All will be saved

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NoelFitz

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This is good and pleasing to God our saviour, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim. 2:3-4 NAB)

Major concerns of mine are the divisiveness in the Church and the polarization between Catholics. Thus I am interested in the Pope’s initiatives as shown in Amoris Laetitia. It seems he recommends that the Church should be more open to Catholics who are divorced and remarried, gay and those living together outside marriage. These people have been a cause of concern since it may have seemed they were rejected by the Church.

Amoris Laetitia also seems to show that the Pope believes that all will be saved.

No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel! (AL 297)
 
NoelFitz said:
This is good and pleasing to God our saviour, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim. 2:3-4 NAB)

Major concerns of mine are the divisiveness in the Church and the polarization between Catholics. Thus I am interested in the Pope’s initiatives as shown in Amoris Laetitia. It seems he recommends that the Church should be more open to Catholics who are divorced and remarried, gay and those living together outside marriage. These people have been a cause of concern since it may have seemed they were rejected by the Church.

Amoris Laetitia also seems to show that the Pope believes that all will be saved.

No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel! (AL 297)
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From AL
  1. It is a matter of reaching out to everyone, of needing to help each person find his or her proper way of participating in the ecclesial community and thus to experience being touched by an “unmerited, unconditional and gratuitous” mercy. No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel! Here I am not speaking only of the divorced and remarried, but of everyone, in whatever situation they find themselves. Naturally, if someone flaunts an objective sin as if it were part of the Christian ideal, or wants to impose something other than what the Church teaches, he or she can in no way presume to teach or preach to others; this is a case of something which separates from the community (cf. Mt 18:17). Such a person needs to listen once more to the Gospel message and its call to conversion. Yet even for that person there can be some way of taking part in the life of community,
    whether in
    Homily at Mass Celebrated with the New Cardinals (15 February 2015): AAS 107 (2015), (footnote 257).
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Code: 
   (Footnote 327) Relatio Finalis 2015, 51. 227
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social service, prayer meetings or another way that his or her own initiative, together with the discernment of the parish priest, may suggest. As for the way of dealing with different “irregular” situations, the Synod Fathers reached a general consensus, which I support: “In considering a pastoral approach towards people who have contracted a civil marriage, who are divorced and remarried, or simply living together, the Church has the responsibility of helping them understand the divine pedagogy of grace in their lives and offering them assistance so they can reach the fullness of God’s plan for them”,**_ (footnote 328) something which is always possible by the power of the Holy Spirit
328
Relatio Synodi 2014, 25
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The pope is still calling for those people to conversion. There is no need for conversion, or listening to the Gospel message, if everyone is saved and no one goes to hell no matter the situation

The pope is not going to go against the CCC Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 1035
 
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NoelFitz said:
This is good and pleasing to God our saviour, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim. 2:3-4 NAB)

Major concerns of mine are the divisiveness in the Church and the polarization between Catholics. Thus I am interested in the Pope’s initiatives as shown in Amoris Laetitia. It seems he recommends that the Church should be more open to Catholics who are divorced and remarried, gay and those living together outside marriage. These people have been a cause of concern since it may have seemed they were rejected by the Church.

Amoris Laetitia also seems to show that the Pope believes that all will be saved.

No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel! (AL 297)
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Due to space issues, I couldn’t add this to my previous post,

Universalism is condemned by the Church

Library : The Reality of Hell

The Reality of Hell In this article, James Akin deals with the
www.catholicculture.org www.catholicculture.org

Fr Longnecker, the Danger of universalism http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=43802 Note: keep scrolling down past all the stuff, to view the entire article
 
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I think you, and most of the people who post against it here on CAF, are misreading AL, and in fact, reading a lot into it that is not there.
 
pianistclare said:
I think you, and most of the people who post against it here on CAF, are misreading AL, and in fact, reading a lot into it that is not there.
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The topic of the thread is "All will be saved"

Look at the quote from AL in the opening post.
No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel! (AL 297)

One sentence, taken out of context, to make it look like Pope Francis is selling universalism in AL.

The point is, he’s NOT.
 
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Even I don’t think Pope Francis is pushing universalism.

The man is far more educated than that, after all, though he is confusing, he still is the Pope. I don’t like AL, but he’s still the pope and the document didn’t delve that far.
 
