Allah

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Thanks, Hasantas.

In meantime, I found sources about ancient meaning of Allah as well as how we are the same in defining God and how we are different. I will come back when I have the time. Working additional 10 hr cases this week.
 
Just the historical facts.

Actually, Allah = AI-Ilah. Arabic for “the god.” pre-Islamic name, corresponding to the Babylonian Bel. Other names were “The Moon-god”, “crescent moon”.

Allah, which was the greatest of 365 other pagan gods at the time of Muhammed. Allah comes from the god Sin, “The Controller of the Night,” and had the crescent moon as his emblem, and the lunar-based calendar, which became the primary religious symbols of Islam, and was worshiped in Arabia as AI-Ilah. See Nabonidus and the Babylonian ruler who made the Babylonian pagan gods acceptable to the Arabians who esteemed the “moon god” and made Mecca the center of all pagan religions of Arabia.

AI-Ilah, the Moon God, was the “Lord of the Ka’aba” (“cube”) which was the center of pagan worship, ruling over 360 idols. Lucrative trade routes resulted.
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The Ka'aba black cube in Mecca is of course the center of Islamic worship today. Islam is a previously heathen religion modified into a monotheistic form by discarding all the other pagan gods except for Al-Ilah. Islamic pagan rites are still practiced in Mecca today (i.e., pray to direction of their gods, circling the Ka’aba 7 times, kissing it, and running to the Wadi Mina to throw stones, and so on).  There is overwhelming evidence that Muhammad constructed his religion and the Quran from pre-existing material in Arabian culture. The Quraysh tribe (Muhammad's tribe ) was previously devoted to Allah, the moon god. Muhammad's father was Abd-Allah. His Uncle, Obied-Allah. His mother, Aminah, was known to have been involved in the occult. Muhammad’s tribe wanted Mecca due to the location of lucative trade routes.
Actually, Allah = AI-Ilah. Arabic for “the god.” pre-Islamic name, corresponding to the Babylonian Bel. Other names were “The Moon-god”, “crescent moon”.

Islam incorporates beliefs in jinn’s ( which are genies, fairies); in spells, magic stones, fetishes; and animistic beliefs (spirits living in inanimate objects). See: Suras 55; 72; 113, 114. Such beliefs are contrary to Bible.

The Quran is an amalgam of Hinduism, Buddhism, Mythraism, Greek mystery religions, as well as elements from Judaism and Christianity.

The book is not free of error, contains contradictions, and has the order confused. Disagrees with itself (6 days and 8 days – Sura 7:51, 10:3, Sura 41 claims 8 days) and the bible on the creation in Genesis. Has over 100 aberrations especially concerning Abraham. Abaham was never in Mecca, did not build the Ka’aba, and did not offer Ismael as a sacrifice per Quran.

Muslims believe that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter that Christ sent indwell the church was the “Messenger” Muhammed. be clear, Muhammad is mentioned, prohesized as a messenger of God in any part of the old or new testament.

Allah is not the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, nothing could be further from the truth.
 
So praised Be Allah, Praised Be God and lets thank Him for the Tests and keep at our job of Unity and if that requires us all to agree to disagree, that is good if we learn to war no more over our One and Only God 👍 😉 😊

Regards Tony
Saying that they are all the same God does not make it so. Muslims deny Jesus as God. Christians affirm Jesus as God. Do we have the same God? You have to assert that both Muslims and Christians are ignorant as to who God is, yet somehow worship that God despite completely attributing false things to him.

Allah is not the same God as the Christian God. We are not unified, and agreeing to disagree is agreeing that we disagree, not accepting the legitimacy of the other’s position.
 
Saying that they are all the same God does not make it so. Muslims deny Jesus as God. Christians affirm Jesus as God. Do we have the same God? You have to assert that both Muslims and Christians are ignorant as to who God is, yet somehow worship that God despite completely attributing false things to him.

Allah is not the same God as the Christian God. We are not unified, and agreeing to disagree is agreeing that we disagree, not accepting the legitimacy of the other’s position.
👍
 
Christians have the Holy Trinity… Muslims have tawheed. How can Christians have the same God as muslims when islam considers the Holy Trinity to be blasphemous?
 
Just the historical facts.

Actually, Allah = AI-Ilah. Arabic for “the god.” pre-Islamic name, corresponding to the Babylonian Bel. Other names were “The Moon-god”, “crescent moon”.

