All people should have their own independant home

[StillWondering]

Living here in the states it is so easy to think of homelessness as a strange percentage of the population. However there are numerous homeless families out there and even more families living in slums dying from hunger. Every 7 seconds, a person dies from hunger in this world. Yet just the states alone produce more than enough nurishing food a year to feed the entire world. Each individual person in the wolrd can own a 2 story 1500 sq ft home and the total coverage of land is around the size of Texas or less.

Yet there are poor people in Haiti who has to eat mined earth to survive. People in Africa who eats tree bark as the major constituents of their diet. There are people all over the world who live off of the trash of others.

Here is a link about the low cost homes in Hong Kong where 100 family each gets 100 sq ft. Look at the pictures. So many are appreciative of what little they have. Yet everyone can have much better throughout the whole world and we would still have an immense about of resources, land, and food for each person in the world. If only we live as Christ had instructed us to. Live in a loving shared community where we are all one.

photomichaelwolf.com/100_x_100/

 

[aicirt]

Citizens in the US are known for their generosity. It isn’t that we, and many others throughtout the world, don’t give. The problem is with donations being confiscated, sold on the black market, or left in an area because the country lacks roads and trucks to distribute the donations into the country.

Many in Africa die from the effects of malaria which could be easily treated but the measure is defeated because DDT cannot be used. Consequently, the problem continues when it could be eradicated.

 

[royal_archer]

Here is a link about the low cost homes in Hong Kong where 100 family each gets 100 sq ft. Look at the pictures. So many are appreciative of what little they have. Yet everyone can have much better throughout the whole world and we would still have an immense about of resources, land, and food for each person in the world. If only we live as Christ had instructed us to. Live in a loving shared community where we are all one.

photomichaelwolf.com/100_x_100/

Those are nice rooms and more than most college students have. (But where are the bath rooms? )

It would be nice if more Americans had access to homes like this. unfortunately even the section 8 housing is way oversized for the needs of most. If more modest housing like this were built in America more people could afford it on smaller incomes.

 

[fultonfish]

There are two other issues:

1. absence of the right to private property
2. totalitarian government

In the United States, people have property rights. You can keep most of what money you earn and you can spend it any way you want. If you choose to buy a house, then you will have a private house. If you need to move, you can sell the house on the secondary market and reinvest the proceeds into any number of other things including financial instruments that may pay interest or dividends or other income. OR you can buy our build another house.

You need to read the U.S. Constitution. It spells out many of the limitations on government. Government doesn’t give rights to the people; the Constitution places limits on government. Important distinction.

In many third world countries, property rights do not exist. Thus if people are able to save up some money, they cannot buy land and they cannot build a house that they have any resale rights to.

In totalitarian governments, the dictator or his thuggy friends may simply come to you and take what you have and you are lucky if they let you live. In the United States there are due process rights; the government cannot take your stuff unless they have the proper paperwork, in summary.

Those two issues are the major impediments to people in other countries, particularly in third world countries, from having their own independent homes.

The other issue is one of words. People don’t HAVE homes. They work hard and save their money and build or buy their homes. They work for the homes; they don’t HAVE homes. They work to earn the money to build or buy the homes. Big difference.

Some politicians have said that some people are LUCKY and that’s the reason why they have property. I suspect these particular politicians have never actually had to earn their money. They have gained their money as a result of political patronage.

For the people of the United States, it’s not a matter of luck, not a lottery. People generally start off and save a significant portion of their income and then invest it in a house or a business or some other asset. It’s not luck and it’s not “having” the asset. It’s working hard and being productive and investing.

 

[Tyuiop411]

Living here in the states it is so easy to think of homelessness as a strange percentage of the population. However there are numerous homeless families out there and even more families living in slums dying from hunger. Every 7 seconds, a person dies from hunger in this world. Yet just the states alone produce more than enough nurishing food a year to feed the entire world. Each individual person in the wolrd can own a 2 story 1500 sq ft home and the total coverage of land is around the size of Texas or less.

Yet there are poor people in Haiti who has to eat mined earth to survive. People in Africa who eats tree bark as the major constituents of their diet. There are people all over the world who live off of the trash of others.

Here is a link about the low cost homes in Hong Kong where 100 family each gets 100 sq ft. Look at the pictures. So many are appreciative of what little they have. Yet everyone can have much better throughout the whole world and we would still have an immense about of resources, land, and food for each person in the world. If only we live as Christ had instructed us to. Live in a loving shared community where we are all one.

photomichaelwolf.com/100_x_100/

This is all true, but it will never really happen until the return of Christ. Mostly because man, in his nature, is greedy and wants more for himself than for others. You also basically summed up Communism without the Atheism.

 

[fultonfish]

There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be limited to 100 sq ft.

