**AGabriel has written a lot of abuse about God even calling him a deceiver. Could he himself be decieved in his beliefs. I feel so. Anyhow, I had requested the christians (and AGabriel is a christian, not Catholic) not to delve into hadith. But AGabriel has come back with Tirmizi. We do not give too much importance to tirmizi and qirmizi. We work with Quran which, according to our belief, is the last testament with the mankind in original.
The christians may not believe that at all. We do not mind. We do not abuse their God and we do not abuse Jesus. Let the Christians become Catholics and come closer to some respectable persons for good discussion.
We invite them to the Quran. And not to start any discussion on the basis of Hadith. Hadith could be as bad as the bibleNT. I did not want to say that. But the christians are constantly bringing up Hadith to malign our prophet and our religion. So I had to remind them about the status of the bible being well below that of our Hadith. Both hadith and bible are man made books**.
It is in your own Quran that Muhammad deceived others:
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”
Qur’an 33:11 “In that situation the Believers were sorely tried and shaken as by a tremendous shaking. And behold! The Hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: 'Allah and His Messenger promised us nothing but delusion; they have promised only to deceive us.”
Qur’an 8:30 “Remember how the unbelievers plotted against you (Muhammad). They plotted, and Allah too had arranged a plot; but Allah is the best schemer.”
There are more in the hadiths, I will only use Bukhari.
Bukhari:V4B53N453 “When the Prophet wanted to perform the Umrah, the Quraysh stipulated that he could not preach (Islam). So Ali started writing a treaty. ‘This is what Muhammad, Apostle of Allah, has agreed to.’ The (Meccans) said, 'If we believed that you were the Apostle of Allah we would have followed you. So write, ‘This is what Muhammad bin Abdallah has agreed to.’ The Apostle could not write, so he asked Ali to erase the expression: ‘Apostle of Allah.’ On that Ali said, ‘I will never erase it.’ Muhammad said, ‘Let me see the paper.’ The Prophet erased the expression with his own hand.”
Bukhari:V5B59N369 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?’ Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslamah got up saying, ‘O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet said, ‘Yes,’ Maslamah said, ‘Then allow me to say false things in order to deceive him.’ The Prophet said, ‘You may say such things.’”
Bukhari:V4B52N268 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.’”
this last one is interesting since our lands are divided into dar al harb (our infidels are considered the lands of war) and dar al islam. So, in our infidel lands they are in a ‘state of war’ and deceit is allowed by them.
There are many more verses about deceit in Islam.
The hadiths are indeed valid. Muslims base their sharia laws on the Quran, hadiths and sunnah. So, now it isn’t valid when these translations, especially Bukhari, are indeed valid. So is Timrizi. These are two of the 6 accepted translations.
And there is too much consistency between all of these people saying that Muhammad did indeed lie to discount them off hand.
The Quran is also a man made book. It is so inconsistent, poorly written, chock full of errors, and jumbled that to say that a God wrote it, or had any part of it would be embarassing to admit that one believed in that god.
People over here proved to you that the Bible has never been corupted yet you call it a man-made book, and I