Allah willed the founding of Christianity

[Vile_Servant]

Christians believe that Jesus died and was resurrected from the dead. This is the cornerstone of the Christian faith, for St Paul teaches,

If Christ be not resurrected, then our faith is in vain (I Corinthians 15:14).

What is also clear from the Quran is that Allah willed the founding of Christianity.
How is this so?

The purpose of Allah’s teaching and the Quran was to convert disbelievers to the faith by Clear Signs. What clearer sign can Allah give to the disbelievers than to show them convincingly that Jesus died and was resurrected from the dead? And this is exactly what He did!

Quran 4.157.
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

To all the disbelievers who were present in Jerusalem and Golgotha that day, the exact appearance of Jesus crucified and died on the cross was shown to them by Allah. What was the logical result? The disbelievers all BELIEVED that Jesus died on the cross! What happened three days later? They saw Jesus, very much alive. What was the logical conclusion? Jesus RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD! Thus Allah publicly manifested the Clearest of Signs to all disbelievers, turning them into strong and unwavering BELIEVERS of Jesus Christ.

So, Allah WILLED that Christianity be born and to be spread over the whole world!

 

[ahollars]

You know you would never go to a Muslim country with that interpretation. You would be executed for heresy.

 

[Vile_Servant]

You know you would never go to a Muslim country with that interpretation. You would be executed for heresy.

Muslims do not believe that everything happens by Allah’s will?

Allah is the all knowing, all wise, all powerful and the best of planners.

 

[hamba2han]

Christians believe that Jesus died and was resurrected from the dead. This is the cornerstone of the Christian faith, for St Paul teaches,

If Christ be not resurrected, then our faith is in vain (I Corinthians 15:14).

What is also clear from the Quran is that Allah willed the founding of Christianity.
How is this so?

The purpose of Allah’s teaching and the Quran was to convert disbelievers to the faith by Clear Signs. What clearer sign can Allah give to the disbelievers than to show them convincingly that Jesus died and was resurrected from the dead? And this is exactly what He did!

Quran 4.157.
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

To all the disbelievers who were present in Jerusalem and Golgotha that day, the exact appearance of Jesus crucified and died on the cross was shown to them by Allah. What was the logical result? The disbelievers all BELIEVED that Jesus died on the cross! What happened three days later? They saw Jesus, very much alive. What was the logical conclusion? Jesus RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD! Thus Allah publicly manifested the Clearest of Signs to all disbelievers, turning them into strong and unwavering BELIEVERS of Jesus Christ.

So, Allah WILLED that Christianity be born and to be spread over the whole world!

Your reading of this event is way off course.

The verse simply states that it was made to appear to the Jews that they had killed Jesus (pbuh), it says NOTHING about the alleged “resurrection”.

And besides, if they did indeed believe in the resurrection, then how come they continued to persecute the followers of Jesus (pbuh) and proceeded to kill the disciples?

 

[Lapell]

Your reading of this event is way off course.

The verse simply states that it was made to appear to the Jews that they had killed Jesus (pbuh), it says NOTHING about the alleged “resurrection”.

And besides, if they did indeed believe in the resurrection, then how come they continued to persecute the followers of Jesus (pbuh) and proceeded to kill the disciples?

They believe a resurrection would happen at the end of time, and Jesus didn’t show Himself to most Jews (those who were not Jesus’ disciples, I mean)after His resurrection. Saul (Paul) of Tarse was an exception. Why did Jesus choose not to appear to those who did not believe in Him? In the parable of the rich man and the poor Lazarus there might be a good clue: Abraham told the rich man that if they would not obey Moses and the Prophets, somebody could rise up from death, they would still not be convinced. Maybe they would have asked Him “Why do you come back here before the end of time??”

 

[planten]

Christians believe that Jesus died and was resurrected from the dead. This is the cornerstone of the Christian faith, for St Paul teaches,

If Christ be not resurrected, then our faith is in vain (I Corinthians 15:14).

What is also clear from the Quran is that Allah willed the founding of Christianity.
How is this so?

The purpose of Allah’s teaching and the Quran was to convert disbelievers to the faith by Clear Signs. What clearer sign can Allah give to the disbelievers than to show them convincingly that Jesus died and was resurrected from the dead? And this is exactly what He did!

Quran 4.157.
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

To all the disbelievers who were present in Jerusalem and Golgotha that day, the exact appearance of Jesus crucified and died on the cross was shown to them by Allah. What was the logical result? The disbelievers all BELIEVED that Jesus died on the cross! What happened three days later? They saw Jesus, very much alive. What was the logical conclusion? Jesus RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD! Thus Allah publicly manifested the Clearest of Signs to all disbelievers, turning them into strong and unwavering BELIEVERS of Jesus Christ.

So, Allah WILLED that Christianity be born and to be spread over the whole world!

