Allah is Above what you think and imagine

[cthulhubryan]

Bismillahi Arrahmani Arraheem

1. Qul: whoua Allahu Ahad
2. Allah-us-Samad
3. Lam yaled, walam youlad
4. walam yakun lahou kufuwan Ahad.

means:
In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

1. Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allâh, (the) One and Only.
2. "Allâh is The Absolute, The Eternal.
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. “And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.”

Sorry, I said that the actual true God of the universe is Triune. I never referred to any of the Arab pagan gods of the 1st millenia AD.

 

[planten]

**GraceDK, you have challenged me to come on other thread to discuss things. Perhaps you remember we had a dialogue before in which I said I will not bother you any more. There is too much difference of opinion.

I do not mind peaceful discussion.

1. You can tell the topic and not to change the topic.
2. The discussion will only be from Quran and bibleNT.
3. No abuse of any nature of any prophet or man of God.
4. You please read my earlier post again to understand some basic beliefs.
5. Let me know the topic.
6. I will ask you some questions too to judge your balance of mind.
7. There should be nothing unusual or irrational.

If there is going to be any useful result, there is no problem to discuss. But please remember that if you do not believe that Quran is word of God then I will also not believe that bible is word of God. If you do not believe that Muhammad is a man of God, I will also not believe that Jesus is God or son of God. If you believe that Muhammad was a bad man then I will also believe that Jesus was a false man.

Welcome and set your topic and start your thread and let me know the thread. Please do not let any other bad natured spoiled sick Christian to enter the debate with any abuse. That will be your responsibility. Welcome.**

 

[Benjamin8o8]

**GraceDK, you have challenged me to come on other thread to discuss things. Perhaps you remember we had a dialogue before in which I said I will not bother you any more. There is too much difference of opinion.

I do not mind peaceful discussion.

1. You can tell the topic and not to change the topic.
2. The discussion will only be from Quran and bibleNT.
3. No abuse of any nature of any prophet or man of God.
4. You please read my earlier post again to understand some basic beliefs.
5. Let me know the topic.
6. I will ask you some questions too to judge your balance of mind.
7. There should be nothing unusual or irrational.

If there is going to be any useful result, there is no problem to discuss. But please remember that if you do not believe that Quran is word of God then I will also not believe that bible is word of God. If you do not believe that Muhammad is a man of God, I will also not believe that Jesus is God or son of God. If you believe that Muhammad was a bad man then I will also believe that Jesus was a false man.

Welcome and set your topic and start your thread and let me know the thread. Please do not let any other bad natured spoiled sick Christian to enter the debate with any abuse. That will be your responsibility. Welcome.**

Planten I wanted to apologize for earlier, you sound like a good person, but after reading your post something tells me that there is no way anybody can have a legitimate debate with you. I mean no offense brother:blush:

 

[planten]

Thanks Benjamin, no need to apologise. Are you in any way connected with the brother of Joseph son of Jacob?? By your name, you should be from the tribe of Benjamin. I am a fan of Joseph and his younger brother Benjamin. God was very kind to both of them. Joseph and his brother saved the entire children of Israel from death due to starvation.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Thanks Benjamin, no need to apologise. Are you in any way connected with the brother of Joseph son of Jacob?? By your name, you should be from the tribe of Benjamin. I am a fan of Joseph and his younger brother Benjamin. God was very kind to both of them. Joseph and his brother saved the entire children of Israel from death due to starvation.

I have no idea I don`t even know how to find that out but I would be overwhelmingly excited if I was:yup: However I am not very familier with the Old Testament I have not read it. I only got through the New Testament and would love to start reading the Old Testament if I had one in English

 

[a_slave_of_God]

In the Koran it is clear that allah does not know the key tenets of Christian orthodox belief. Muhammad thought Christians believe in THREE GODS: Father, Son and Virgin Mary.

Again i want to Correct the Sura of Quran, the Catholic Church Believe in the TRINITY… …I think the author of Quran have no complete Idea about the Church he attacking!

Glorified and High Exalted is Allah, Above what the headless think about Him.

