All you need is love...? (an SSA question)

[adolfo123]

So the bible says: And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.(i cor.13:13…

My question is can a homosexual express agape love for the one he/she loves and be saved by the grace of God??? Can in the example of Jesus of the good samaritan be also the “Good Homosexaul”???

 

[Nita]

So the bible says: And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.(i cor.13:13…

My question is can a homosexual express agape love for the one he/she loves and be saved by the grace of God???

Yes, a homosexual can express agape love for the one he/she loves and be saved. What is very important to know is that “agape” love would exclude any overt expression (words or deeds) that expresses/demonstrates homosexual love for the other person. Homosexual acts consitute grave matter – which can lead to eternal condemnation. Anyone who has agape love for another would never do anything to tempt another to sin; they’d never do anything that could be a factor in causing the eternal condemnation of that person. Rather, they would do everything in their power to prevent it, no matter how difficult.

Can in the example of Jesus of the good samaritan be also the “Good Homosexaul”???

If you’re only asking whether one with a homosexual orientation could help a person in trouble as the good samaritan did, then the answer is yes.

 

[adolfo123]

Yes, a homosexual can express agape love for the one he/she loves and be saved. What is very important to know is that “agape” love would exclude any overt expression (words or deeds) that expresses/demonstrates homosexual love for the other person. Homosexual acts consitute grave matter – which can lead to eternal condemnation. Anyone who has agape love for another would never do anything to tempt another to sin; they’d never do anything that could be a factor in causing the eternal condemnation of that person. Rather, they would do everything in their power to prevent it, no matter how difficult.

If you’re only asking whether one with a homosexual orientation could help a person in trouble as the good samaritan did, then the answer is yes.

so what if this person is with his/her mate… and give his/her life for them???

 

[Nita]

so what if this person is with his/her mate… and give his/her life for them???

When you say “with his/her mate”, do you mean living together – verbally and physically expressing homosexual union? If so, that’s not giving up one’s life for the other person’s good. That’s not giving up anything! It’s refusing to give up what is mortally endangering not only one’s own soul, but also the soul of the one he/she claims to love. That is not love. That is letting the flesh rule one’s will/soul; being a slave to the flesh in Paul’s words; pleasing oneself.

Remember, Jesus didn’t die to save us from physical death (we still physically die). He gave up His life to save us from eternal death in hell. That is the agape love He became incarnate to carry out.

 

[adolfo123]

When you say “with his/her mate”, do you mean living together – verbally and physically expressing homosexual union? If so, that’s not giving up one’s life for the other person’s good. That’s not giving up anything! It’s refusing to give up what is mortally endangering not only one’s own soul, but also the soul of the one he/she claims to love. That is not love. That is letting the flesh rule one’s will/soul; being a slave to the flesh in Paul’s words; pleasing oneself.

Remember, Jesus didn’t die to save us from physical death (we still physically die). He gave up His life to save us from eternal death in hell.

So can a person be in this “sin” and later make an act of love for the person and die to save a person… will this act save him or will God’s judgement still rest on this person ???

also what if this person is always faithful to their mate>???

 

[Nita]

So can a person be in this “sin” and later make an act of love for the person and die to save a person… will this act save him or will God’s judgement still rest on this person ???

What do you mean by “die to save” that person. Do you mean physically die in an attempt to save their physical life? (eg. you go into a burning house to save a person, and you die; the other person may or may not die.) I can’t know what goes on in another person’s mind and heart during their final moments; I don’t even know what will be going on in my own. What we do know is what the Church teaches; and that is if one dies refusing to repent of serious/mortal sin, if they die in the state of mortal sin, they will be condemned. (CCC #1037)

Consider:
Would that person, in the panic of the situation, be recollected enough to think of finally repenting??? would the repentance be real and not just empty words/thoughts???
What if the attempt to save is unsuccessful and both die. (There is no guarantee the heroic attempt will be successful.) What about the soul of the partner who has no heroic act to his credit? Where is the love for his soul.

also what if this person is always faithful to their mate>???

Fidelity in continuing to commit serious sin!!!

