All will be saved

[Latin]

Continuation
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Similarly, the Council of Orange Canon 25 states, "In every good work, it is not we who begin … but He (God) first inspires us." (#329.2)
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CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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In other words, when God commands, He capacities the hearer to respond.
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Our cooperation is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.
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As you see above Steve, God saves only a few or everyone it is up to the will of God.
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Matthew 19:26; … “With God ALL things are possible.”

God’s will is to save EVERYONE. My will is that God save everyone.
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AS FOLLOWS, GOD’S PATTERN OF UNIVERSAL SALVATION
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God promised to Nineveh; He will throw everyone to hell.

God promised to human race; apart from a few people He will throw everyone to hell.
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God saved EVERYONE in Nineveh, according to His Love and Justice and FOR HIS GLORY.

In the same way; God will save EVERYONE, according to His Love and Justice and FOR HIS GLORY.
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GOD SAVES THE HUMAN RACE AS FOLLOWS

Explaining Justification
The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
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The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
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Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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GOD FORCES NO ONE TO SAVED BECAUSE NO ONE HAS TO FORCED TO BE SAVED
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Aquinas said, “God changes the will WITHOUT forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.
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Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
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CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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In other words, when God commands, He capacities the hearer to respond.
.
Our cooperation is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.
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You said Steve:
Since only a few are saved, then only a few persevere till the end.
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I HOPE STEVE IN YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT YOU DON’T MEAN:
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Initial Justification (Recreation/Born Again). – The Gift of Final perseverance (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.). = God’s Positive Predestination to Hell.
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Because the above formula MOCKING the Love and the Justice of God!!!
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GOD’S LOVE AND JUSTICE DEMANDS TO GIVE EVERYONE:
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Initial Justification (Recreation/Born Again). + The Gift of Final perseverance (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.). = Positive Predestination to Eternal life for to the Glory of God, which is Universal Salvation.
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Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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THE GREATEST HERESY IN CHRISTIANITY IN ALL TIME AS FOLLOWS:
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Initial Justification (Recreation/Born Again). – The Gift of Final perseverance (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.). = God’s Positive Predestination to Hell.
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With other words; someone baptized into the Body of Christ, and after baptism no grace given to the baptized from God (Rom.14:4; Phil.1:6; Phil.2:13; De Veritatis 22:9; etc.) to cooperate with.
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The above formula is:
God’s Positive Predestination to Hell, the destiny of all predestined is hell, some ones call it Predestination to Grace or Predestination to Initial Salvation.

It is not Catholic teachings, in Catholic teachings God predestines no one to hell.
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God bless you Steve and God bless every readers of the CAF

Latin

 

[teresa63]

teresa63:

God has informed us by His own Word that there are those who willfully choose against Him and, if unrepentant at death, will be lost forever.

The correct Catholic teaching is:
The Church teaches that those who willfully choose against Him and are unrepentant at death will be lost forever.

I repeat: Only a disordered person hopes for what they believe is impossible. Integrity demands that If one believes that some are in hell then one cannot pray that all be saved.

I never made the statement that I ‘believe that some are in hell.’
I said: “It seems that a compassionate and forgiving person in any “standing” would hope that all will be saved. This is God’s will, as well. But God has informed us by His own Word that there are those who willfully choose against Him and, if unrepentant at death, will be lost forever.”

This is the belief and teaching of the Catholic Church as well.

 

[teresa63]

Latin, the rules of the CA forum prohibit posting long and repetitive quotations.
I’m not reading your posts.

 

[steve-b]

Latin,

Universalism that you are trying soooooooo hard to sell, is a heresy. You post page after page after page of quotes, that you spin, and your spin actually contradicts what Jesus said. When He said only a few are saved, I believe Him. It means only a few live their life His way.

 

[o_mlly]

I never made the statement that I ‘believe that some are in hell.’

Our disagreement began with your post 72 in which you claimed that the Church teaches that “not all will be saved”? I asked for a citation to support your claim.

Catholic soteriology acknowledges the Word of God in that…not all will be saved.