Now, before we go on and reply to the false posts of yours, we need to give you a quick lecture about the holy spirit?

The holy spirit is the angel Gabrial PBUH.

This angel is the one whom Allah sent to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammad and to all the prophets peace be upon them.

All the angels are slaves for their Creator.

God said what means:
171. O people of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, (“Be!” - and he was) which He bestowed on Mary and a spirit from Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: “Three (trinity)!” Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

1. The Messiah will never be proud to reject to be a slave to Allâh, nor the angels who are near (to Allâh). And whosoever rejects His worship and is proud, then He will gather them all together unto Himself.
2. So, as for those who believed (in the Oneness of Allâh - Islâmic Monotheism) and did deeds of righteousness, He will give their (due) rewards, and more out of His Bounty. But as for those who refuse His worship and were proud, He will punish them with a painful torment . And they will not find for themselves besides Allâh any protector or helper.
3. O mankind! Verily, there has come to you a convincing proof (Prophet Muhammad PBUH) from your Lord, and We sent down to you a manifest light (this Qur’ân).
4. So, as for those who believed in Allâh and held fast to Him, He will admit them to His Mercy and Grace (i.e. Paradise), and guide them to Himself by a Straight Path.

The Verses Above mentioned that the massiah and the angels who are near to Allah (indication to the holy spirit, who is one of the nearest angels to Allah Glory be to Him) will not be proud to reject to be slaves to God.

So, it is exactly the trinity which you claim: God whom you call the Father, jesus and the holy spirit who is the nearest angel to God.

I think christians need to read the whole Quran, not only one part they have no idea about the wisdom of its chosen words.

There were some christians who considered Jesus and Mary as 2 gods, there is a reply for them in the Quran, and that reply condemn the other christian faith as well, see [5: 116]

And here is the summary for the whole christianity:
72. Surely, they have disbelieved who say: “Allâh is the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary).” But the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus)] said: “O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord.” Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong*doers) there are no helpers.

1. Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is a third of three. " But there is no ilâh (god) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.

74. Will they not repent to Allâh and ask His Forgiveness? For Allâh is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.

1. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam (Mary)] was a Siddiqah *. They both used to eat food. Look how We make the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to them, yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth).
2. Say (O Muhammad PBUH to mankind): “How do you worship besides Allâh something which has no power either to harm or to benefit you? But it is Allâh Who is the All Hearer, All Knower.”
3. Say (O Muhammad PBUH): “O people of the Scripture! Exceed not the limits in your religion (by believing in something) other than the truth, and do not follow the vain desires of people who went astray in times gone by, and who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the Right Path.” *

Dhugz criticised the Teacher of the Quran the Wise remembrance. Therefore,

he himself said that he is FOOL. Therefore he himself is the mixture of truth and Falsehood!

And we expect the FOOL to say

I think, the Quran is actually the Book of Fallacy while the BIBLE is the Book Truth!

if these people talked about Allah politely, they would be in the safe side, but they have attacked The Light, so they shall be fired by The Light they oppose.

Blessed be Allah, The Lord of the Worlds.

 

[a_slave_of_God]

Unlike the Muslim world where religious-criticism cannot be tolerated… of course… because that would mean the end of Islam.

Jesus said:
''Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come." [Matthew 12:32]

May be you are in doubt about your religion! but we are confident and pleased with our religion.

Allah Magnified be His Majesty is The Creator, The Peace and The Just, we must obey Him and submit ourselves to Him, but those who are morally inadequate by any ethical and moral standard oppose Him and describe Him according to what they see in themselves. We don’t welcome such low evil creatures.

Your scripture testifies to a god who was very influenced by the passions and lusts of men of flesh

it is not my scripture that claims that Allah has begotten a son, Glorified and Exalted is Allah above such things.

My God is Allah, The Holy, The One, The Irresistable.

Bismillahi Arrahmani Arraheem1. Qul: whoua Allahu Ahad
2. Allah-us-Samad
3. Lam yaled, walam youlad
4. walam yakun lahou kufuwan Ahad.

means:
In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

1. Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allâh, (the) One and Only.
2. "Allâh is The Absolute, The Eternal.
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. “And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.”