Allah, which was the greatest of 365 other pagan gods at the time of Muhammed. Allah comes from the god Sin, “The Controller of the Night,” and had the crescent moon as his emblem, and the lunar-based calendar, which became the primary religious symbols of Islam, and was worshiped in Arabia as AI-Ilah. See Nabonidus and the Babylonian ruler who made the Babylonian pagan gods acceptable to the Arabians who esteemed the “moon god” and made Mecca the center of all pagan religions of Arabia.

AI-Ilah, the Moon God, was the “Lord of the Ka’aba” (“cube”) which was the center of pagan worship, ruling over 360 idols. Lucrative trade routes resulted.
Code:
The Ka'aba black cube in Mecca is of course the center of Islamic worship today. Islam is a previously heathen religion modified into a monotheistic form by discarding all the other pagan gods except for Al-Ilah. Islamic pagan rites are still practiced in Mecca today (i.e., pray to direction of their gods, circling the Ka’aba 7 times, kissing it, and running to the Wadi Mina to throw stones, and so on).  There is overwhelming evidence that Muhammad constructed his religion and the Quran from pre-existing material in Arabian culture. The Quraysh tribe (Muhammad's tribe ) was previously devoted to Allah, the moon god. Muhammad's father was Abd-Allah. His Uncle, Obied-Allah. His mother, Aminah, was known to have been involved in the occult. Muhammad’s tribe wanted Mecca due to the location of lucative trade routes.
Actually, Allah = AI-Ilah. Arabic for “the god.” pre-Islamic name, corresponding to the Babylonian Bel. Other names were “The Moon-god”, “crescent moon”.

Islam incorporates beliefs in jinn’s ( which are genies, fairies); in spells, magic stones, fetishes; and animistic beliefs (spirits living in inanimate objects). See: Suras 55; 72; 113, 114. Such beliefs are contrary to Bible.

The Quran is an amalgam of Hinduism, Buddhism, Mythraism, Greek mystery religions, as well as elements from Judaism and Christianity.

The book is not free of error, contains contradictions, and has the order confused. Disagrees with itself (6 days and 8 days – Sura 7:51, 10:3, Sura 41 claims 8 days) and the bible on the creation in Genesis. Has over 100 aberrations especially concerning Abraham. Abaham was never in Mecca, did not build the Ka’aba, and did not offer Ismael as a sacrifice per Quran.

Muslims believe that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter that Christ sent indwell the church was the “Messenger” Muhammed. be clear, Muhammad is mentioned, prohesized as a messenger of God in any part of the old or new testament.

Allah is not the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, nothing could be further from the truth.
Just the absurdity!
 
Saying that they are all the same God does not make it so. Muslims deny Jesus as God. Christians affirm Jesus as God. Do we have the same God? You have to assert that both Muslims and Christians are ignorant as to who God is, yet somehow worship that God despite completely attributing false things to him.

Allah is not the same God as the Christian God. We are not unified, and agreeing to disagree is agreeing that we disagree, not accepting the legitimacy of the other’s position.
Sorry Ignatian, yes I must tell you you do have the Same God. Yes we are all ignorant as to who God is, one day we will wake up no more and meet that Same God in our Judgement.

All that we have done we will have to face, no one escapes this.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Christians have the Holy Trinity… Muslims have tawheed. How can Christians have the same God as muslims when islam considers the Holy Trinity to be blasphemous?
I would consider God is Greater than mans puny little arguments over who has the best God, but who am I to suggest that! Nobody 😉

Regards Tony
 
Christians have the Holy Trinity… Muslims have tawheed. How can Christians have the same God as muslims when islam considers the Holy Trinity to be blasphemous?
A different conception of the same thing—even a wrong one—doesn’t make it a different thing. If we both saw a guy on the street and I said later he was 6’2", black haired, and wearing a blue suit and you said he was 5’"11, brown haired, in a black suit, we would be talking about the same person even if one of us was wrong about his attributes.

I do believe the Muslims have an incorrect understanding of God (among many other things; that’s why I’m not a Muslim), but I certainly don’t think they are worshipping something different.
 
A different conception of the same thing—even a wrong one—doesn’t make it a different thing. If we both saw a guy on the street and I said later he was 6’2", black haired, and wearing a blue suit and you said he was 5’"11, brown haired, in a black suit, we would be talking about the same person even if one of us was wrong about his attributes.

I do believe the Muslims have an incorrect understanding of God (among many other things; that’s why I’m not a Muslim), but I certainly don’t think they are worshipping something different.
In my opinion, we (our CCC) decided on a stance vis-a-vis Muslims and works our argument to fit our decision.

As I can see it, either argument for or against the idea that Christians and Muslims worship the same God can be both equally strong and valid. So it is a matter of which stance one decides and takes.