 

[adolfo123]

What do you mean by “die to save” that person. Do you mean physically die in an attempt to save their physical life? (eg. you go into a burning house to save a person, and you die; the other person may or may not die.) I can’t know what goes on in another person’s mind and heart during their final moments; I don’t even know what will be going on in my own. What we do know is what the Church teaches; and that is if one dies refusing to repent of serious/mortal sin, if they die in the state of mortal sin, they will be condemned. (CCC #1037)

Consider:
Would that person, in the panic of the situation, be recollected enough to think of finally repenting??? would the repentance be real and not just empty words/thoughts???
What if the attempt to save is unsuccessful and both die. (There is no guarantee the heroic attempt will be successful.) What about the soul of the partner who has no heroic act to his credit? Where is the love for his soul.

Fidelity in continuing to commit serious sin!!!

Did jesus teach in this matter???

How is this a moral sin if the person does not choice to feel this way it just happens by nature; even say caused by its broke nature in the spiritaul reality?? I remember that moral sin is something that one most fully have knowlege of and control over for it to be moral sin… Can this be venial sin??? Emotions can not be controlled weather or not the person act upon this “Moral sin” he/she can’t control or stop this feelings when caused by nature (broken nature)…See a person with a nature diesaes can’t be condem for being sick is an effect from original sin… So how can a person be condemed for broken emotions made my the effect of original sin… One is born with it ; it can not be controlled…

I remeber that a blind man was blind not because of sin but for the glory of God, so can a homosexual be homosexual for the glory of God???

 

[Nita]

Did jesus teach in this matter???

How is this a moral sin if the person does not choice to feel this way it just happens by nature; even say caused by its broke nature in the spiritaul reality?? I remember that moral sin is something that one most fully have knowlege of and control over for it to be moral sin… Can this be venial sin??? Emotions can not be controlled weather or not the person act upon this “Moral sin” he/she can’t control or stop this feelings when caused by nature (broken nature)…See a person with a nature diesaes can’t be condem for being sick is an effect from original sin… So how can a person be condemed for broken emotions made my the effect of original sin… One is born with it ; it can not be controlled…

We’re not talking about feelings, desires, or inclinations we are born with as being sinful. We’re talking about acting in accordance with them in a way forbidden by God. It may not be possible to control the presence of the inclination/attraction, but it is possible, with the help of God’s grace, to control whether or not one acts on those desires.
A person who has homosexual desires but seeks to resist any forbidden thoughts or acts is not guilty of sin.

It is no different than a single heterosexual person who has to battle sexual desires. Those desires usually arise long before marriage. Granted, many may find a partner to marry; but there are many also who never find a spouse, or are widowed or divorced. They also must fight that temptation to sin for their whole life. (Fornication and adultery are also mortal sins.) I doubt illicit homosexual desires are any stronger than illicit heterosexual desires. WE ALL HAVE TO BATTLE disordered desires.

Temptation is not sin. (Jesus was tempted.) Deciding to go along with temptation is the sin.

I remeber that a blind man was blind not because of sin but for the glory of God, so can a homosexual be homosexual for the glory of God???

Yes, but only if the person cooperates with God’s grace and perseveres in resisting the temptation to sin. It will be a demonstration of God’s power conquering sin in us. Continued willful sin gives no glory to God.

Jesus died to free us from sin. That is, He merited the restoration of grace (the power of God’s life) in our souls so that we can say “no” to sin; refuse to let it control our decisions. That is when we are free/saved from sin.

On rare occasions, God for His purposes effects an “instant cure”. Generally however, He gives us His grace but it can be a long battle to conquer the particular sin that plagues a person - and often the sin is sexual in nature. It’s important to confess after every failure and keep trying not to sin. To throw in the towel is to give victory to Satan.

 

[adolfo123]

We’re not talking about feelings, desires, or inclinations we are born with as being sinful. We’re talking about acting in accordance with them in a way forbidden by God. It may not be possible to control the presence of the inclination/attraction, but it is possible, with the help of God’s grace, to control whether or not one acts on those desires.
A person who has homosexual desires but seeks to resist any forbidden thoughts or acts is not guilty of sin.

It is no different than a single heterosexual person who has to battle sexual desires. Those desires usually arise long before marriage. Granted, many may find a partner to marry; but there are many also who never find a spouse, or are widowed or divorced. They also must fight that temptation to sin for their whole life. (Fornication and adultery are also mortal sins.) I doubt illicit homosexual desires are any stronger than illicit heterosexual desires. WE ALL HAVE TO BATTLE disordered desires.