[You do understand that 100 square feet is 10 feet by 10 feet, roughly the size of a jail cell.]

You do understand that. Right?

You do also understand that the reason why people in Hong Kong are happy with 100 square feet is that they live in conditions of freedom.

At least for the time being.

Under British rule [you do understand that Hong Kong used to be run by the British, right?] Hong Kong was one of the most free places on earth.

Hong Kong is now back being run by the Chinese government, which is Communist. And for the time being the Communists are allowing Hong Kong to continue under the same administrative system (more or less) as the British established.

You also understand that Hong Kong is grossly over crowded because so many Chinese people escaped from the mainland Chinese Communist government.

You also understand that Hong Kong is basically an island. There is very little real estate available at all, so they had to go vertical and build apartment houses [blocks of flats] and to make it economical and affordable, they had to make the flats quite small.

And THAT is how they came to the 100 square foot rule.

Here in the United States, if you want something similarly economical, you are perfectly free to build a garden shed that is 10 feet by 10 feet and live in that.

If you want housing with more space, you could buy a mobile home, which is very affordable.

In other words, if you choose to live efficiently and economically, you can certainly do that. And it is also very affordable.

The beauty of the United States is that you have the right to choose what size house you want to live in and you have the right to choose how much of your own money you want to spend and which of the 50 states you want to live in.

You also understand that a lot more people move from Hong Kong to the United States than move from the United States to Hong Kong.

Read Mark Levin’s book, “Liberty & Tyranny”.

www.marklevinshow.com

 

[Ridgerunner]

If you want housing with more space, you could buy a mobile home, which is very affordable.

Not long ago, I bought a piece of farmland adjoining other property my family owns. On that land I bought there sits a 1200 square foot mobile home that the previous owner did not bother to haul away. It wasn’t well taken care of, but some serious elbow grease would restore it. I have tried to give it away, but nobody will take it. Ultimately, I am convinced I’ll have to have some salvor strip the aluminum siding off, burn it and take the frame away for salvage. It’s pretty obvious to me that the need for housing in this country is somewhat short of desperate.

 

[fultonfish]

This is all true, but it will never really happen until the return of Christ. Mostly because man, in his nature, is greedy and wants more for himself than for others. You also basically summed up Communism without the Atheism.

Not true, my friend, not true.

What I described is voluntary cooperation.

Communism, with or without the atheism, requires coercion. In other words, you do what the government says, or they will kill you.

Read “The Black Book of Communism”.

But, one of the things that is truly unique about the United States is all the fabulous voluntary associations that exist. They range from small churches [God is a MAJOR part of the United States] to volunteer fire departments to volunteer charitable and welfare organizations to home schooling groups.

We can also volunteer to pool our money and start a business.

In any case, God is a major part of the United States.

The government and socialists try really hard to discourage worship of God, and they have had some successes.

But the people fight back, voluntarily.

Did you know that the country with the largest number of Permanent Eucharistic Adoration chapels is the United States.

 

[Lynxdk]

It’s pretty obvious to me that the need for housing in this country is somewhat short of desperate.

Maybe it’s that the people who would most welcome such a home still don’t have enough to afford it, and to some degree, feel rather hopeless because they want something nicer… while those who can afford it have enough to afford something much nicer…

I have my eye on a property down the street from me with an old log cabin home where the roof is sagging, but the walls are still very solid, that I would ~love~ to fix up… but I’ve currently not the $$ to buy it outright… but maybe in a year or so, if not that specific one, maybe something similar. You never know, someone might be eyeing your trailer too =)

 

[Lynxdk]

Not true, my friend, not true.

What I described is voluntary cooperation.

I wonder if a lot of people who consider Communism and Socialism in an idealized sense are actually thinking along the lines that you’ve describe there. Puts me in mind of the Amish, less the austere lifestyle.

 

[fultonfish]

We can all live in 100 square feet.

No problem.

Probably when we start out we have a small place.

But then, maybe I am an artist, so I need a studio. So you add another 100 square feet.

And then after a while, you outgrow that. Paints and brushes. A rack to store artwork. Another 100 square feet.

Then you get tired of a hotplate or a microwave and want some food prep space. That gets you another 100 square feet.

Tired of sharing your bathroom with strangers? Add another 100 square feet.

Buy a few books and have no place for a book case and a comfortable place to sit and read? Add another 100 square feet.

Want a place to set up your train set? Whoops, another 100 square feet.

Ping pong table? Pool table? Another 100 square feet.

That’s 800 square feet.

Trouble ahead!

Now you’re up to the size of a small cape cod style HOUSE!!!

Meet someone special and get married?

Add another 800 square feet.

NOW, you’re up to the size of a raised rancher!!!

