Allah should not be called Father!

[DonProfondo]

Arguing with a Muslim about theology is like trying to nail Jello to a wall, only not as much fun, and possibly even less useful.

 

[jonfan]

Arguing with a Muslim about theology is like trying to nail Jello to a wall, only not as much fun, and possibly even less useful.

Now now. Let’s be charitable.

 

[StMarkEofE]

Allah should not be called Father!

Of course He should be called Father, Isaiah 63:15-16 Says so!

 

[Rocky]

Where in the Gospels does it say that Jesus worshipped the Father? While it says He prayed to the Father, I do not believe you will find the term ‘worship’.

In Catholic belief to pray to someone is not to necessarily worship that person. Rather it is a way of communicating. And in medieval and earlier times people would speak to one another in making requests by using the word ‘pray’.

So when reading the bible and it says that Jesus went off to pray, it does not necessarily mean He went to worship, but rather to spend some time with His Father, because our God is one in a communion of relationship.

 

[DonProfondo]

Now now. Let’s be charitable.

That IS charitable.

 

[exoflare]

Where in the Gospels does it say that Jesus worshipped the Father? While it says He prayed to the Father, I do not believe you will find the term ‘worship’.

Good point. But then again, didn’t he have to observe all the same practices as the rest of the Jewish people? I don’t know how this would exlude sacrifices (a form of worship), for example…

Sorry if that doesn’t make sense. That one really caught me off guard.

 

[Rocky]

Well, the bible is silent on His participation in the practices of Jewish worship, so we really don’t know if He joined in them in an active way or in a passive way as a member of His family on earth or not at all. The bible’s only account of Jesus taking part in a worship ritual (Passover) is in the account of the Last Supper when He instituted how we are to worship Him!

 

[exoflare]

Well, the bible is silent on His participation in the practices of Jewish worship, so we really don’t know if He joined in them in an active way or in a passive way as a member of His family on earth or not at all. The bible’s only account of Jesus taking part in a worship ritual (Passover) is in the account of the Last Supper when He instituted how we are to worship Him!

Yeah, I had just always assumed he did participate in the worship practices though. Mainly because if he didn’t, wouldn’t people have become kind of suspicious? Also, nobody was ever able to give account of seeing him commit a “sin” until they turned him in for blasphemy when he finally claimed to be God.

 

[exoflare]

Sorry if I sound like I’m arguing, I’m just really interested in this aspect of Jesus’ life!

 

[Rocky]

Again,all we can know about Jesus is what is actually written in the bible and what the Church teaches. Since both are silent on His participation in Jewish worship ritual, we have to go on what is written.

As to others being suspicious of Jesus, He said in Matthew and Mark that “No prophet is without honor except in his native place, indeed in his own house. And he did not work many miracles there because of their lack of faith.” This account intimates that the townspeople knew Him too well to believe in Him. We could just as easily interpret that to mean that they had never been impressed by Him while He was living with among them, and we could go into meditations of why this was. Perhaps it was because He did not worship the way they expected Him to.

But then again, that is just conjecture. What we can only know for sure is that the term ‘worship’ is only used in the bible when others worship Jesus, and the bible only says that He goes off “to pray.”

 

[exoflare]

As to others being suspicious of Jesus, He said in Matthew and Mark that “No prophet is without honor except in his native place, indeed in his own house. And he did not work many miracles there because of their lack of faith.” This account intimates that the townspeople knew Him too well to believe in Him. We could just as easily interpret that to mean that they had never been impressed by Him while He was living with among them, and we could go into meditations of why this was. Perhaps it was because He did not worship the way they expected Him to.

That’s a good point as well. But you’re right, it does all come down to conjecture in the end.

 

[THEKING]

The father of our faith - Abraham didn’t call Allah father, he knew who is father was

.Jews and Christians consider God Father. Only Muslims don because the Muslim relationship to Allah is a Master/slave relationship, not the Judeo-Christian relationship of Father/sons. Maybe you are a follower of Sufism? this explains why you have more inclination to Judeo-Christianity rather than mainstream Islam i guess.

