All Western Christians: Titus 3:10?

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Do any Western Christians, Protestant or Catholic, ever take the advice of St. Titus in this verse?

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A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject. -Titus 3:10, KJV

I know the Orthodox are famous for doing this when people are adamant about trying to debate us. The greatest example is when Martin Luther and co. were trying to establish communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople. He told them after writing to them 2 times that they would not be hearing from him again because the Orthodox would not accept their novelties.

Are there examples of you, your priest/pastor, someone in your church’s history taking St. Titus’ advice? After seeing this verse, would you take his advice and avoid disputes after 2 times of a person obstinately refusing to listen to your points? Perhaps all of us should learn from St. Titus, although the threads might be a lot shorter here! 😛

In Christ,
Andrew
 
I’m not sure as to whether or not Titus was referring to individuals or groups of individuals. Usually, the Church deals in this way with schismatic or heretical groups and not persons per se. Individuals are usually just excommunicated or they excommunicate themselves.
 
That sounds like a good idea actually 🙂

But think of St. Paul… I think he denied Christianity more than twice, and look who he became! It is perhaps good advice for our daily lives, but not for the Church as a whole… I mean there’s always hope for people, you know?

I think the excommunication process works along these lines… after being excommunicated if a person continues in their actions it is very rare for it to be lifted.

God bless!
Ljubim

PS, why KJV?:confused:
 
ljubim said:
That sounds like a good idea actually 🙂

But think of St. Paul… I think he denied Christianity more than twice, and look who he became! It is perhaps good advice for our daily lives, but not for the Church as a whole… I mean there’s always hope for people, you know?

I think the excommunication process works along these lines… after being excommunicated if a person continues in their actions it is very rare for it to be lifted.

God bless!
Ljubim

PS, why KJV?:confused:
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When they deny key doctrines of your church after two times, cut off the dialogue (charitably) and pray for them. I think it would do wonders for ecumenical dialogues with other churches, too, for this same reason.

I found it on my iPod. It was the best alternative to the NIV or “Good News” translation. Or would you prefer I use Spanish or Greek? 😉

In Christ,
Andrew
 
I’m not sure what I count as anymore, but I think this is a good general rule. It would make me feel a lot better of the RC would adopt this stance, anyway, because it seems like too many people get away with either trying to be syncretists or at fudging the truth to facilitate “dialogue” which will never amount to anything because the truth is compromised in the process. I don’t think this is good for anybody. Quit apologizing for the truth and you’ll get a lot more out of any dialogue that DOES happen than you would otherwise. And if people won’t talk with you because you refuse to embrace their heresy, fine. Not everything needs to be “on the table” in the first place.

There you go: Nominally (at least) Western Christian - pro-Titus, anti-B.S. 👍
 
Harpazo said:
Do any Western Christians, Protestant or Catholic, ever take the advice of St. Titus in this verse?

http://www.photosled.com/data/2367/0825_Titos.jpg
A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject. -Titus 3:10, KJV

I know the Orthodox are famous for doing this when people are adamant about trying to debate us. The greatest example is when Martin Luther and co. were trying to establish communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople. He told them after writing to them 2 times that they would not be hearing from him again because the Orthodox would not accept their novelties.

Are there examples of you, your priest/pastor, someone in your church’s history taking St. Titus’ advice? After seeing this verse, would you take his advice and avoid disputes after 2 times of a person obstinately refusing to listen to your points? Perhaps all of us should learn from St. Titus, although the threads might be a lot shorter here! 😛

In Christ,
Andrew
Click to expand...
Andrew,
Are you going to cut me off and put me on ignore? :bighanky: 😃
Would it be worth while to mention that since Vatican II there have been continuing dialogue within Christianity that, were we to take this phrase as a hard and fast rule, would not be taking place.
I place before you two evidences of why a literal reading would be detrimental to efforts to bring about unity.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

helsinki.fi/~risaarin/lutortjointtext.html

Jon
 
St. Titus didn’t say that. Paul wrote the epistle to Titus…
 
Harpazo said:
When they deny key doctrines of your church after two times, cut off the dialogue (charitably) and pray for them. I think it would do wonders for ecumenical dialogues with other churches, too, for this same reason.