Sixteen hundred square feet!

Too big, even, for a mobile home!!!

And that’s how it goes!

Nothing wrong with that.

That’s life.

As long as we don’t have a set of commissars who will confiscate your 1600 square foot house and give it to people they decree are more deserving than you are.

 

[St_Francis]

Not long ago, I bought a piece of farmland adjoining other property my family owns. On that land I bought there sits a 1200 square foot mobile home that the previous owner did not bother to haul away. It wasn’t well taken care of, but some serious elbow grease would restore it. I have tried to give it away, but nobody will take it. Ultimately, I am convinced I’ll have to have some salvor strip the aluminum siding off, burn it and take the frame away for salvage. It’s pretty obvious to me that the need for housing in this country is somewhat short of desperate.

This is sort of aside from the main point, but it would probably cost $5,000 just to get the mobile home moved and set up, and that would be if they didn’t have to go very far. And someone would have to have a place to move it *to, *which if you are not near a mobile home rental space would constitute additional space, and all that cost even before fixing it up.

 

[Ridgerunner]

This is sort of aside from the main point, but it would probably cost $5,000 just to get the mobile home moved and set up, and that would be if they didn’t have to go very far. And someone would have to have a place to move it *to, *which if you are not near a mobile home rental space would constitute additional space, and all that cost even before fixing it up.

I think this probably depends on where you are, how you set it up and how much you and/or your friends are willing to do. It also depends on space availability. $5,000 is several times as much as it would cost if you skirted it yourself, connected the utilities and built your own steps.

Actually, I think I got it arranged today. Guy who loaded hay with me today operates a low-end country mobile home park. A guy like that will end up renting it to the people who could have owned it for nothing. Big old guy of Norwegian extraction. He’s 77 years old, and does the work himself. Oh, those evil capitalist exploiters!

 

[fultonfish]

This is sort of aside from the main point, but it would probably cost $5,000 just to get the mobile home moved and set up, and that would be if they didn’t have to go very far. And someone would have to have a place to move it *to, *which if you are not near a mobile home rental space would constitute additional space, and all that cost even before fixing it up.

Stop making up numbers.

It’s about $2 per mile. Set up is minor. Trivial.

I got a 40 footer for $1 and it cost me $200 to move it 200 miles and set it up.

 

[aicirt]

I think this probably depends on where you are, how you set it up and how much you and/or your friends are willing to do. It also depends on space availability. $5,000 is several times as much as it would cost if you skirted it yourself, connected the utilities and built your own steps.

Actually, I think I got it arranged today. Guy who loaded hay with me today operates a low-end country mobile home park. A guy like that will end up renting it to the people who could have owned it for nothing. Big old guy of Norwegian extraction. He’s 77 years old, and does the work himself. Oh, those evil capitalist exploiters!

I hear ya! Downsizing we offered up our living room set…two sofas, down filled, and large chair with ottoman. Okay, the dog chewed the corner of a pillow. Free! No takers not even the Salvation Army. Really was too good throw out. Friend’s young relatives just bought a $350,000 home and could not afford a set for their den or living room. LOVED IT!! We were happy that someone could use it and really liked it. This is how, IMO, you get ahead. Try not to spend money on things. Used is good and plenty of people with money know that. That’s why they have money.

 

[fultonfish]

A few years back I needed a mobile home. Was unhappy with the prices at mobile home dealers and made some phone calls: what is the fair market value of a used mobile home.

Answer: zero.

Can’t get rid of them; need to pay to have them demolished for scrap.

Guy said he had two right there that I could have.

Bought it from him for $1. Cost me $1 per mile to move. [Now maybe $4, but that would be for a much heavier model.]

The one I got was 9000 pounds and served for many years until a particularly heavy snow storm crushed it. Cost me a few hundred to have a farmer take it apart for scrap.

 

[StillWondering]

I feel that a lot here did not read my post in it’s entirety.

Say we built 2 story houses for 6 billion people. Each house has 2000 square footage of living space with 1000 sqft at the bottom and at the top floor each. That’s 6x10^12 sq ft.

Texas has 268,820 sq miles of space = ~7.5x10^12 sq ft. That leaves 1500 billion sq ft of space for roads and offices.

And that is one state in the United States, which is one country out of the whole world. While Texas is a big piece of land, but the land masses of the world can fit 213 Texas’ in it. Of this, if we ignore mountains, deserts, and heavy woodlands, there is still ~35% of that land being very easy to live in. That would be 75 Texas size land masses without mountains, without deserts, and without heavy woodland.

There is over 70 times the amount of land needed to give each single person alive a 2000 sq ft home (including babies alive right now getting their homes). We have more than enough resources to build all these homes. We have more than enough engineers that can design and take care of this. The only thing we do not have are humans willing to serve each other by living where we share.