You remain slaves, according to your self.

I am not arrogant to reject to be a slave for my Creator, Indeed Allah is my Master and my Lord and I love Him very much.
Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the worlds.

He is not an abstractum like your allah who never answers prayers and whose favour is conditioned by your good deeds.

Allah is Above what you think and imagine.

Just because you don’t believe in the Hereafter, doesn’t mean that Allah doesn’t answer prayers.

No prayer will be lost at all. My Lord answers all the prayers and it is one of 3 conditions:

1. Either Allah will answer it in this life as He did with many people and I am a witness for that as it happenned for me many times by His Mercy.
2. Or to protect them from a harm or a disaster of equal weight to that goodness which we asked Him for.
3. Or He will multiply the reward for them and they will find their prayers answered in the Hereafter.

Allah knows better what is good for us and we trust Him, we are believers, but you are not.

We know that allah is not God because allah is morally inadequate by any ethical and moral standard, why also the Muslim world is one of suffering and darkness

We know that the ignorant know the false idea, they have nothing but errors, so we expect you to say such things.

Glorified and Highly Exalted is Allah, Above what the ignorant think about Him.

We don’t lower ourselves to your standards.

Allah is The One who put the standards and it is He who created huminity. we take the standards from Him The All Mighty The All Wise.

Forget the day of judgment as you wish and increase in sins and crimes, you will come to know.

1. For those who believe not in the Hereafter is an evil description, and for Allâh is the Highest Description. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
2. And if Allâh were to seize mankind for their wrong-doing, He would not leave on it (the earth) a single moving (living) creature, but He postpones them for an appointed term and when their term comes, neither can they delay nor can they advance it an hour.
3. They assign to Allâh that which they dislike (for themselves), and their tongues assert the falsehood that the better things will be theirs. No doubt for them is the Fire, and they will be the first to be hastened on into it, and left there neglected.

 

[a_slave_of_God]

Thanks for starting this interesting thread, Slave of God. I am not a Muslim, but I can still respect at least the degree of your devotion, and the opening post contained some very beautiful lines.

Thank you very much dear dzheremi, may Allah reward you a good reward.

25. And Allâh calls to the home of peace and guides whom He wills to a Straight Path.

Peace.

 

[Jay53]

Now, before we go on and reply to the false posts of yours, we need to give you a quick lecture about the holy spirit?

The holy spirit is the angel Gabrial PBUH.

This angel is the one whom Allah sent to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammad and to all the prophets peace be upon them.

All the angels are slaves for their Creator.

The Verses Above mentioned that the massiah and the angels who are near to Allah (indication to the holy spirit, who is one of the nearest angels to Allah Glory be to Him) will not be proud to reject to be slaves to God.

So, it is exactly the trinity which you claim: God whom you call the Father, jesus and the holy spirit who is the nearest angel to God.
I think christians need to read the whole Quran, not only one part they have no idea about the wisdom of its chosen words.

There were some christians who considered Jesus and Mary as 2 gods, there is a reply for them in the Quran, and that reply condemn the other christian faith as well, see [5: 116]

You are mistaken. The Holy Spirit IS NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN the Angel Gabriel!!! Muhammad was wrong when he wrote that! The Holy Spirit IS and HAS ALWAYS BEEN God.

 

[planten]

You are mistaken. The Holy Spirit IS NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN the Angel Gabriel!!! Muhammad was wrong when he wrote that! The Holy Spirit IS and HAS ALWAYS BEEN God.

Jay, The slave of God is right. Holy spirit or holy ghost is not God. Otherwise there will be too many gods. Can you give some support to your belief that Holy ghost is God?? Can you do it primarily from the bibleOT?? I would like to learn something about your ghost from the bibleOT please. Otherwise you have no ghost.

 

[Jay53]

Jay, The slave of God is right. Holy spirit or holy ghost is not God. Otherwise there will be too many gods. Can you give some support to your belief that Holy ghost is God?? Can you do it primarily from the bibleOT?? I would like to learn something about your ghost from the bibleOT please. Otherwise you have no ghost.

