"All TLM's forbidden in Italian Diocese"

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From rorate-caeli.blogspot.com:

This is from the Diocesian website:

diocesisavonanoli.it/article.php?op=pdf&sid=3260

Wednesday, November 28, 2007
Incredibile! Italian Diocese settles the problem:
All Traditional Masses forbidden

Monsignor Andrea Giusto is the Diocesan Administrator of the Diocese of Savona Noli (a suffragan of Genova, in the region of Liguria), while the see is vacant. He has settled the “problem” created by the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum in his diocese: all Masses are henceforth forbidden, as this communiqué in the official website of the Diocese makes clear (link / PDF)

Don Giusto: “Stop to the Masses of Saint Pius V”

Published Monday, November 26, 2007

Stop, until further rules, to Masses celebrated according to the rite of Saint Pius V. After recent episodes which took place in the oratory of Saint Michael, at Celle Ligure, the diocesan administrator, Monsignor Andrea Giusto, takes a stand: “In the absence of the bishop - he affirms - and not being still sufficiently clarified the conditions which would render licit the celebration according to the Missal of Saint Pius V, I firmly ask the priests of the diocese not to give permission to groups that ask for the celebration and to ensure that in no church in the diocesan territory Masses according to the pre-Conciliar rite are celebrated.”

[Rorate note: the first paragraph is then repeated]

“The conditions for this kind of celebration - explains Savonese liturgist Andrea Grillo - are the presence of a stably constituted group and their active participation in the rite. This means that a solid liturgical formation and a knowledge of the Latin language are needed, and that these Masses cannot be organized ‘by invitation’, almost as if they were a show or a private event.”

The decision of the diocesan administrator will have as its consequence that, until new rules which will depend on the future Bishop, Masses according to the ritual of Saint Pius V may not be celebrated in Celle or elsewhere [in the Diocese].

The transcript will remain here in case the original content suddenly “disappears”. (Tip: reader)

So what were the “episodes” in Celle Ligure that moved the Diocesan Administrator to issue his (absolutely illegal) edict? A simple Traditional Mass - seemingly, with no scandal involved.

Il Giornale (regional section Liguria Cronaca) reported yesterday:

…at Celle Ligure, in the Parish of Saint Michael the Archangel, the first Mass in the ancient rite in the diocese of Savona took place. A celebration followed by 150-200 faithful, but criticized by the parish priest.

…[T]he Latin Mass [in Celle] was organized in the oratory neighboring the church of the Genoese “Una Voce” Association. The parish priest, don Piero Giacosa, was not opposed to the celebration, which he now criticizes harshly, however. “Why did I authorize it? I told the organizers that the matter did not interest me - he explains - I thought it was enough to dissuade them.”

The Mass nonetheless took place, with the readings in Latin, the priest (an Italian-Brazilian from Verona) who turned his back to the assembly, and a homily in Italian. “I fear that Italy, the garden of the Catholic Church, may become the garden of pagans, of Muslims. - the celebrant said - Benedict XVI has liberalized this rite to make us remember that Mass is not a theater, but a place for prayer.” Those who were present appreciated “the return to the past, to serious things”. Gianno Romollotti says: “I saw people of a certain age, moved. There were also young men, new faces. It was not hard to follow the Mass, in the booklet there was an Italian translation. The criticisms? It is jealousy, we will repeat it on December 8.”

If the Curia allows. “The stop is fair - don Giacosa replies - The Latin Mass was a concession by the Pope, it is supposed to unite, it cannot become a way to do proselytisms or to please the nostalgics, mostly [from] outside the Parish.”
 
Why doesn’t this diocese just leave and join the protestants, like all the other liberal Catholics!. Since the Popes wishes mean nothing to them. :mad:
 
If I recall correctly, the motu proprio clearly indicates that the priests don’t have to have his permission, or anybody else’s, to celebrate the TLM.
 
I wonder when a bishop is going to forbid the NO Mass? I just mean, all things being equal…
 
I don’t understand why the Church allows disobedient clerics to remain in high places. If I were Pope, half the Bishops in the world would be excommunicated by now… but maybe that’s why I’m not the Pope 😛

The enemies of the Church will stop at nothing to suppress the Traditional Latin Mass, but they’ll lose in the end. This is a desperate move, and it will fail. I’m starting to believe that the Traditional Latin Mass is a ‘sign of contradiction’. As Christ was opposed ferociously, so is the Liturgy of the Ages. The more people try to fight against it, it more evident its holiness becomes.
 
A lot of people dislike the Tridentine Mass. They would like nothing more than for it to be banned outright. These people do all they can to convince others that the only people who attend this Mass are radical, nostalgic, schismatic wierdo’s. They are wrong!

Why do they hate the Tridentine Mass?

They hate the Tridentine Mass because it stands for orthodoxy. It stands for tradition. It is a reminder of the pre “Spirit of Vatican II” days when dissenters were not given a platform to espouse their heretical views.

Liberals are worried that the return of the Tridentine Mass will undo all that they have “worked” for these past 40 years. For liberals, the Tridentine Mass represents the “dark days” before they were able to campaign for abortion, gay rights, and artificial birth control.

