for example, Revelation 14:8.

Christ wants all of us to change our lives and become changed, sanctified, purified, and fully prepared to stand in the presence of God the Father having been brought into likeness with Jesus Christ because of what He is able to do for those who allow themselves to be changed by Him. He can’t do that ultimately if we try and use the world’s ways to do it. That simply will not work. We have to give Him all of our hearts, and trust Him with our faith and our best effort to “be like Him.”

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Peace to all, and may we all be peace-bringers.

 

[Answersplease]

Answerplease,
I suppose you realize that the quote you put in your title was from two Catholic writers.

catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp

[/quote]

 

[Marie5890]

In general I dont think many people realize the intense opposition that the Catholic Church has faced in American history. There is a reason why JFK’s election to the presidency is such a historical moment. He was Catholic, and the opposition had been huge thru out the years. The Mormon opposition and anti-Catholic sentiments were part of a larger attitude.

 

[TheLastProfit]

It’s hypocritical to claim that opposition to the mormon church is inspired by satin and to use such a claim to criticize the Catholic Church. It is similar claims endorsed by the Catholics that have caused them so much criticism.

 

[dianaiad]

catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp

Mormon Stumpers

Many Mormons, including their hierarchy, look upon any criticism—regardless of how honest and sincere—as perverseness inspired by the Evil One. But these same individuals ignore their own past (and present) attacks on Christian churches. You might like to point out a few of these to those Mormons who say their church “never attacks other churches.”
…

1. “The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon” (Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, Orson Pratt, n. 6, 84).
2. “All the priests who adhere to the sectarian [Christian] religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels” (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith, ed. Vol. 1, n. 4, 60).
3. [Under the heading, “Church of the Devil,” Apostle Bruce R. McConkie lists:] “The Roman Catholic Church specifically—singled out, set apart, described, and designated as being ‘most abominable above all other churches’ (I Ne. 13:5)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, 129).
4. “Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Morm. 8; Moro. 8)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Bruce R. McConkie, 177).

Interesting. Look how far back you had to go to get these quotes, and look how dishonest you were in including the quote from Bruce R. McConkie regarding the “Church of the Devil” item—when you KNOW, it having been mentioned several times within the last few days, that the CoJCoLDS came down like a wall of bricks on McConkie for writing that one, and made him CHANGE it in all future editions of his book.

As to the last quote, I’d say that you need to take a closer look at the context.

But I’ll keep saying this: y’all have to go back considerably over a century to find something that can possibly be interpreted as anti-anything. Ya’ll ALSO find the same quotes–the same, less than ten or fifteen quotes–which works out to about one quote per decade or so of our existance. Would you care to tell me how THAT justifies the literally thousands of anti-Mormon **** that is published every year?

As long as your sidebar blatantly advertises anti-Mormon (and anti-Islam, anti-JW, anti-Oprah Winfrey[and that one REALLY has me going hmmn…]) for sale right here on CAF, I think you can understand that I’m not terribly impressed with your dredging up century and a half old quotes—and quotes that the church made the author fix.

Please. Find something a little newer. YOu know, like—within my lifetime? Or yours?

 

[dianaiad]

I didn’t bring up the Mormon wars in Missouri, Utah, and Illinois, or the Mountain Meadow massacre and cover up, so don’t bring that stuff into this particular thread.

You just, uhmn…did.

And you did it in a manner that intimates that Mormons were entirely to blame, that Mormons were the perpetrators of all the violence, and that those on the ‘other’ side were innocents.

You really don’t want to do that, Answerplease. You really don’t. Given what was done TO us, the fact that the only atrocity that can be laid at the feet of the Mormons is the MMM is rather amazing. Catholics can’t say this…and as horrific as it was (and it was wrong on every level there can be) at least with the MMM we can prove that the massacre was done against the orders of BY–and that the ‘coverup’ was done, not by BY and the church, but by the non-Mormon governer and the army.

Catholics have a little trouble with that, throughout their history. Many of the atrocities committed against heretics and Protestants were done at the direct order/connivance of a Pope or some Cardinal who was later praised for his actions.

 

[aquabatix]

So just because a quote is older means that it is wrong or outdated? Well then. We better get rid of all writtings and talks from past leaders. There goes D&C, all the sermons and talks, discourses and perhaps even the scriptures themselves!

I’ve seen quotes from over 1000 years ago used on this forum to defame the RCC and that seemed just fine. These quotes came from the general authority of the lds church, some even from the prophet. You can’t have it both ways; some things that the prophet said are great and others he just didn’t mean or don’t count.

 

[catholic-rcia]

The lds church has distanced itself from the statements that were made in the past. In fact, what McConkie said was criticized by the leaders at that time. I am sure that we can go into the past and cherrypick what catholic bishops, popes, cardinals have said about protestants. We need to remember that catholics and reformers were spilling each others blood in Europe.

But I can say that the amount of persecution that the lds church receives today on the internet and in books is satan inspired. Of course constructive criticism is one thing…but the hateful criticism and remarks are quite another thing.

What about two Lds Missionaries approaching me as I walk into the Catholic Church in Logan Utah and ask me why I am going in? Then proceed to tell me about how my Church failed? I have been here for eleven years I could comment on this more if you like. They did come to Bible study with me, but they kept pointing at their own books so I don’t think they got anything out od it. But it was good to have them for awhile.

Its not just about comments made in the past. You know that, right?

