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M0nkey
Guest
And can you tell me what this fulfillment could mean? Other than the fact that He is the Messiah and the Son of the Living God.
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famdigy
Guest
I AM can mean anything you want it to mean, it’s open to interpretation. There is a 4th possibility which you have ignored and that is Jesus’ words were misquoted and misinterpreted, that is because the Bible’s authors did not live close to Jesus, they were not eye witnesses. The Bible as we have it today is a collection of stories passed on orally from person to person.
There is a place for Jesus in Islam, he is loved and respected by all Muslims, you will never find any Muslim who insults or disrespects Jesus.
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M0nkey
Guest
Well, not exactly. Saint Mark was there when Jesus got arrested (in his own written gospel, he is the one that got away naked), St. John was His beloved disciple and stood at the foot of the cross, St. James was called brother of thunder and one the twelve, the list goes on and on … these eye witnesses knew Jesus in the flesh and now give testimony to His Resurrection in the NT. Also, there were over 500 hundred witnesses who saw Jesus after the gruesome death on the cross, which would indicate that this is in fact a historical event.
Again, Jesus is either right, or an impostor. You can’t have it however way you want.
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a_slave_of_God
Guest
Lies. Nothing of what you said is correct.
Prophet Mohammad ,prayer and peace be upon him and his family, fight only for the Just.
God created the universe, so it is He who must be worshipped alone, God did punish the disbelievers throughout the history by a punishment from Himself or at the hand of His Soldiers like Moses, David and Mohammad prayer and peace be upon them.
Lies. He never steal anything. He was stolen he and his followers and they were driven out of their own land by the pagans of Makkah.
Marriage for human being is a project to build life and Mohammad built the life of Aysha and her family and left them up to his level and granted them of his light and sweetness.
She is no longer a child, you might be, but she became a mother of believers and a star leading to paradise due to the light of Mr. Mohammad prayer and peace be upon him and his family.
She and her family were glad and very happy since that time.
Do you want to destroy their happiness?
Also, no one of prophet Mohammad’s enemy found that insulting, they didn’t even think in the manner a disbelievers after 1400 years are thinking.
If Aysha was alive today, she would say to those who disagree with her marriage to the prophet PBUH: this is not your business, get out of my life.
God made it lawful for him, but not lawful for us.
We are satisfied with what God does, He is our Lord and we are satisfied with Him.
It was hard for the prophet to do so, but his status is not more important than the order of God, so he had to do it and let the people say what they are going to say against him.
As a result of what happpenned, the idea of considering adopted sons as the real sons was collapsed and God ordered the prophet to call his adopted son to his father as it is the Truth.
Whatever the prophet take, it is absolutly good for us, because he spend what he has to enhance our lives, he doesn’t hold anything for himself.
Show me one person asked the prophet and the prophet didn’t give him/her.
He once appeared with a nice burda (a type of clothes) and it was new and very beautiful, then one of the people said to him: give me this one O Allah’s messenger, the prophet said: yes and gave it to him and sat with the people with his old clothes.
- And if you (O Muhammad PBUH) turn away from them awaiting a mercy from your Lord for which you hope, then, speak unto them a soft kind word (i.e. Allâh will give me and I shall give you).
Peace.
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dzheremi
Guest
Why do Muslims reinvent all creation for the benefit of Muhammad? I don’t understand this. What does approving of the behavior of the prophet down to the most minute detail have to do with practicing monotheism or following God?
Muslims are fond of bringing up behavior of OT figures in the Bible that they think mirrors Muhammad’s behavior so as to “prove” that we can have no justifiable basis to object to the person of Muhammad or his behavior. What they do not seem to understand is that in the OT as in the NT many figures were shown with all their flaws so as to provide examples for us through their bad behavior, and the struggle to correct it (or the righteous punishment that follows it). David’s actions regarding Bathsheba bring a curse upon his house. If David’s action with Bathsheba were instead converted to a righteous act by virtue of his identity as a great man and that God allowed it, what sort of lesson would be learned? That it is okay to murder another man and take his wife? What kind of a lesson is that?! Obviously, it was not be so, as the child resulting from David’s union with Bathsheba died of illness shortly after birth, a fact that David accepted as divine punishment.