Do you still claim that the Church teaches that not all will be saved?

 

[steve-b]

teresa63:

I never made the statement that I ‘believe that some are in hell.’

Our disagreement began with your post 72 in which you claimed that the Church teaches that “not all will be saved”? I asked for a citation to support your claim.

Catholic soteriology acknowledges the Word of God in that…not all will be saved.

Do you still claim that the Church teaches that not all will be saved?

All will be saved, is a heresy.

As stated in other posts, condensing James Akin’s points

. If everyone is going to be saved, then why bother to go to church?
. If everyone is going to be saved there is no such thing as mortal sin.
. If everyone is going to be saved there is no need for evangelism.
. If everyone is going to be saved there is no need to feed the hungry, become a priest, build the church and become a saint.

One asserts then that God invariably brings these people to repentance by the time they die, even if it is in their last, inaccessible, dying moment. Then All the warnings Scripture gives about going to hell are interpreted in a hypothetical manner—“If someone did this then he would go to hell; but in fact, nobody does that.” so God is playing with us. He doesn’t mean any of those warnings.

THAT strikes against God’s truthfulness to suggest that Scripture is full of warnings—especially warnings concerning salvation—that are empty, since God never allows anyone to fulfill those requisite conditions.

 

[NoelFitz]

Q If everyone is going to be saved, then why bother to go to church?
A To worship God.

We are all sinners and need God’s mercy.
It seems appropriate to consider him good, loving and powerful and that the death of Jesus is sufficient to allow all of us to reach what God wants, our salvation.
We can agree with Hans Urs von Balthasar that it is not unreasonable to hope all will be save, or to believe all may be saved.
But it is going too far to say all will be saved.

 

[o_mlly]

All will be saved, is a heresy.

Strawman. The claim is that the Church teaches “not all will be saved.” Do you have a magisterial citation?

 

[o_mlly]

But it is going too far to say all will be saved.

Yes. And it also goes too far to claim that some humans are or will be in hell. The Catholic faith is, as it must be, mute on the population of hell. Our faith must be consonant with our hope. Hope is about our wish for the good things of the future. If we hope, as God wills, that all men will be saved then our faith must believe in that possibility

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

All will be saved, is a heresy.

Strawman. The claim is that the Church teaches “not all will be saved.” Do you have a magisterial citation?

"the doctrine was formally condemned in the first of the famous anathemas pronounced at the Council of Constantinople in 543: Ei tis ten teratode apokatastasis presbeuei anathema esto [See, also, Justinian, Liber adversus Originem, anathemas 7 and 9.] The doctrine was thenceforth looked on as heterodox by the Church.

It was destined, nevertheless, to be revived in the works of ecclesiastical writers, and it would be interesting to verify Köstlin’s and Bardenhewer’s statement that it is to be traced in Bar Sudaili, Dionysius the Areopagite, Maximus the Confessor, Scotus Erigena, and Amalric of Bena. It reappears at the Reformation in the writings of Denk (d. 1527), and Harnack has not hesitated to assert that nearly all the Reformers were apocatastasists at heart, and that it accounts for their aversion to the traditional teaching concerning the sacraments (Dogmengeschichte, III, 661). The doctrine of apokatastasis viewed as a belief in a universal salvation is found among the Anabaptists, the Moravian Brethren, the Christadelphians, among rationalistic Protestants, and finally among the professed Universalists. It has been held, also, by such philosophic Protestants as Schleiermacher, and by a few theologians, Farrar, for instance, in England, Eckstein and Pfister in Germany, Matter in France. Consult Köstlin, art. cit., and Grétillut, “Exposé de théologie systématique” (Paris, 1890), IV, 603.

From: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01599a.htm

bottom line
Universalism ( Apocatastasis ) “ALL WILL BE SAVED” is condemned by the Church, it is heresy

It’s been condemned for 1500 years.

 

[o_mlly]

Universalism ( Apocatastasis ) “ALL WILL BE SAVED” is condemned by the Church, it is heresy

Repeat, strawman argument.