Planten, slave of God is not right. He/she has indicated that the Trinity is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit i.e. the Angel Gabriel and I was pointing out that in Christian belief the Angel Gabriel HAS NEVER been God or the Holy Spirit. That was Muhammad’s mistake, along with his veiled assertion that Blessed Mother was also part of the Trinity (although Muslims today seem to assert that there was a very small group of heretical Christians that did worship Blessed Mother and that is who Allah is referring to in the Quran. )

As for your other request, the Trinity has been explained on these forums numerous times and I don’t have the time to do it again right now - you may search for it if you truly are interested in learning, although, given the tenor of many of your recent posts I suspect you are not.

 

[GraceDK]

**GraceDK, you have challenged me to come on other thread to discuss things. Perhaps you remember we had a dialogue before in which I said I will not bother you any more. There is too much difference of opinion.

I do not mind peaceful discussion.

1. You can tell the topic and not to change the topic.
2. The discussion will only be from Quran and bibleNT.
3. No abuse of any nature of any prophet or man of God.
4. You please read my earlier post again to understand some basic beliefs.
5. Let me know the topic.
6. I will ask you some questions too to judge your balance of mind.
7. There should be nothing unusual or irrational.

If there is going to be any useful result, there is no problem to discuss. But please remember that if you do not believe that Quran is word of God then I will also not believe that bible is word of God. If you do not believe that Muhammad is a man of God, I will also not believe that Jesus is God or son of God. If you believe that Muhammad was a bad man then I will also believe that Jesus was a false man.

Welcome and set your topic and start your thread and let me know the thread. Please do not let any other bad natured spoiled sick Christian to enter the debate with any abuse. That will be your responsibility. Welcome.**

Planten.
Hey… yeah I thought we had a “past” … however I did not recall you being a Muslim.

I follow your criterias and I follow until nr. 3. All over the world people are threatened with fatwas, torture and execution because they question the morality of your prophet and thus consequently also the legitimicy of the revelation he claimed to deliver. The cartoons of Muhammad, which indicated Islam was about violence, was met by violent protests all over the Muslim world. In religious insanity they went and burned embassies, killing and attacking Christians, because a man had made a drawing of Muhammad with a bomb in his hat. The drawing thus proved true… and the criticism of Islam is as important as any freedom fight that has been before. Former muslims say islam is dehumanising and I believe them.
I believe not only in freedom of speech but also in religious freedom ( not permitted in Islam unless its conversion TO Islam). Your Hadith tells us of a man who was, by postmodern standards, to be described as a warlord, a phedofile, a man who condoned torture and mutilation besides the reasonable Christian claim that he was a religious fraud, leading astray millions, causing the death of thousands throughout history.

So no. I will not engage you in a deate where truth cannot be said. As for God. I believe in Him and Love Him and His Beauty and Truth. So you need not worry that I say something against Him. I try to tell you off His Goodness because He changed my life and I know who He is.

I also have a problem with criteria nr. 7. You say I must say nothing unusual or irrational. To me Christ is unusual in a huge sense. The whole salvation history and even our existence is something awestriking.
Irrational… I believe God created reason and that Islam is one of the biggest opponents of reason, which is one of the reasons why it is a dangerous ideology.

So yes, with all due respect. I must decline further debate with you. You do not rule over me and thus I still have freedom of faith and speech as a democratic person in my country.

Peace on you and your house and may the God who is Love transform your heart.

 

[Booklover]

Planten.
Hey… yeah I thought we had a “past” … however I did not recall you being a Muslim.

I follow your criterias and I follow until nr. 3. All over the world people are threatened with fatwas, torture and execution because they question the morality of your prophet and thus consequently also the legitimicy of the revelation he claimed to deliver. The cartoons of Muhammad, which indicated Islam was about violence, was met by violent protests all over the Muslim world. In religious insanity they went and burned embassies, killing and attacking Christians, because a man had made a drawing of Muhammad with a bomb in his hat. The drawing thus proved true… and the criticism of Islam is as important as any freedom fight that has been before. Former muslims say islam is dehumanising and I believe them.
I believe not only in freedom of speech but also in religious freedom ( not permitted in Islam unless its conversion TO Islam). Your Hadith tells us of a man who was, by postmodern standards, to be described as a warlord, a phedofile, a man who condoned torture and mutilation besides the reasonable Christian claim that he was a religious fraud, leading astray millions, causing the death of thousands throughout history.