So it is with Muhammad. Because Muslims hold his behavior and person as sacrosanct (after all, God allowed it), we see in the Qur’an and Hadith much behavior and many lessons that contradict what is in previous scriptures. And should anyone bring up these descripancies with regard to Muhammad as a supposed prophet of the one, eternal God, we are reminded that Muhammad is allowed by divine decree what is disallowed to the rest of humanity.
Now…in light of all this, would anyone care to remind us all what happened to Muhammad’s sons Qasim and Abdallah? As I was told, they both died in childhood…strangely familiar, isn’t it?
Muslims are fond of bringing up behavior of OT figures in the Bible that they think mirrors Muhammad’s behavior so as to “prove” that we can have no justifiable basis to object to the person of Muhammad or his behavior. What they do not seem to understand is that in the OT as in the NT many figures were shown with all their flaws so as to provide examples for us through their bad behavior, and the struggle to correct it (or the righteous punishment that follows it). David’s actions regarding Bathsheba bring a curse upon his house. If David’s action with Bathsheba were instead converted to a righteous act by virtue of his identity as a great man and that God allowed it, what sort of lesson would be learned? That it is okay to murder another man and take his wife? What kind of a lesson is that?! Obviously, it was not be so, as the child resulting from David’s union with Bathsheba died of illness shortly after birth, a fact that David accepted as divine punishment.
So it is with Muhammad. Because Muslims hold his behavior and person as sacrosanct (after all, God allowed it), we see in the Qur’an and Hadith much behavior and many lessons that contradict what is in previous scriptures. And should anyone bring up these descripancies with regard to Muhammad as a supposed prophet of the one, eternal God, we are reminded that Muhammad is allowed by divine decree what is disallowed to the rest of humanity.
Now…in light of all this, would anyone care to remind us all what happened to Muhammad’s sons Qasim and Abdallah? As I was told, they both died in childhood…strangely familiar, isn’t it?
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Verisimilitude
Guest
Nothing I said is a lie and you do not dispute any of it, only excuse each illicit act as approved by the god of the Quran. The God of Abraham does not excuse or permit evil.
He fought for profit and political power not because he was a prophet or altruistic.
Because Moses and David killed other human beings, sometimes (not always) for Gods purpose such as when Israel (Hebrew) leaving Egypt or, aquiring the land Promised (Israel) to them (Jews) by God, they are not glorified or excused for killing other human beings like Islam does for Mohammed. Moses did not enter the land promised and David ws not permitted to build God’s Temple. War fighting for the faith is not the what the Bible teaches in this age or the age of Mohammed, or Jesus, David, Moses, Abraham.
No lie. If Mohammed took something that did not belong to him by force or threat of it; that is stealing. He took the goods of many caravans, villages, and individuals as slaves and wives/concubines not in the name of any need, justice or retribution, but revenge and power.
No Moslem died in the years of ‘persecution’ and Mohammed sent them away because of a boycott; they were not forced away or driven out of their own land. Mohammeds pagan family protected him until he ran away himself.
You go to great lengths to excuse it, but not deny it.
God did not make lawful even temporarily anything for any previous legitimate prophet that is unlawful for everyone else. This is why Jesus is not considered a prophet, but much more; God. When Jesus was accused of breaking the law of the Sabbath by His disciples picking corn to feed themselves, His answer should satisfy you but you believe only the accusation as guilt of a sin (minor) but excused by God to think the same about Mohammed being excused. The accusation is not against Jesus because He is not violating the sabbath by doing work Himself but that others are violating the sabbath in His name.
Indefensible as you seem to admit though still excused.
That is very sad.
Mohammed took things in unjust wars and that is stealing. 20% when there was 3000 soldiers was one thing, but 20% when it got to be 30,000 or 300,000 is another.