Vile Servant, you have misui=interpretted the verse of Quran. And hamba has also raised a few genuine questions. Please see your mistake or misunderstnding, as follows:

To all the disbelievers who were present in Jerusalem and Golgotha that day, the exact appearance of Jesus crucified and died on the cross was shown to them by Allah. What was the logical result? The disbelievers all BELIEVED that Jesus died on the cross

To all the disbelievers who were present in Jerusalem and Golgotha that day, the exact appearance of Jesus crucified and died on the cross was shown to them by Allah **but Jesus was never dead. **Allah says that Jesus was never dead. They could not kill him on the cross. The Crucifixion means death on the cross, not just putting up on the cross.

Jesus was put on the cross. Allah says that he did not die on the cross. So jesus was not Crucified.

What was the logical result? The disbelievers all BELIEVED that Jesus died on the cross

There is no need of any logical result. When Jesus had not really died on the cross and he only appeared to be dead, there is no need of any resurrection.

Apart fom the above, I believe that Allah willed that name of Jesus may never be forgotten. Allah willed and said that Jesus will remain a sign for the people. That means he will be well remembered in the world. Perhaps similar words were said about his mother Mary too. But I am sure about Jesus that he is Ayatullah i.e. a sign of Allah for the people to remember (See 19:21) and a Mercy from Allah.

I can prove the words of the above para very easily that Jesus is evidently a sign for the people. That is, not only by a very big group of his followers (More than 2 Billion christians in the world) but also by another means. So the Topic is correct.

 

[Lapell]

Vile Servant, you have misui=interpretted the verse of Quran. And hamba has also raised a few genuine questions. Please see your mistake or misunderstnding, as follows:

To all the disbelievers who were present in Jerusalem and Golgotha that day, the exact appearance of Jesus crucified and died on the cross was shown to them by Allah **but Jesus was never dead. **Allah says that Jesus was never dead. They could not kill him on the cross. The Crucifixion means death on the cross, not just putting up on the cross.

Jesus was put on the cross. Allah says that he did not die on the cross. So jesus was not Crucified.

There is no need of any logical result. When Jesus had not really died on the cross and he only appeared to be dead, there is no need of any resurrection.

Apart fom the above, I believe that Allah willed that name of Jesus may never be forgotten. Allah willed and said that Jesus will remain a sign for the people. That means he will be well remembered in the world. Perhaps similar words were said about his mother Mary too. But I am sure about Jesus that he is Ayatullah i.e. a sign of Allah for the people to remember (See 19:21) and a Mercy from Allah.

I can prove the words of the above para very easily that Jesus is evidently a sign for the people. That is, not only by a very big group of his followers (More than 2 Billion christians in the world) but also by another means. So the Topic is correct.

Ahem! so, in your view, there is no resurrection and no afterlife? So, after having tried all your life to life a virtuous life, i.e. according to Allah’s Commandments, you just die and remain dead forever?

 

[Lapell]

As for Muhammad stating that Jesus did not die on the cross, he wasn’t present on the Mt. Calvary, unlike the Apostle (and Evangelist) John. He couldn’t, since he was born in the last part of the 6th century after Jesus Christ. Now know that to be a saint does not mean it’s impossible for you to err since you’re only a human. Was Muhammad not a human? Even if he erred about Jesus not dead on the cross, he could still be a saint, you knew that?

 

[Lapell]

And besides, if they did indeed believe in the resurrection, then how come they continued to persecute the followers of Jesus (pbuh) and proceeded to kill the disciples?

The Pharisees (Parushim) did believe there would be a resurrection, but as for the Sadducees, they didn’t, according to the Gospel. The priests were Sadducees (descendants of Zadek the priest).

 

[cthulhubryan]

to all the disbelievers who were present in jerusalem and golgotha that day, the exact appearance of jesus crucified and died on the cross was shown to them by allah **but jesus was never dead. **allah says that jesus was never dead. They could not kill him on the cross. The crucifixion means death on the cross, not just putting up on the cross.

Jesus was put on the cross. allah says that he did not die on the cross. So jesus was not crucified.

هذا هو حفنة من حماقة والحصان.

 

[planten]

Ahem! so, in your view, there is no resurrection and no afterlife? So, after having tried all your life to life a virtuous life, i.e. according to Allah’s Commandments, you just die and remain dead forever?

Lapell, please see my post below. The resurrection that I was talking about was the resurrection of Jesus after the incident of the cross. See below:

**There is no need of any logical result. When **Jesus ****had not really died on the cross and he only appeared to be dead, there is no need of any resurrection.

 

[planten]

As for Muhammad stating that Jesus did not die on the cross, he wasn’t present on the Mt. Calvary, unlike the Apostle (and Evangelist) John. He couldn’t, since he was born in the last part of the 6th century after Jesus Christ. Now know that to be a saint does not mean it’s impossible for you to err since you’re only a human. Was Muhammad not a human? Even if he erred about Jesus not dead on the cross, he could still be a saint, you knew that?

Lapell, No, No, there is no need for you to make Muhammad into a saint. It is God who makes some one a saint or a prophet (Messenger). WE are nobody. Muhammad was a human. So was Jesus and all the rest.

There was no need for Muhammad to be present at the site of crucifixion. Jesus talked about Abraham and Moses. Was he there with Moses?