However, we have a great Pope who is doing his utmost to heal the Church. He recognises the equality of both Masses and has generously allowed both to be celebrated without hindrance.
Benedict XVI has liberalized this rite to make us remember that Mass is not a theater, but a place for prayer." Those who were present appreciated “the return to the past, to serious things”
Exactly. Dissident Bishops do not like that they no longer have power to forbid the Tridentine Mass. They can no longer supress it. Rome has spoken. Case closed.
 
Just wait till Msgr. Rajinth (I hope I spelled it right) straightens him out!!!
 
If I recall correctly, the motu proprio clearly indicates that the priests don’t have to have his permission, or anybody else’s, to celebrate the TLM.
That is correct. There is a loophole, however, in that the bishop is still charged with regulating the liturgy in accord with Canon 392. In this case, it appears the bishop is saying that he needs to intercede to ensure uniform and proper administration. Not saying its the real reason, I have no idea. But if he really believed that there was a concern that the Mass was not being properly administered for whatever reason, I think 392 give him authority to step in.
 
With the See being empty, there is a perfect opportunity for BXVI to make a statement. He really wouldn’t have to do anything disciplinary, just appoint a bishop that will put this Msgr. back in line. One would think that the Holy Father was quite clear on people having the right of access to the TLM.
 
A lot of people dislike the Tridentine Mass. They would like nothing more than for it to be banned outright. These people do all they can to convince others that the only people who attend this Mass are radical, nostalgic, schismatic wierdo’s. They are wrong!

Why do they hate the Tridentine Mass?

They hate the Tridentine Mass because it stands for orthodoxy.

** It stands for tradition.**

It is a reminder of the pre “Spirit of Vatican II” days when dissenters were not given a platform to espouse their heretical views.

Liberals are worried that the return of the Tridentine Mass will undo all that they have “worked” for these past 40 years. For liberals, the Tridentine Mass represents the “dark days” before they were able to campaign for abortion, gay rights, and artificial birth control.

However, we have a great Pope who is doing his utmost to heal the Church. He recognises the equality of both Masses and has generously allowed both to be celebrated without hindrance.

Exactly. Dissident Bishops do not like that they no longer have power to forbid the Tridentine Mass. They can no longer supress it. Rome has spoken. Case closed.
Excellent,
You will be hard pressed to convince the liberals,
For some reason they do not care that Rome has spoken:eek:
Otherwise how can they continue their campaign for Homosexual rights, Abortions, and Contraception?🤷
 
I don’t understand why the Church allows disobedient clerics to remain in high places. If I were Pope, half the Bishops in the world would be excommunicated by now… but maybe that’s why I’m not the Pope 😛

The enemies of the Church will stop at nothing to suppress the Traditional Latin Mass, but they’ll lose in the end. This is a desperate move, and it will fail. I’m starting to believe that the Traditional Latin Mass is a ‘sign of contradiction’. As Christ was opposed ferociously, so is the Liturgy of the Ages. The more people try to fight against it, it more evident its holiness becomes.
i totally agree with you.:mad: … what wrong with them the bishop. Cardinal Joseph in Hong Kong is much more better than them. The biggest enemy for catholic actually is catholic itself. unlike the muslime they are so so so faithful to their allah. bishop in italia
wake up man… Yesus is calling you…

PLS SUPPORT TLM… our last weapon…
 
I hope people here realize this scandal is actually a very good thing. This is just the spark to get the Ecclesia Dei commission clarifying things and exposing the disobedient bishops. This is making news headlines and it cant just be brushed under the rug.

It is very clear this act of the bishop is going to backfire.
 
The biggest enemy for catholic actually is catholic itself.
Well, ‘The worst enemy someone can have is someone from his own table’.

I hope appropriate action will be taken, but it seems that for many people:

Rome has spoken, which is one more reason to play ignorance.
 
A lot of people dislike the Tridentine Mass. They would like nothing more than for it to be banned outright. These people do all they can to convince others that the only people who attend this Mass are radical, nostalgic, schismatic wierdo’s. They are wrong!

Why do they hate the Tridentine Mass?

They hate the Tridentine Mass because it stands for orthodoxy. It stands for tradition. It is a reminder of the pre “Spirit of Vatican II” days when dissenters were not given a platform to espouse their heretical views.

Liberals are worried that the return of the Tridentine Mass will undo all that they have “worked” for these past 40 years. For liberals, the Tridentine Mass represents the “dark days” before they were able to campaign for abortion, gay rights, and artificial birth control.

However, we have a great Pope who is doing his utmost to heal the Church. He recognises the equality of both Masses and has generously allowed both to be celebrated without hindrance.

Exactly. Dissident Bishops do not like that they no longer have power to forbid the Tridentine Mass. They can no longer supress it. Rome has spoken. Case closed.
Right on!
 
I hope everything will be resolve quickly, but in accordance to the church law! Probabaly an excommunication for those who resist the Church.

Pax
Laudater Jesus Christus
Instaurare omnia in Christo
 
Here’s an update to the story:

From rorate-caeli.blogspot.com

**New Bishop for Savona-Noli **

The Holy Father has also named today the new Bishop of Savona-Noli - the small diocese in Liguria, Italy, whose Diocesan Administrator has “forbidden” all Traditional Masses since Monday.

The new Bishop will be Monsignor Vittorio Lupi, up to now Vicar General in the Diocese of Ventimiglia-San Remo. May he be obedient to the letter and to the mens of the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum…
 
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