I could quote some hadith of people asking for their life and Mohammed refused them, but you will say it is not accepted or I must read it in Arabic to get the full meaning. No thanks.
He once sent assassins to kill a woman sleeping in bed with her children.
Who is ‘them’?
I have read the Quran 3 times now and I see the behaviour of Mohammed in it and in the Moslem world today and in history. I do not exuse it. It is not logical.
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famdigy
Guest
What I meant to say was the Mark, John, ect… didn’t write their Gospels. The Gospel according to Mark wasn’t penned until some 60 years after the fact, the testimony is not directly from Mark, rather, it is a story from person to person to person who finally wrote it down and then later the title of “Gospel according to Mark” was added and attributed to Mark. Mark himself never wrote any of the gospel attributed to him, nor did anybody who saw or lived with Mark, rather it was written down by Greeks who were at least a generation or more removed from the time of Jesus (as) and the disciples.
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M0nkey
Guest
Are you into rewriting history to believe your own devices? St. Mark clearly wrote the gospel himself with aid from St. Peter, these two were directly connected with the Christ whilst He was in the flesh. The same goes for other sacred writers. Have you any sources to back up your lies?
One thing I don’t quite get, what’s with believing Jesus was misunderstood? He sure didn’t do anything to rectify it, and why would there be a great number of martyrs for the crucified one? Why would He Resurrect? Even secular sources give an insight that the early Church did believe in Him, and continued to proclaim the name. Not to mention, the early Church wasn’t even Greek, but it began in Jerusalem.
Believe what you must, but the Jesus you have come to know is not the real Jesus Christ.
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R_not
Guest
mohammed did worse. He tortured a man for his loot, had an old man over 100 years old and young woman still suckling her baby assasinated, broke cease fire treaties and then went in and beheaded the men and looted and enslaved the rest, he lied and told his followers to lie if it is to their advantage, he had people stoned for what he did - took another’s wife and to get around that he just said that ‘allah said it was ok’ (I paraphrase), and basically used a god to justify his actions.
He would go in and burn orchards which in those days was a very, terrible thing to do. He would attack cities and mostly caravans that were not heavily armed and had women and children so as to take them as slaves - and the caravans he would take all the goods. He had a man tortured and then murdered because he stole one of the camels that he himself stole from someone else.
And all of this he did AFTER he started up his religion. And then he committed so many sins that he had to redefine sin and that is why it is ok to do those things that mohammed did to unbelievers - to this very day. He divided the world up into believers/unbelievers and in order to make it easier to hate the unbelievers he dehumanizes them. And he gave the ones who didn’t want to openly fight a way out too - muslim charities and moral support and to use deception whenever needed.
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a_slave_of_God
Guest
Indeed, Allah is Greater.
I, too, bear witness that there is no god but Allah.
May Allah reward you a good reward for this goodness.
meaningless, I don’t understand such word, could you explain it?
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Reuben_J
Guest
What really strikes with Muslims/Islam is their immunity to be scandalized with Mohammad’s sins. The fact that they see him having sex with a nine-year or having multiple wives and concubines (slaves whom he could have sex with) as if they were normal occurrence makes you think that sins mean nothing to them.
Muslims know pretty well that God never did teach on polygamy. They only postulate that just because kings and patriarchs had more than one wives therefore polygamy is sanctioned by God.
Very dangerous practice indeed especially since they modeled their actions on the life of Mohammad. Thus sins become unimportant, insignificant and not to be afraid of simply because Mohammad did them.
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GraceDK
Guest
Very true… It’s striking what brainwashing is going on everywhere even today.
Muhammad’s phedofilia reminds me of the cult leaders that exhaust and manipulate their followers until the women voluntarily sleep with the leader and call it an honour for themselves. They have become so darkened in their mind and been told a lie so effectively that they have left their own heart, own brain, and own conscience outside the door.
Is so incredibly GROSS. How can the Muslims here not admit it? I pray to God that when the Muslims, who so stubbornly call good “evil” and evil “good” on these boards, are home at night they wonder and question in their hearts, because there is no way their God-created conscience can bear to accept such evil and deception continuously.