From a Christian’s perspective, there are many aspects of Islamic God that can be antithesis of the Christian God. On the other hand, both religions do give many similar attributes to this God.
 
In my opinion, we (our CCC) decided on a stance vis-a-vis Muslims and works our argument to fit our decision.

As I can see it, either argument for or against the idea that Christians and Muslims worship the same God can be both equally strong and valid. So it is a matter of which stance one decides and takes.

From a Christian’s perspective, there are many aspects of Islamic God that can be antithesis of the Christian God. On the other hand, both religions do give many similar attributes to this God.
In Christianity, there are three ways to use the term “God” (Allah, in Arabic):
  1. Each person of the Godhead - Father, Son, or Holy Spirit - individually
  2. The totality of the Godhead (the Most Holy Trinity)
  3. Attributes of either (Energies, as Eastern Christians call it)
The other issue of confusion is the Arabic word Allah. The translation is simply ‘God’, however for discussion between Christians and Muslims, the above 3 apply.

Muslims do not recognize 1) and reject 2) while holding a unitarian view.
 
From a Christian’s perspective, there are many aspects of Islamic God that can be antithesis of the Christian God. On the other hand, both religions do give many similar attributes to this God.
Can you please share these attributes which are the antithesis of one another Reuben?

God bless you 🙂

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Sorry Ignatian, yes I must tell you you do have the Same God. Yes we are all ignorant as to who God is, one day we will wake up no more and meet that Same God in our Judgement.

All that we have done we will have to face, no one escapes this.

God Bless and Regards Tony
So you are arguing then that each of us in turn knows nothing about God, this is despite he fact that in your own view God has at least given 9 revelations in history, in which all successors to those revelations have failed to distinguish anything as to who God is.

When I say Jesus is God, you can only tell me that in my ignorance I am worshipping the one true God. Yet you are making a judgement as to who God is in doing that and I’m left wondering how you can say that after saying we know nothing about God’s identity?

Is it not possible that in your world view, in the world ie of Islam, that I am the worst of all creatures? One who associates partners with Allah? That makes more sense to me than vainly insisting despite all reason to the contrary, we have the same God.

I’ll say this the God of Muhammed is a false God. Now in me saying this am I still worshipping the true God despite having rejected him manifest through Muhammed? Only if my will means nothing.
 
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Is there an Christian here that can share with us any teachings or guidance on the concept known as Deus a Se please?

This will assist many…

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Can you please share these attributes which are the antithesis of one another Reuben?

God bless you 🙂

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the attribution ‘Al-Mumit’ (Causer of Death) would not be acceptable to the Christian.
 
Why not?

Is there anyone else who designates the death of human beings?

.
For Apostolic Christians - death and sin are intertwined. Neither are caused by God. God, the Second Person of the Trinity, becoming human was to transform this death into a possibility of Eternal Life.
 
It has nothing to do with the name really, but the being. But Muslims do acknowledge the one God, even if they profess many other errors. First, I think there should be noted the difference between worshiping God in Spirit and in truth, offering Him “true worship,” having supernatural faith, obeying Him, etc., and acknowledging God or worshiping God according to religion (which isn’t a theological virtue; it falls under justice).

St. Thomas defines this virtue in the Summa as “to show reverence to one God under one aspect, namely, as the first principle of the creation and government of things.” newadvent.org/summa/3081.htm

Can Muslims do this? They certainly worship “God” as First Principle and Supreme Governor of all things, but is it the same God we know? Can one acknowledge the one God without acknowledging the Trinity?

First, faith is required to acknowledge the Trinity. The Trinity cannot be reasoned out, as St. Thomas explains:
St. Thomas:
I answer that, It is impossible to attain to the knowledge of the Trinity by natural reason. For, as above explained (12, 4, 12), man cannot obtain the knowledge of God by natural reason except from creatures. Now creatures lead us to the knowledge of God, as effects do to their cause. Accordingly, by natural reason we can know of God that only which of necessity belongs to Him as the principle of things, and we have cited this fundamental principle in treating of God as above (Question 12, Article 12). Now, the creative power of God is common to the whole Trinity; and hence it belongs to the unity of the essence, and not to the distinction of the persons. Therefore, by natural reason we can know what belongs to the unity of the essence, but not what belongs to the distinction of the persons.
newadvent.org/summa/1032.htm

Therefore, we can know of God, as the Principle of all things, apart from faith, but we can only know of the Trinity with faith since it is a revealed dogma. The First Vatican Council also defined that God can be known from natural reason alone (Dei Filius, Canon 2.1) and St. Paul says, on account of this, those who do not acknowledge God (but worship idols, are atheists, etc.) are without excuse (Rom. 1:20).