Muhammad did not err about Jesus. Muhammad nevr said anything from himself. He said only those things which he was told by God. God had told Moses a.s. about a prophet to come later. God said I will put my words in his mouth. (Deut 18:18). We believe that was Muhammad. But you people have your own beliefs against what Muslims believe.

 

[Vile_Servant]

So the Topic is correct.

I’m glad you agree with the topic.

Now…to convince hamba and the other Muslims.

 

[jlhargus]

Vile Servant, you have misui=interpretted the verse of Quran. And hamba has also raised a few genuine questions. Please see your mistake or misunderstnding, as follows:

To all the disbelievers who were present in Jerusalem and Golgotha that day, the exact appearance of Jesus crucified and died on the cross was shown to them by Allah **but Jesus was never dead. **Allah says that Jesus was never dead. They could not kill him on the cross. The Crucifixion means death on the cross, not just putting up on the cross.

Jesus was put on the cross. Allah says that he did not die on the cross. So jesus was not Crucified.

There is no need of any logical result. When Jesus had not really died on the cross and he only appeared to be dead, there is no need of any resurrection.

Apart fom the above, I believe that Allah willed that name of Jesus may never be forgotten. Allah willed and said that Jesus will remain a sign for the people. That means he will be well remembered in the world. Perhaps similar words were said about his mother Mary too. But I am sure about Jesus that he is Ayatullah i.e. a sign of Allah for the people to remember (See 19:21) and a Mercy from Allah.

I can prove the words of the above para very easily that Jesus is evidently a sign for the people. That is, not only by a very big group of his followers (More than 2 Billion christians in the world) but also by another means. So the Topic is correct.

JL: So what the quran is really saying, Allah deceived people into belief, by a false death and resurrection. How then can you trust anything Allah says in the quran? If Allah deceives then nothing can be for sure?

 

[schaick]

The Quran is a jumble of statements with stories being mixed together from on chapter to the next.

2.56 Then We raised you up after your death: Ye had the chance to be grateful.

3:54 And plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.

3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

Beginning with verse
3:153 we see the Jews doing all kinds of things:
worshipped the calf-the Jews, broke the covenant

4.155 In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of Allah; that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, “Our hearts are the wrappings”;- Nay, Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-

4:156 That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

4:157 That they said, “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

4:158 Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

4.171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not “three” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs

10.094 If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.

19.33 “So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life”!

19.34 Such Jesus the son of Mary: a statement of truth, about which they dispute.

Because of the things said about Mary by the Jews this had to be added- Christians in no way believe that GOD had sexual intercourse with Mary:

19.35 It is not befitting to Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, “Be”, and it is.

Foreshadowing of Jesus’ sacrifice:
37.106 For this was obviously a trial-
37.107 And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
37.108 And We left for him among generations in later times:

 

[planten]

I’m glad you agree with the topic.

Now…to convince hamba and the other Muslims.

V S, Allah willed the founding of Christianity. There is no doubt about that. I hope nobody needs to be convinced. The Messiah for the Jews was needed. Jesus came at the correct time and place from God. He came from God so God will not let his work go in vain. He did his work well.

I only agreed with the topic of the thread. Everything happens by the Will of Allah. The Catholics have been rewarded for their efforts. So enjoy yourself. But do not disturb humbah.

 

[Lapell]

Lapell, No, No, there is no need for you to make Muhammad into a saint. It is God who makes some one a saint or a prophet (Messenger). WE are nobody. Muhammad was a human. So was Jesus and all the rest.

There was no need for Muhammad to be present at the site of crucifixion. Jesus talked about Abraham and Moses. Was he there with Moses?

Muhammad did not err about Jesus. Muhammad nevr said anything from himself. He said only those things which he was told by God. God had told Moses a.s. about a prophet to come later. God said I will put my words in his mouth. (Deut 18:18). We believe that was Muhammad. But you people have your own beliefs against what Muslims believe.

I know that the Muslims would not even fathom the possibility that Muhammad may have taken a false angel for an angel of God. For how could an angel of God contradict a message from an angel of God? (In the 4 Gospels, it is one or two angels (“two men in white”, according to Luke) who announced Jesus’ resurrection to Mary Magdalen and the women with her.) Now if Muhammad were totally faithful to God, which seems to be what the Muslims claim him to be, would it not mean that to them he is a saint?

 

[Lapell]

هذا هو حفنة من حماقة والحصان.

Would you please translate this to the rest of us. My Arabic is far from fluent, and I don’t have the Arabic alphabet in front of me!

 

[cthulhubryan]

Would you please translate this to the rest of us. My Arabic is far from fluent, and I don’t have the Arabic alphabet in front of me!

This was in response to Planten’s post that said that because Allah said Jesus never died Jesus was not crucified and therefore never died and therefore could not have been resurrected.

هذا هو حفنة من حماقة والحصان.

Means (loosely) This is a lot of Horse droppings.

 

[planten]

Would you please translate this to the rest of us. My Arabic is far from fluent, and I don’t have the Arabic alphabet in front of me!

Lapell, I had understood the message from the horse trader. I had a good laugh too. WE are lucky that we have such nice persons eloquent in the use of Arabic language.