There is verses in the Bible trhat says that Allah will be like the father of the orphans. In this case you can say that Allah was like a father to Muhammad(saw) who was orphaned, and Adam who didn’t have parents either.

can you quote a single hadith where Muhammad said that Allah is his father even in a spiritual sense?

Using the woird Father is only symbolic and should not be taeken literally.

so why did Muhammad get it wrong?

How can Allah have a son if he has no wife? Muhammad asked this question in Quran but you Sufi, not even a prophet, gave the correct answer that Muhammad failed to grasp. Do you believe that an all-knowing God would ask the question above?

 

[THEKING]

It’s not that we think you worship Mary. We know you don’t. But the idols set up is enough for us to not accept it

. can Christians say the same about the Kaaba and about Muhammad kissing a black stone?

The pictures of what is said to be the image of Jesus and Mary every where is what we are in disagreement with.

 

[THEKING]

Islam beleives that there is only God the God. Everything other being is created by God the God and are lesser than Him. Not equal or to Him or realted to Him any way. His creations is below Him. ALL His creation including Isa ibn Maryam.

Isa aka Jesus is the word of Allah and Ruh of Allah according to Quran and hadith; not a word “from” Him, but “his” word. Are Allah’s word and spirit created or uncreated Sufi?

فحسب تفسير الرازى إن كلمة الله هى صفة قائمة بذات الله ، وإذا ما رجعنا إلى إنجيل يوحنا نجد أن " الكلمة كان فى البدء عند الله وكان الكلمة الله" ( يوحنا 1 : 1 )

in other words, Razi is saying that the word of God is not different than God.

Ahmad Abd Al-Muuti Hijazi in Al-Ahram magazine June 19, 2002 said:

Christianity is a monotheitic religion and the trinity does not mean plurarily of gods but refers to the different images of the same reality. In this sense, it is close to Muslims’ belief in the plurality of adjectives of the same divine nature.

المسيحية دين توحيد والتثليث فبها لا يعني الكثرة او التعدد وانما يشير الى الصور المختلفة للحقيقة الواحدة فهي بهدا المعنى شبيهة بفهم المسلمين لوحدة الدات الالهية وتعدد الصفات الداتية فالصفات هي عين الدات كما قال المعتزلة:الله دات له صفات ثلاثة: الوجود والعقل والحياة وهدا ما يؤمن به المسيحيون

الشقنقيري استاد الشريعة الاسلامية قال على آية النساء 171:
المسيحيون لا صعوبة عندهم في فهم هده الآية وانما الاعتراض على المسلمين لاضطرارهم الاعتراف بالوهية المسيح

 

[THEKING]

No, I’m in disagreement with the preservation and journey of the Bible of what it is today.

Muhammad believed in the Bible and it is the same Bible that predates Muhammad by thousands of years. Archeology is there to prove that God’s word cannot be corrupt, Just as God said thousands of years before Muhammad. To say that God’s word can be corrupt is an insult to His power and seriousness about His word.

 

[THEKING]

I’ve long meditated on that. Water, Ice and Steam are all the same. Different forms. In Islam God is ONE! Absolute ONE! No separate forms.

no separate forms? can you give a quranic verse saying that Allah has no separate forms? we all know God is One, but One what? we know the number of God in Islam, but asking about the nature of this oness is usually discouraged.

The Quran says Allah has a spirit. Is Allah’s spirit created or uncreated?

 

[THEKING]

This is the definition of a person: dictionary.reference.com/browse/person

person is Uqnum in Arabic.

Once you use the number 3 in anything it is no more one.

 

[THEKING]

You are incorrect. Even Christians use the word Allah to discribe the Creator: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

The word God should not be used for the Creator since it didn’t originate from Him, and it is a word that was attributed to many gods: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

while translating the Bible into Arabic, translators used what is available in Arabic. Christian Arabic speaking people do not consider Allah a proper name but just the substitute of the word God, neither do they consider Allah the same Allah spoken of by Muhammad, at least not in terms of His nature.