Therefore, one can acknowledge the one God and Creator of all things without having faith and acknowledging the Trinity. But do Muslims do this?

How can we say whether or not we are talking about the same thing? It is the essence of the thing that determines what it is. If we acknowledge the same essence, we acknowledge the same thing. What we can say about the essence of God is that it is the same as His existence. This is summed up as “God is” or, in His own words, “I AM” or “I AM who AM.” (Exo. 3:14).

This concept is formally referred to as the “aesity” of God. Essentially, aesity means self-existence. Aesity explains the metaphysical nature of God as a purely self-existent being that exists in complete actuality. God is not a being that is created by another god; neither does God create Himself into existence. Rather, God has always existed as an unchanging, completely actualized being. God has his Being of himself and to himself such that he is absolute being and the very definition of existence (see Acts 17:22-28). Since God’s existence is the same as his essence, it follows that God is existence. (Note: this is not to assert pantheism. All other beings participate in his existence on a contingency and thus do not possess the essence of God. Therefore, no other being can be said to be a god or share a part in the godhead since they exist solely on a contingency.) This concept is at the root of the definition of all of God’s other perfections because if God is absolute being he must logically contain in Himself all perfections of being.

Since God’s essence is existence, if one acknowledges His essence, one can only acknowledge He who exists–it is impossible to acknowledge a completely actualized being that is not the one and only God. Similarly, there cannot exist two of such beings, because then neither would contain in Himself all perfections of being.

The CE article on Essence and Existence explains this:
Catholic Encyclopedia:
-If essence and existence were but one thing, we should be unable to conceive the one without conceiving the other. But we are as a fact able to conceive of essence by itself.
-If there be no real distinction between the two, then the essence is identical with the existence. But in God alone are these identical.
newadvent.org/cathen/05543b.htm

Since Muslims do conceive of God as being completely self-actualized, of being non-contingent, as having aesity (see this Muslim article, al-islam.org/GodAttributes/need.htm ), then they therefore can only be said to acknowledge the one God who exists and it is to Him that they honor and worship as First Principle and Creator according to the virtue of religion.

I would say therefore that we know God; they know of God. This is the difference between affective and speculative knowledge. St. Thomas makes this distinction in his commentary on John to reconcile Biblical passages where Jesus says one must know Him to know the Father with those where people without faith are said to know or worship God (such as those passages cited above from Acts and Romans). We worship God in Spirit and in Truth and serve Him in supernatural faith and charity, they acknowledge and worship only in a natural way.

This of course does not mean what they claim as His revelation actually is or that their religion dates back farther than it actually does, or that they are justified in everything they do, etc. Whether people do good or horrible things in His name does not change or determine who God is.

See also this article by a well-known Catholic philosophy professor:
edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2015/12/christians-muslims-and-reference-of-god.html
 
That is a Bible quote yes. However, taken out of the full Patristic context. It should be read with this in mind, as well as the teachings of our Fathers:

Wisdom (1:12-15)

Do not invite death by the error of your life,
nor bring on destruction by the works of your hands;
because God did not make death,
and he does not delight in the death of the living.
For he created all things that they might exist,
and the generative forces of the world are wholesome,
and there is no destructive poison in them;
and the dominion of Hades is not on earth.
For righteousness is immortal.

“Origen, quite early on, gave this explanation: ‘Evil, in the absolute sense of the word, was not created by God …]. If we speak of evil in a loose sense, meaning physical and natural evils, then we can say that God created it in order to convert men by their suffering. What is strange about this teaching? We refer to the punishments meted out by parents and teachers, and even the prescriptions and operations carried out by doctors and surgeons, as evils and sufferings, without blaming or condemning them. And that is how we should read the verse: I form light and create darkness, I make weal and woe (Is 45:7)’ (Contra Celsum, 6, 55-56).” The Navarre Bible
 
Sorry Ignatian, yes I must tell you you do have the Same God. Yes we are all ignorant as to who God is, one day we will wake up no more and meet that Same God in our Judgement.

All that we have done we will have to face, no one escapes this.

God Bless and Regards Tony
You bring up a valid point: no one truly knows God. But as Christians, we rely on the Word He left for us to give us a path to follow Him. If you don’t trust His Word, how can you trust the Author of that Word? If you know and believe in His Word yet choose to ignore the Way, what good was living your life?:rolleyes:
 
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