Pope Francis is saying the same things that have been said in Lumen gentium no. 16, and Guadium et spes no. 22. That being - salvation is available / attainable to all because of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross…even those who are not Christian. That is not the same thing as “all will be saved”.
 
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I believe it’s more along the lines of no one in this life is beyond redemption, no matter how sinful they are. If someone is in grave sin, even in the Church, they are still able to be redeemed through the message of the Gospel (i.e., they are not doomed to condemnation forever contingent, of course, on their repentance). I doubt seriously that the Holy Father is denying Church teaching.
 
NoelFitz said:
No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel! (AL 297)
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Adamhovey1988 ,
thanks,
Please give a reference to the Pope’s statement about the mafia being on the road to hell.
What did he mean by the quote I gave?
 
Steve-b
You quote in more detail the part of AL I quoted, but you do not show how the Pope does not believe what he said.

The very start of the first gospel written has a call to conversion/repentance (metanoia):

John [the] Baptist appeared in the desert proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. (Mk. 1:4 NAB)
 
Steve-b #3
You wrote:
Universalism is condemned by the Church.

Are you claiming the Pope is teaching contrary to the Church?
 
steve-b said:
One sentence, taken out of context, to make it look like Pope Francis is selling universalism in AL.

The point is, he’s NOT.
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Steve-b
many thanks for all your replies.
You wrote:
One sentence, taken out of context, to make it look like Pope Francis is selling universalism in AL.

The point is, he’s NOT.

What did the Pope mean by what he wrote?
 
thatcatholicguy,
your reply is the first one that seems to me to try to answer the query I had.
I think it makes sense.
I am sorry to be so critical of others’ replies but you seem to be grappling, as I am, with what the Pope was saying.

Did I tell you he is a Catholic?
 
What God “wills” and what people choose are not always the same thing.
Yes, God wills for all to be saved. And, yes, God sent His Son to effect the grace necessary to save all. But the sad reality is that not all choose to follow Christ by way of the Cross.
Jesus warns his disciples repeatedly about the reality of hell, and he explains in many ways (directly, via parables and by example) how to avoid it by following Him.
 
Those stated position are opposed by God, God’s Bible, the Catholic Catechism, Cannon Law, Sacred Tradition & not even the Pope can do such

Certainly the Church should welcome into Her midst the lost and forsaken; but She cannot [only GOD can] change his commandments and Moral Teachings. Truth can ONLY be TRUTH, Not even a Pope can [or desires too] usurp GODS Will clearly defined LONG AG. Catholics divorced and civilly remarried CANNOT present themselves worthily for Catholic Holy Communion.

1Cor.11: 26 to 30
[26] For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
**[27] Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. **
**[28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. **
**[29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. **
[30] That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. [DIED HERE MEANS SPIRITUALLY/MORTAL SIN]

Nor can the Church change Her long held teaching on homosexuality, and or, gay :marriages"; on even on those living together unmarried in MORTAL Sin

God’s Moral Truths are as unchangeable. NOW, as when God Ordained them. A desire to more merciful CANNOT usurp GODS LAWS.

Blessings,
Partick
 
Teresa63,
It seems strange that an almighty being cannot convince a creature he made to do as he wills.
God built into his creatures the flaws that allow them to be damned for all time. We are made the way we are by God, we did not make ourselves.
 
PJM

Your Bible quotes are not relevant to your main argument. But you do raise serious points.

Catholics cannot divorce. There is no way a married Catholic can get a divorce recognised by the Church, except possibly by the Petrine or Pauline privilege.

I see in a previous post in CAF that if either party is Catholic a civil marriage is not valid, unless a dispensation has been granted by a bishop.

While a spouse lives a married Catholic cannot remarry. However, if there was no marriage, where an annulment is given, Catholics are free to marry.

However, are annulments sometimes fictions?

One must always remember the Church’s power of the keys.

Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matt. 18:18 NAB)

You wrote ‘Truth can ONLY be TRUTH’, Can God change truth?

Your post raises huge issues. Do you disagree with the Pope and Amoris Laetitia?

There is need for a fundamental reappraisal of our beliefs and practices, which should be accompanied by prayer and study.
 
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