 

[KathleenGee]

There are probably 100 years old+ materials in Mormon book stores like what I had encountered recently in 2004 or 5.

The LDS still puts out alot of material about the abomination church and the corrupt believers…

Who is right and who is wrong bears no fruit…because condemnation doesn’t.

It is not about us…it is about Christ. We emptying ourselves to Him and allowing Him to live through us to serve all people…

As Mary said 2000 years ago, ‘Yes, thy will be done!’

After all, each day we live is taking us closer to the day of our death…and we do not know our last day…so it is better to turn the other cheek and be in Christ’s love.

 

[youngsaint]

It’s hypocritical to claim that opposition to the mormon church is inspired by satin and to use such a claim to criticize the Catholic Church. It is similar claims endorsed by the Catholics that have caused them so much criticism.

Where have you heard that catholics “endorse criticism to other church”? The church actually teaches that one who sincerely believes that one is following the one true church even if it is not the Catholic Church, deserves heaven. This is not to be confused with indifference. For example, C.S. Lewis writes in the Last Battle about a character, named Emeth, who is granted passage to Aslan’s country (Narnia’s heaven) even though he worshipped the evil Tash. You may think that this is a pathetic example but the Church also says that if an individual writing is true use it, even if it was written by pagan Aristotle, Anglican C.S Lewis, or Puritan John Milton.

 

[Answersplease]

You just, uhmn…did.

I said “I didn’t”, meaning past tense, or do you need me to say “I didn’t say it earlier”?
Excuse me if I don’t obey your posting guidlines. (rolls eyes)
Your post is a personal attack, but that is not new for you.

And you did it in a manner that intimates that Mormons were entirely to blame, that Mormons were the perpetrators of all the violence, and that those on the ‘other’ side were innocents.

No I didn’t, you are an extremist Mormon and think that the slightest criticism is a huge attack.

You really don’t want to do that, Answerplease. You really don’t.

Your tone is very hostile, and if you keep it up I will report you. Maybe I will report you anyway.
Listen up, you don’t get to tell people what they can and cannot do.

…and look how dishonest you were in including the quote from Bruce R. McConkie regarding the “Church of the Devil” item—when you KNOW, it having been mentioned several times within the last few days, that the CoJCoLDS came down like a wall of bricks on McConkie for writing that one, and made him CHANGE it in all future editions of his book.

**
If you were not so belligerent, you would be funny.

I don’t read every post in a thread, and I especially skip over posts that are not relevant to what I am currently interested in.

AND

The quote from your religion’s founder Joseph Smith backs up McConkie and Pratt.**

( color and emphasis added )

Quote:

catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp

Mormon Stumpers

Many Mormons, including their hierarchy, look upon any criticism—regardless of how honest and sincere—as perverseness inspired by the Evil One. But these same individuals ignore their own past (and present) attacks on Christian churches. You might like to point out a few of these to those Mormons who say their church “never attacks other churches.”
…

1. “The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon” (Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, Orson Pratt, n. 6, 84).
2. “All the priests who adhere to the sectarian [Christian] religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels” (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith, ed. Vol. 1, n. 4, 60).
3. [Under the heading, “Church of the Devil,” Apostle Bruce R. McConkie lists:] “The Roman Catholic Church specifically—singled out, set apart, described, and designated as being ‘most abominable above all other churches’ (I Ne. 13:5)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, 129).
4. “Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Morm. 8; Moro. 8)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Bruce R. McConkie, 177).

 

[majickman]

The lds church has distanced itself from the statements that were made in the past. In fact, what McConkie said was criticized by the leaders at that time. I am sure that we can go into the past and cherrypick what catholic bishops, popes, cardinals have said about protestants. We need to remember that catholics and reformers were spilling each others blood in Europe.

But I can say that the amount of persecution that the lds church receives today on the internet and in books is satan inspired. Of course constructive criticism is one thing…but the hateful criticism and remarks are quite another thing.

so what about the LDS position (as stated in their scriptures) that all the creeds are abominations and those who profess them corrupt? that all other churches had ALL sacramental grace removed from them because of their failure? who inspires that?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Interesting. Look how far back you had to go to get these quotes, and look how dishonest you were in including the quote from Bruce R. McConkie regarding the “Church of the Devil” item—when you KNOW, it having been mentioned several times within the last few days, that the CoJCoLDS came down like a wall of bricks on McConkie for writing that one, and made him CHANGE it in all future editions of his book.

As to the last quote, I’d say that you need to take a closer look at the context.

But I’ll keep saying this: y’all have to go back considerably over a century to find something that can possibly be interpreted as anti-anything. Ya’ll ALSO find the same quotes–the same, less than ten or fifteen quotes–which works out to about one quote per decade or so of our existance. Would you care to tell me how THAT justifies the literally thousands of anti-Mormon **** that is published every year?

As long as your sidebar blatantly advertises anti-Mormon (and anti-Islam, anti-JW, anti-Oprah Winfrey[and that one REALLY has me going hmmn…]) for sale right here on CAF, I think you can understand that I’m not terribly impressed with your dredging up century and a half old quotes—and quotes that the church made the author fix.

Please. Find something a little newer. YOu know, like—within my lifetime? Or yours?

Do you dismiss the writings of Founder, and First Mormon Prophet, Joseph Smith due to the age of his writings?

At what point in history did the Mormon Prophets and Apostles speak truth?

Anna