All Roman Catholics Should Know Both Forms of the Roman Rite

[oldcatholicguy]

All Roman Catholics should be exposed to the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms of the Roman rite. There are two Forms of our Rite, not just one. Therefore, I think it is important that all Latin rite Catholics experience both forms of the Mass.

We have a situation where most Latin Catholics are ignorant of the Extraordinary Form. This must change.

All Latin Rite Priests should know how to offer both the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form. The fact that most of our priests can’t celebrate both forms of the Roman rite needs to change.

There should be unity among all Latin rite Catholics. To this end, there should be a Traditional Latin Mass in every parish. At the very least, I think there should be an EF Mass offered monthly in every parish.

So from your above we gather that-
-most Catholics don’t know about the EF
-most Catholics don’t attend the EF
-most priests don’t offer the EF
-there is some sort of disunity caused by there being two rites

I guess if your real aim is to better unify Catholics then the only logical solution would be to not offer the EF. Your argument is self defeating- i.e. the solution to your “unity problem” is to remove the form you are promoting. (Note for clarity- My comment is in response to the false idea that two rites and lack of knowledge of the lesser used rite somehow creates disunity among Catholics. My comment is not directed toward the EF or those who attend it.)

If we switch your above to ice cream flavors then what we are left with is- Even though all children love ice cream, parents are causing disunity among their children (most of whom know nothing about chocolate ice cream) by only serving vanilla ice cream. All parents must tell their kids about chocolate ice cream and serve chocolate instead of/or in addition to vanilla ice cream in order to fully unite their children. They must do this even if their children do not care for chocolate ice cream or take more satisfaction from eating vanilla ice cream.

 

[CruceSignati]

Hi all!

Joining a little late, but I think people are confusing “SHOULD KNOW” with “FORCED TO PARTICIPATE”. I think the title of the thread says it best. To reword it slightly: Ideally, all Catholics would know about both forms of the Roman Rite.

Please note that “know” can mean a lot of different things. So maybe a more helpful discussion would be, what would be ideal in terms of how much a Roman Rite Catholic should know about the EF vs OF.

As for my view, I think it’s a great idea to encourage Catholics to study up on both rites. It helps to deepen one’s understanding of the liturgy. I would also add that there is nothing wrong with having a personal preference and choosing to exclusively attend either the EF or OF. Certainly, no one should be forced to attend one or the other.

I agree with this. Catholics should not necessarily have to participate in the EF of the Mass, but they should certainly know about it. I felt like a real dimwit in the faith when I found out that I had never learned about how the Mass was celebrated prior to Vatican II.
In short, Catholics need to be educated but not forced to take part in the EF of the Mass.

 

[TimothyH]

I agree with this. Catholics should not necessarily have to participate in the EF of the Mass, but they should certainly know about it. I felt like a real dimwit in the faith when I found out that I had never learned about how the Mass was celebrated prior to Vatican II.
In short, Catholics need to be educated but not forced to take part in the EF of the Mass.

The Church says that I need not be educated about something that is extraordinary. The Church says that it is perfectly acceptable if I spend my entire life going to the OF without ever having heard that an EF exists.

-Tim-

 

[ProVobis]

What needs to change is that people who claim that their rights are being trampled because they are being denied one form of the Mass then turning around and stepping on the rights of other Christians by forcing them to do what the Church herself says is not necessary.

So instead we have different vernaculars and cultures which are going in different directions? Latin is not simply a discipline but a necessity regardless of form IMO.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

So instead we have different vernaculars and cultures which are going in different directions? Latin is not simply a discipline but a necessity IMO.

The Word of God doesn’t change because it’s presented in a different language. Only a man made institution would need to use a man made tool (language) in order to keep it from “going in different directions” (see Islam and the use of one form of Arabic for a practical example of this).

 

[Avila123]

All Roman Catholics should be exposed to the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms of the Roman rite. There are two Forms of our Rite, not just one. Therefore, I think it is important that all Latin rite Catholics experience both forms of the Mass.

We have a situation where most Latin Catholics are ignorant of the Extraordinary Form. This must change.

All Latin Rite Priests should know how to offer both the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form. The fact that most of our priests can’t celebrate both forms of the Roman rite needs to change.

There should be unity among all Latin rite Catholics. To this end, there should be a Traditional Latin Mass in every parish. At the very least, I think there should be an EF Mass offered monthly in every parish.

Not sure why the Latin rite club members should seek unity at the expense of the rest of the Church. Surely that is being selfish and disregarding the needs and circumstances of the rest of the faithful, not say some of the parish priests?

By all means have a mass in Latin or any other foreign language if there is the demand for it and the resources to hold it. But please don’t try to force it on people who need a mass they can actively participate in.