I found it on my iPod. It was the best alternative to the NIV or “Good News” translation. Or would you prefer I use Spanish or Greek? 😉

In Christ,
Andrew
Click to expand...
Si, senor! Espanol es mas bueno!!😉

Oops… it IS St. Paul:blush:😃
 
JonNC said:
Andrew,
Are you going to cut me off and put me on ignore? :bighanky: 😃
Would it be worth while to mention that since Vatican II there have been continuing dialogue within Christianity that, were we to take this phrase as a hard and fast rule, would not be taking place.
I place before you two evidences of why a literal reading would be detrimental to efforts to bring about unity.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

helsinki.fi/~risaarin/lutortjointtext.html

Jon
Click to expand...
No, I wouldn’t do anything rash like that.🙂 I was just bringing up the suggestion that maybe it would do better for ecumenical dialogue for people to stop and slow down. For the most part, ecumenism has a habit of devolving into “we both really believe in the same things.” I personally don’t embrace that philosophy. If a person or group were to approach my bishop with questions about Orthodoxy, he would most try to determine after a few conversations if they were really sincere or not. Were they not sincere, he would politely cut off dialogue.

I think Western Christians as a whole are more afraid of getting bad press when it comes to interaction with other denominations than sticking to their beliefs. Then again, you get some that are at the complete opposite end of the spectrum who damn everyone else and stay secluded. It’s a balancing act, I have no doubt.

In Christ,
Andrew
 
Harpazo said:
No, I wouldn’t do anything rash like that.🙂 I was just bringing up the suggestion that maybe it would do better for ecumenical dialogue for people to stop and slow down. For the most part, ecumenism has a habit of devolving into “we both really believe in the same things.” I personally don’t embrace that philosophy. If a person or group were to approach my bishop with questions about Orthodoxy, he would most try to determine after a few conversations if they were really sincere or not. Were they not sincere, he would politely cut off dialogue.

I think Western Christians as a whole are more afraid of getting bad press when it comes to interaction with other denominations than sticking to their beliefs. Then again, you get some that are at the complete opposite end of the spectrum who damn everyone else and stay secluded. It’s a balancing act, I have no doubt.

In Christ,
Andrew
Click to expand...
Hi Andrew,
I knew you wouldn’t. The two documents I posted: are they evidence of good dialogue, or of ecumenism of good feeling?
Jon
 
I keep thinking about this and I wonder if the verse applies in many cases.

So many people that I run into that hold to heretical teachings do so because they do not know what the correct teaching is in the first place. They are taught the heresy as an answer to another heresy, not to the truth.

Now, in this case, dialog is useful, assuming that the person involved isn’t so hard headed as not to listen.

However, in the case of a person who KNOWS the Truth but prefers the LIE, it is great advice
 
ljubim said:
That sounds like a good idea actually 🙂

But think of St. Paul… I think he denied Christianity more than twice, and look who he became! It is perhaps good advice for our daily lives, but not for the Church as a whole… I mean there’s always hope for people, you know?

I think the excommunication process works along these lines… after being excommunicated if a person continues in their actions it is very rare for it to be lifted.

God bless!
Ljubim

PS, why KJV?:confused:
Click to expand...
In St. Paul’s case though, he was not a Christian at the time he was denying the Truths of the Faith.

In Paul’s letter to Titus, he is speak to Christians about how they should behave towards Christians (not non-Christians) who after 2 times reviewing with them the Truth and the Christian refuses to accept the Truth twice.

I agree with you, I like the idea of doing that on the threads, but then like Andrew said - they’d all be really short. 😛
 
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