Temptation is not sin. (Jesus was tempted.) Deciding to go along with temptation is the sin.

Yes, but only if the person cooperates with God’s grace and perseveres in resisting the temptation to sin. It will be a demonstration of God’s power conquering sin in us. Continued willful sin gives no glory to God.

Jesus died to free us from sin. That is, He merited the restoration of grace (the power of God’s life) in our souls so that we can say “no” to sin; refuse to let it control our decisions. That is when we are free/saved from sin.

On rare occasions, God for His purposes effects an “instant cure”. Generally however, He gives us His grace but it can be a long battle to conquer the particular sin that plagues a person - and often the sin is sexual in nature. It’s important to confess after every failure and keep trying not to sin. To throw in the towel is to give victory to Satan.

ise very act in this sin of homosexaulity always moral sin or can it be venial depending on each and every person’s knowledge of the sin at handed???

 

[Nita]

ise very act in this sin of homosexaulity always moral sin or can it be venial depending on each and every person’s knowledge of the sin at handed???

Knowledge of the sinfulness of an act (that it is a serious offense) is one of the three requirements for a sin to be mortal.

It is God who determines what is a serious offense and what is not. He reveals His mind through Scripture and His Church. For a Catholic, knowledge of what acts are serious is learned by studying the Catholic Catechism and Scripture. This is how one forms one’s conscience. (We do not determine what is serious sin and what is venial through our own reasoning. That would be usurping God’s power.)

A Catholic who has knowledge of the Church’s teaching that homosexual acts are grave sins cannot claim lack of knowledge. Or if they have read Scripture where God reveals His will concerning such acts, they cannot claim ignorance. (eg. Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Timothy 1:10; Jude verse 7)

 

[Nita]

If you have a Catechism of the Catholic Church (abbreviated: CCC) you might take the time to read the section on “Sin” - especially paragraphs #1854 thru 1861. It’s also accessible on the internet. vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm#III

CCC#1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

The CCC covers the offenses against the 6th Commandment (Thou shalt not commit adultery) in paragraphs #2331-2400. Homosexuality is covered in CCC #2357-2359.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#II

Hope you’ll find these sections helpful.

 

[JRKH]

So the bible says: And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.(i cor.13:13…

My question is can a homosexual express agape love for the one he/she loves and be saved by the grace of God??? Can in the example of Jesus of the good samaritan be also the “Good Homosexaul”???

I’m coming a bit late to this so forgive me if I repeat.

It is important to recognize that the term Love is used with different meanings and in different ways in todays society and they do not all relate back to Love in the sense of “Agape Love”.
For instance one might say that they “love” their new car, yet this does not really mean they would lay down their life for their car.
One might say they love their mother, but this is not the same as “spousal love”
Society even refers to “Making Love” yet we know this term, while pleasent in it’s sound and intent, is speaking of an action that may or may not relate to actual love for the other person.
Then there is the kind of Love that Jesus Speaks of. A Godly and Christian Love. The kind of Love that seeks only the greatest Good for another.

Love as Jesus and Paul speak of it relates to a Kind of Love in which one would give their life for another - And give their Life TO another. This kind of Love seeks only the highest good for another person. It is the kind of love the Good Samaritan displayed. It is the Kind of Love that Christ displayed.
So if we say that we Love someone in this Christian sense, then we want for them, first and foremost, the highest good which is to see them in heaven. If we do anything with them that interferes with that highest good then we are failing in our love to them, and to God. This is the root of sin - Acts that seperate us from that great Love that unites us to God.

Now - To Homosexuality.
Homosexuality is a naturally disordered act. That is the simple fact of the matter. Sex, and sexual attraction is for the purpose of procreation that is it’s normal and prime function. Homosexuality precludes this and therefore is an abnormality in it’s prime furnction.
Homosexuality has been condemned in Scripture and by the Church as gravely disordered and a sin.
For a Christian To engage in homosexual acts, means that this person is not acting for the highest good of the other person, for whom they are expressing love.

Can one homosexual love another homosexual in Christian Love (Agape Love)? Certainly, but that does not permit, the act, nor does it minimize the sin. In fact it would require the two individuals to do everything in their power to prevent acting upon their homosexual tendancies and to love a celibate life in order that each might help the other gain heaven.

I hope this helps some.

Peace
James