Not all parishes have mass on a weekly or monthly basis. Some of the faithful are fortunate if they get a mass once a year and even then may risk their lives to attend. When would a very busy priest, often on 24 hour call, with 2 or 3 extra diocesan duties, covering at least 2 churches get the time to brush up on Latin? And is it making best use of him, if 99% of the congregation know it is pointless to turn up at the church on a particular Sunday because the Service is in a foreign language and they cannot participate?

Why exclude those who cannot afford and/or have access to Latin lessons? Plus how do you know you are saying the Latin correctly? I have heard that clergy visiting the Vatican are often asked to speak English because they mispronounce the words or their accents make them unintelligible.

Finally, why Latin? It isn’t even the original language of the mass. Originally masses were said in Greek but it changed (not without a resistance) into the common language of the day which was Latin. This meant everyone could understand the mass.

Well that is my rant vented.

 

[Saints_Alive]

All Roman Catholics should be exposed to the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms of the Roman rite. There are two Forms of our Rite, not just one. Therefore, I think it is important that all Latin rite Catholics experience both forms of the Mass.

We have a situation where most Latin Catholics are ignorant of the Extraordinary Form. This must change.

All Latin Rite Priests should know how to offer both the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form. The fact that most of our priests can’t celebrate both forms of the Roman rite needs to change.

There should be unity among all Latin rite Catholics. To this end, there should be a Traditional Latin Mass in every parish. At the very least, I think there should be an EF Mass offered monthly in every parish.

Nearly every single thing you say here has been echoed by prominent clergy.

It would be interesting to see how the naysayers on the thread word their objections to those clergy :tiphat:

 

[Jaysuitical]

The essential problem is that dumbing down has been THE solution for the past half century – if people have difficulty, parse everything to meet the level the supposed experts believe them to be. Then once things are dumbed down to that level, naturally that becomes too hard, so things have to be taken down further. It was amazing to see the resistance of the dumb-downers to the proper translation of the Latin into English after four decades of blurred demi-doxy in the rite.

I think a great many people would be relieved with the traditional rite’s permission to concentrate inwardly on the presence of God rather than being roped into still-dubious rah-rah-ing where the priest things he’s at a pep rally.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Nearly every single thing you say here has been echoed by prominent clergy.

It would be interesting to see how the naysayers on the thread word their objections to those clergy :tiphat:

Please link below (under the correct category) statements to this effect by said clergy. Thanks in advance.

All Catholics must be educated on the EF-

All priests must know how to offer the EF-

All parishes must offer at least 1 EF per month-

Disunity is caused by having two forms-

 

[JanetF]

My understanding is that one priest is every parish needs to be able to recite the Mass in latin if they are asked to do so.

I live in St. Louis. There is at least one parish that I know if that offers the EF in latin regularly. I assume that there doors would be open to me if I were to choose to attend. However, I am caught in the generation that was not taught latin, born in 1964. Yes, I could take classes if I wanted to, but I don’t feel the need at this time. Tomorrow that may change, but today is today.

 

[Esrb99]

The Church says that I need not be educated about something that is extraordinary. The Church says that it is perfectly acceptable if I spend my entire life going to the OF without ever having heard that an EF exists.

-Tim-

Does the church allow me to spend my whole entire life in the EF?

 

[Dempsey1919]

Nearly every single thing you say here has been echoed by prominent clergy.

This is true. In my opinion, it’s only logical that Priests of the Roman Rite should be able to celebrate the Masses of the Roman Rite.

As for those who question the use of Latin in the Church, I suggest they read the APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION VETERUM SAPIENTIA of Blessed John XXIII.

 

[Jaysuitical]

However, I am caught in the generation that was not taught latin, born in 1964. Yes, I could take classes if I wanted to, but I don’t feel the need at this time. Tomorrow that may change, but today is today.

I think many people are under this misimpression, that they have to learn Latin first in order to participate in the rite. A missal with facing translation provides the means for becoming familiar with the prayers in Latin; and before long, the entire rite becomes intelligible and easily followed.

 

[Saints_Alive]

Finally, why Latin? It isn’t even the original language of the mass. Originally masses were said in Greek but it changed (not without a resistance) into the common language of the day which was Latin. This meant everyone could understand the mass.

“In recent times, even in materialist North America, the growth of the Church was magnificent with the liturgy being kept in Latin. The attempts of the Protestants have failed, and Protestantism uses the vernacular. We ask again: Why the change, especially since changes in this matter involve many difficulties and great dangers? All of us here at the Council can recall the fundamental changes in the meaning of words in common use. Thus it follows that if the Sacred Liturgy were in the vernacular, the immutability of doctrine would be endangered.
The introduction of the vernacular should be separated from the action of the Mass. The Mass must remain as it is. Grave changes in the liturgy introduce grave changes in dogmata.”
-James Cardinal McIntyre addressing the Second Vatican Council.

Also, please read this Apostolic Constitution

adoremus.org/VeterumSapientia.html