So no. I will not engage you in a deate where truth cannot be said. As for God. I believe in Him and Love Him and His Beauty and Truth. So you need not worry that I say something against Him. I try to tell you off His Goodness because He changed my life and I know who He is.

I also have a problem with criteria nr. 7. You say I must say nothing unusual or irrational. To me Christ is unusual in a huge sense. The whole salvation history and even our existence is something awestriking.
Irrational… I believe God created reason and that Islam is one of the biggest opponents of reason, which is one of the reasons why it is a dangerous ideology.

So yes, with all due respect. I must decline further debate with you. You do not rule over me and thus I still have freedom of faith and speech as a democratic person in my country.

Peace on you and your house and may the God who is Love transform your heart.

Wow! :clapping: :dancing:

Vickie

 

[planten]

Planten, slave of God is not right. He/she has indicated that the Trinity is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit i.e. the Angel Gabriel and I was pointing out that in Christian belief the Angel Gabriel HAS NEVER been God or the Holy Spirit. That was Muhammad’s mistake, along with his veiled assertion that Blessed Mother was also part of the Trinity (although Muslims today seem to assert that there was a very small group of heretical Christians that did worship Blessed Mother and that is who Allah is referring to in the Quran. )

As for your other request, the Trinity has been explained on these forums numerous times and I don’t have the time to do it again right now - you may search for it if you truly are interested in learning, although, given the tenor of many of your recent posts I suspect you are not.

**Jay, I have noted that you have some understanding of Islam. We know that you take Trinity as the Father, the son and the holy ghost. That is your belief. We Muslims do not have Trinity. We also do not believe the holy spirit to be a god. We believe that holy spirit is a blessed angel of God. That much you also know but you do not agree to that.

We Muslims believe that some sects in the very old times worshipped mother Mary as they try to hold her in great esteem (near to the point of worship.) even today. Because the catholics pray to her. That is enough to prove that they worship her. Prayer can only be to God. So Mary is approached as if she is a goddess.

If the son of God (Jesus) can be a god then why cannot the mother of god (mary) be a goddess?

So Quran is not wrong in accusing the christians about worshipping Mary. Even if the question is asked from the Catholics today, they will give a mixed reply. Only a few will deny the worship of Mary.

Now about your ghost. I never heard anything about it in the bibleOT. That was the problem. I feel that only the catholics have got that ghost and it was not a part of anything in the past, in bibleOT. It is your duty to support your ghost from bibleOT please. Otherwise I see that you have invented the entire ghost business.

I feel that slave of God (Abd Allah) was right and so is the Quran.**

 

[GraceDK]

a slave of God;
Jesus said:
''Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come." [Matthew 12:32]

Yes. The context is this: Some religious leaders in fact indicated that the Spirit in Jesus was unclean. That is the sin against the Holy Spirit. To say the Spirit in Jesus is not of God. Because the Spirit of Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
I don’t say you comitted this sin though.

May be you are in doubt about your religion! but we are confident and pleased with our religion.

I am not in doubt about my Lord, thank you. I am pleased with my Lord and God and know for a fact He loves me unconditionally and dearly. He also loves you, even if you are in error. Because He created you and guides you, even through the darkness, so that you may one day see Him. I am confident that He will transform even your current tribulations into light.

Allah Magnified be His Majesty is The Creator, The Peace and The Just, we must obey Him and submit ourselves to Him, but those who are morally inadequate by any ethical and moral standard oppose Him and describe Him according to what they see in themselves. We don’t welcome such low evil creatures.