I hope they really start asking themselves some honest questions soon…
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planten
Guest
Yes, MOnkey, Mark and Peter and Mathew and Luke were men who made the book. It was not from God and not dictated by Jesus too. It was some ispiration (inside idea) of the writers. Nothing divine.
Nothing of the sort. The teaching of Jesus perfect and different to what you are teaching today. The people believed in Jesus and loved him and gave their life too for the sake of truth, for the love of Jesus. But it was not what you have in the bible today.
**Thank you for letting us believe in a Jesus, the son of Mary. There may be a doubt as to whose son was Jesus. But there cannot be any doubt that he was the son of a woman. He was the son of Mary. That is how he is addressed every where in the Quran. In the bible also he is never addressed as the son of God. He is calling The God as his father, in some good sense. But The God never addressed Jesus in the bible as His son. Some one had made up a sentence and inserted in the book haphazardly at one place only.
God never said, “O my son, Jesus…”
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workingman
Guest
No it was not a inside idea. The scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Show me proof other wise.
Realy our teachings to day are different than what Jesus taught? Prove it. Do you own a Bible in Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek in the original text that shows this to be true?
How many times does God speak in the NT? I also see no reference to you god in the Bible.
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planten
Guest
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dzheremi
Guest
Wrong again, my friend. I present to you Matthew 3:16-17 (which I am sure you will immediately reject, but it is in the NT, so it satisfies your own parameters):
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workingman
Guest
So you hold no Bible. So you realy don’t know what it says then. When the Bible is translated we go back to the original language. We do not persay go from German to English.
What doe Eli Eli mean.
So you acknowludge the Bible is the devine word of God then. Ok lets nit pick the word. The Christian Bible is the difinitive Word of God. No other book is. This includes the Qu’arn.
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dzheremi
Guest
Jharek, your Planten impression is getting pretty good, but I would work in some references to how “dirty” Christians are because Planten’s friend’s sister’s boss’s cousin’s nephew’s uncle went to France (or Germany, or Ireland, or Britain, or the USA) once and was propositioned for gay sex outside of a cathedral by a prostitute who just happened to be wearing a giant cross and maybe also had ashes on his forehead. We are all familiar, after all, with the weekly, nay, daily struggle through the gauntlet of prostitutes and unwed mothers that crowd church parking lots across the globe. Sometimes I pay them just to move out of the way so I can get into my car…
(Disclaimer: I am joking, obviously, but more disturbingly I really think this is a fair approximation of how Planten imagines life in the nominally “Christian”, practicing agnostic/atheist West)
(Disclaimer: I am joking, obviously, but more disturbingly I really think this is a fair approximation of how Planten imagines life in the nominally “Christian”, practicing agnostic/atheist West)
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M0nkey
Guest
Actually, I challenge you to read the gospel of Mark, it’s only 16 chapters long so it should be a quick read. It’s mentioned multiple times, and in many different ways so your mind may understand. You see, Jesus’ Lordship is a promise God made to His servant David, so He is the rightful heir to the throne. The son of David who will live forever, will live forever and ever. St. Mark takes us on a journey that slowly unpacks these mysteries of this reality. I tell you, it changed my life!
I was on my knees praying for you and you Muslims this morning. Had to listen to Him as to why so many deny His existence given the substantiated evidence and historical data, then, I quickly became overwhelmed by the realization that HE LOVES ME, and that is all I ever need. Simplicity in truth, overly profound in meaning.
You see, God condescended, came down from heaven and died up on a cross and resurrected on the third day so that you and I may be saved. Something to be amazed at.
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planten
Guest
**dzhereme, I do not remember any gay around any cathedral. I and my family, all lit some candles at the Notre Dame (Our fair Lady) Cathedral in Paris for the love of Mother Mary.
But I remember one of my friends who got tired walking about in Paris. He sat down on a bench on Champs de Elysees (Spelling??.) Immediately a gay man arrived to settle a deal with my friend. My friend had to get up and run from that place.**
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