That the Church teaches that the doctrine of Apokatastasis is heterodox does not infer that she teaches that “all will not be saved.” Again, do you have a magisterial citation to support the claim that “all will not be saved”?

Read what the Church does teach in this Encyclical (one of the highest forms of papal teaching) by St. JP II:

While acknowledging that God loves all people and grants them the possibility of being saved … It is necessary to keep these two truths together, namely, the real possibility of salvation in Christ for all mankind and the necessity of the Church for salvation. REDEMPTORIS MISSIO

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Universalism ( Apocatastasis ) “ALL WILL BE SAVED” is condemned by the Church, it is heresy

Repeat, strawman argument.

That the Church teaches that the doctrine of Apokatastasis is heterodox does not infer that she teaches that “all will not be saved.” Again, do you have a magisterial citation to support the claim that “all will not be saved”?

Read what the Church does teach in this Encyclical (one of the highest forms of papal teaching) by St. JP II:

While acknowledging that God loves all people and grants them the possibility of being saved … It is necessary to keep these two truths together, namely, the real possibility of salvation in Christ for all mankind and the necessity of the Church for salvation. REDEMPTORIS MISSIO

you’ve been corrected with references properly referenced for your error. To say all are saved or all will be saved, as in universal salvation, is heresy.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Universalism ( Apocatastasis ) “ALL WILL BE SAVED” is condemned by the Church, it is heresy

Repeat, strawman argument.

That the Church teaches that the doctrine of Apokatastasis is heterodox does not infer that she teaches that "all will not be saved."

all will be saved = Apokatastasis = heresy

 

[o_mlly]

you’ve been corrected with references properly referenced for your error. To say all are saved or all will be saved, as in universal salvation, is heresy.

Well, let me see. I have you (and your reputation for not getting things right) and I have JP II. I’m going to go with the Saint-pope on this one.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

you’ve been corrected with references properly referenced for your error. To say all are saved or all will be saved, as in universal salvation, is heresy.

Well, let me see. I have you (and your reputation for not getting things right) and I have JP II. I’m going to go with the Saint-pope on this one.

From Redemptoris Missio, which you quoted, as if JPII is selling all will be saved:

He’s NOT.

"This is why the Church’s mission derives not only from the Lord’s mandate but also from the profound demands of God’s life within us. Those who are incorporated in the Catholic Church ought to sense their privilege and for that very reason their greater obligation of bearing witness to the faith and to the Christian life as a service to their brothers and sisters and as a fitting response to God. They should be ever mindful that "they owe their distinguished status not to their own merits but to Christ’s special grace; and if they fail to respond to this grace in thought, word and deed, not only will they not be saved, they will be judged more severely."20

You twist JPII like you do Church teaching. JPII is NOT selling all will be saved.

 

[o_mlly]

if they fail to respond to this grace in thought …

Apparently, you missed the conditional above. Absent the conditional, the consequent …

Well, the moderator (robot?) suggests I let others respond.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

if they fail to respond to this grace in thought …

Apparently, you missed the conditional above. Absent the conditional, the consequent …

Well, the moderator (robot?) suggests I let others respond.

there are no conditions to the theology of Universal salvation. No conditions to all will be saved.

Look at your posts. You waved conditions. You insisted no one is in hell.

Re: Apokatastasis which I quoted,

the opening sentence

“A name given in the history of theology to the doctrine which teaches that a time will come when all free creatures will share in the grace of salvation; in a special way, the devils and lost souls.” Meaning, as the article continues, all will be saved even the devils. It was condemned at the Council of Constantinople (543) an ecumenical council, and it talks about those by name, who later resurrected this heresy.

 

[StephieNorthCo]

Just an observation here. I think you guys have been talking past each other rather than talking to or with each other.

One seems to be saying " all will be saved" with the implication intentional or not, that there is no possibility of not being saved.

The other seems to be saying “all can be saved” with the implication intentional or not, that some people will be saved, and some people will not be saved.

Blessings,
Stephie