Christianity teaches the absolute dignity of each and every human being. Therefore we cannot use the hateful language you use. We know we are saved by Christ, not through our own good deeds, but because of His Grace …He has loved us so much that He gave His own Life for us so we can live with Him in eternity.
You too are morally inadequate by certain moral standards. The Holy Bible says: “The one who says he has no sin is a liar and the truth is not in him”. Alas, how will you find mercy if you are not ready to admit you are a sinner? You must learn humility and true repentance.

it is not my scripture that claims that Allah has begotten a son, Glorified and Exalted is Allah above such things.

What do you mean by begotten? I have a feeling you misunderstand the Christian belief just like your prophet in fact did.

In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

1. Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allâh, (the) One and Only.
   2(…)
2. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;

Yes, God is One. But He is not only ONE, He is also GOOD and HOLY. Muhammad was not good, and the religion and ideology he founded was and is morally lacking in all sorts of ways.

I am not arrogant to reject to be a slave for my Creator, Indeed Allah is my Master and my Lord and I love Him..

A slave is not a bad thing in itself to begin with. What is sad is to remain a slave when God has called you to be a friend or even a son or daugther.

Just because you don’t believe in the Hereafter, doesn’t mean that Allah doesn’t answer prayers.


I do believe the True God hears and answers prayers. He even hears and answers the prayers of Muslims. That does not mean they know His true identity and heart, though.
I also believe that heaven and hell exist. I don’t know where you got the idea that I dont.

Allah knows better what is good for us and we trust Him, we are believers, but you are not.

I am a believer. But I don’t believe in your Allah. I believe there are some good things in Islam, but so was there in other false religious and political systems throughout history. Only Christ is perfect.

We know that the ignorant know the false idea, they have nothing but errors, so we expect you to say such things.

Okay. So my question is. Since I am scum in your eyes. Why do you speak to me? Why are you here? Why do you voluntarity go to a place like this which is full of people who are “ignorant” because they, through serious prayer and study of the Islam have found it to be an error?
Is it because you dont dare to meet the honest eyes of my brethren face to face, that you sit here?
You cannot possibly think anyone here is going to become a Muslim based on your hit-and-run tactics which has no resemblance of rational discussion.

**
We don’t lower ourselves to your standards.**

My standard is Christ. I know I am a mere creature and sinner, so your words do not disappoint me. I point to Christ Jesus alone. You cannot read about Him that He did anything violent or selfish or mean to anyone while he walked in Gallelee and Jerusalem. Him I follow because He alone is good, and He alone is trustworthy.

Allah is The One who put the standards and it is He who created huminity. we take the standards from Him.

And what if -hypothetically - the allpowerful is evil? Will you follow a person just because he has power, or will you follow him because he is good?

Forget the day of judgment as you wish and increase in sins and crimes, you will come to know. They assign to Allâh that which they dislike (for themselves), and their tongues assert the falsehood (…)for them is the Fire, and they will be the first to be hastened on into it.

I am well aware of the day of judgment. Christ is the Truth. He will be my judge and I am not afraid of Him for He loves me and has told me so, so many times
You seem almost triumphant that I may roost in hell. But I know where I am going, Through the Only Door to heaven. Christ. So you need not worry about me.

Peace to you now
And.I do think we should put our discussion on hold until you 1) choose to really answer the errors of the Koran that have been shown, 2) think independantly and according to your consciense daring to test your own religion, 3) and do so with charity, not attacking or judging my person - which you have no authority to do anyway - and start to focus on the points in question.

 

[planten]

GraceDK:

Hey… yeah I thought we had a “past” … however I did not recall you being a Muslim.

I follow your criterias and I follow until nr. 3. All over the world people are threatened with fatwas, torture and execution because they question the morality of your prophet and thus consequently also the legitimicy of the revelation he claimed to deliver…

**Thanks GraceDK. You have relieved me very quickly by bailing out from your intended debate. You are interested in abusing some one (Our prophet). You are not interested in discussing from Quran and bible only. You are interested in using Hadith too.

Well, good. Would you allow me to question you about any unusual (illegal) birth too? Would you allow me happily to use the Da Vinci Code too. or any other malafide material that I may find about jesus and Mary?