I’m not talking about communism if anyone is taking that. Communism does not allow one who wishes to have their own property from owning it or being responsible for it.

The early Church lived like Christ teaches. They, as in the early Church, all had their homes and their lives, but each time they “broke bread” they would bring up offerings. This included gold, included goats, this included extra clothes, this included butchered meat, this included gifts, this included anything one was willing to share with those in the community.

If we continue to live in a shared Christian community, we can easy share the labor it takes to give each person a home. We could have more than adequate houses and not run dry of land nor resources.

 

[Ridgerunner]

A few years back I needed a mobile home. Was unhappy with the prices at mobile home dealers and made some phone calls: what is the fair market value of a used mobile home.

Answer: zero.

Can’t get rid of them; need to pay to have them demolished for scrap.

Guy said he had two right there that I could have.

Bought it from him for $1. Cost me $1 per mile to move. [Now maybe $4, but that would be for a much heavier model.]

The one I got was 9000 pounds and served for many years until a particularly heavy snow storm crushed it. Cost me a few hundred to have a farmer take it apart for scrap.

Used mobile homes do sell though. Usually, however “in situ”, either on a bit of land, with the land included, or in an established park. But yes, they do depreciate like a car does; perhaps even more so in the first few years. A buyer of a new mobile home that’s financed is “upside down” in a big way, and immediately.

Never will I forget, long ago when I was in banking, buying some GNMAs that were secured by packages of loans, largely on mobile homes (they called them “modular”, but there’s “modular” and “modular”.) under some dumb program or other to get new homes up quickly in blighted areas. No down payment, of course, all FHA insured. Astoundingly, those GNMAs were selling at a discount to par. I jumped all over them because I knew massive numbers of the loans would default, and the government would have to pay them off. They did, of course, and I was able to book the discount very quickly. Banking can be dull sometimes, but that experience wasn’t.

 

[fultonfish]

I feel that a lot here did not read my post in it’s entirety.

Say we built 2 story houses for 6 billion people. Each house has 2000 square footage of living space with 1000 sqft at the bottom and at the top floor each. That’s 6x10^12 sq ft.

Texas has 268,820 sq miles of space = ~7.5x10^12 sq ft. That leaves 1500 billion sq ft of space for roads and offices.

And that is one state in the United States, which is one country out of the whole world. While Texas is a big piece of land, but the land masses of the world can fit 213 Texas’ in it. Of this, if we ignore mountains, deserts, and heavy woodlands, there is still ~35% of that land being very easy to live in. That would be 75 Texas size land masses without mountains, without deserts, and without heavy woodland.

There is over 70 times the amount of land needed to give each single person alive a 2000 sq ft home (including babies alive right now getting their homes). We have more than enough resources to build all these homes. We have more than enough engineers that can design and take care of this. The only thing we do not have are humans willing to serve each other by living where we share.

I’m not talking about communism if anyone is taking that. Communism does not allow one who wishes to have their own property from owning it or being responsible for it.

The early Church lived like Christ teaches. They, as in the early Church, all had their homes and their lives, but each time they “broke bread” they would bring up offerings. This included gold, included goats, this included extra clothes, this included butchered meat, this included gifts, this included anything one was willing to share with those in the community.

If we continue to live in a shared Christian community, we can easy share the labor it takes to give each person a home. We could have more than adequate houses and not run dry of land nor resources.

I don’t mean to be “finger pointing” or anything like that. But, for another example, if “you” added up all the food that people need to eat every day, the total would drive you insane if you got the idea that you personally had to figure out how to provide that food.

That is exactly the problem with a command economy. The government takes it upon itself to figure out and provide all those resources. A command economy cannot provide everything for everybody, so people have food shortages and water shortages and housing shortages and automobile shortages and electricity shortages. That’s why third world countries and fourth world countries are so screwed up; everything is run by local dictators. It gets far far worse when the the local guy is an out-and-out thug as in places like Somalia or Zimbabwe or Kenya.

But what happens in a free market economy is that everybody has all the food they want because the price and quantity balance out and there are always providers jumping into and out of the supply chain. The exact same thing applies to energy, housing, cars, etc. The free market adjusts based on local conditions, etc. But the actual market is extremely flexible and accommodates everyone’s needs and wants.

Read the essay “I, Pencil”. You can dial it up on Google.

Very illustrative.

The idea of a shared Christian community was how the early colonies in the United States were operated and they about starved to death the first year. They would have died out completely in months. But they adopted the system we have now and thrived. Read also the Thanksgiving narrative published by the Wall Street Journal and probably Investors Business Daily.

 

[fultonfish]

Here is a very relevant article from another thread.

investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=514426