If you are an honest person then you will say “Yes” you will allow me. I have enough material from the bibleNT to bring you down on your knees and I do not need to resort to any other book. But since you are intent to use man made books (hadith) for discussion then I should also have the freedom to use any man made books. Do you agree.

You gave the challenge. But you seem to have backed out too quickly. What do you say? You are stuck and intent on abusing. Forget the cartoons or what the muslims are doing in return. That is none of your business. It has nothing to do with our discussion.

You should come in the field with your bible. I will come with the Quran. And no abuse of Muhammad or Jesus or Mary. Do you agree? Welcome. It is my second call.**

 

[jakasaki]

**

**I have enough material from the bibleNT to bring you down on your knees ****and I do not need to resort to any other book.

My dear Planten:

You can never bring us “down to our knees” with “your material”…

Like some other posters have said to you… “please stop making a fool out of yourself”…

TGIF!

 

[Booklover]

Thanks GraceDK. You have relieved me very quickly by bailing out from your intended debate. You are interested in abusing some one (Our prophet). You are not interested in discussing from Quran and bible only. You are interested in using Hadith too.

Well, good. Would you allow me to question you about any unusual (illegal) birth too? Would you allow me happily to use the Da Vinci Code too. or any other malafide material that I may find about jesus and Mary?

If you are an honest person then you will say “Yes” you will allow me. I have enough material from the bibleNT to bring you down on your knees and I do not need to resort to any other book. But since you are intent to use man made books (hadith) for discussion then I should also have the freedom to use any man made books. Do you agree.

You gave the challenge. But you seem to have backed out too quickly. What do you say? You are stuck and intent on abusing. Forget the cartoons or what the muslims are doing in return. That is none of your business. It has nothing to do with our discussion.

You should come in the field with your bible. I will come with the Quran. And no abuse of Muhammad or Jesus or Mary. Do you agree? Welcome. It is my second call.

Planten are you for real, or just a robot programmed to post the same old nonsense over and over again? You never answer anything, just keep attacking those who do not agree with your perception of Muhammad, Islam or the Quran. You claim to love Jesus, but whenever someone points to something bad Muhammad did, you start your attacks on Jesus as well. What hypocrisy! And yes, your blind faith in Muhammad and Islam has rendered you incapable of any rational thinking as Grace has already pointed out.

Vickie

 

[M0nkey]

We believe that holy spirit is a blessed angel of God. That much you also know but you do not agree to that.

You have have missed some cardinal aspects of the OT. It talks specifically about ‘the spirit of the Lord.’ Go back and read the Genesis account and you will see that the spirit of the Lord was over the waters before the earth was formed. Something that I think your prophet copied directly from the Bible.

We Muslims believe that some sects in the very old times worshipped mother Mary as they try to hold her in great esteem (near to the point of worship.) even today.

True, but they were deemed heretical and neo-pagan. Even today the Church stands in the truth that Mary is the mother of God, the theotokos, but she is a creature not God.

If the son of God (Jesus) can be a god then why cannot the mother of god (mary) be a goddess?

Because Jesus is the ONLY begotten Son. Mary on the other hand is still in need of a redeemer.

Now about your ghost. I never heard anything about it in the bibleOT.

Have you ever read the Bible? I commend you to read the Psalms, read Judges, etc., focus particularly on the aspects of God, e,g., Yaweh (Father), the Word of God (Son), and the Spirit of the Lord (Holy Spirit).

God Bless

 

[a_slave_of_God]

I appologize that was my mistake, I meant to say 3 persons = 1 being, 3=1 doesn’t make sense. Unless ofcourse you mean each person represents 1/3 of the being or essense as you put it, that is to say the being is not complete in each of them, the esssense is only complete when they unite, but how do they unite? its not a physical unity as we know they are seperate individual persons.

you only believe it because it is written somewhere, you havn’t proved it to yourself, in fact it is not possible to prove the trinity so you believe on blind faith alone by taking the word of someone simply becuase they said it.

thank you for the contibution famdigy.

May Allah guide you more and more till you become as Abu bakr and Umar and Aysha and Ali peace be upon them.