Allah's oaths

[inJESUS]

Peace to all. My question is actually simple. Why does Allah swear by created things to prove his words? for example, why would Allah swear by the horses and the sound of their hooves to prove his words? isn’t it like if a man went to a shepherd and accused him of stealing, and the shepherd said : i swear by my donkey and the hooves of my horse and the corns of my ram, that the accuser will not take his oath seriously? remember that you are talking to people whose scriptures say God swears by Himself because no one is greater, so in this light, please explain why this same God would swear later by creatures, among them horses and their hooves, without jeopardizing his initial words that he swears only by Himself because no one is greater ? thank you in advance.

 

[Eucharisted]

There’s no context you give, so I’m going to bat pretty poorly at this (hey, I’m no Babe Ruth).

I believe what Muslims mean by Allah swearing is that there is proof of his word in creation - similar to how we Christians say there is proof of God’s existence in the beauty of the universe, which is like a mirror of God’s glory.

However, if Allah is swearing oaths by anything other than his own name, than that would be blasphemy - pure and simple. Because there is nothing greater than God, and since a man always makes oath by a higher power, God would make an oath by His own Name, since His Name is the Name, the Supreme Name.

I think even God swears by His Name in the Old Testament, but I could be wrong. Nonetheless, Muslims believe the Bible is corrupted, or we interpret it wrong, or something like that, so biblical proof won’t help - even though they themselves use it to prove the Qu’ran (yeah, they only uses verses which they regard as not corrupted, which are basically the verses that line up with the surahs of the Qu’ran…which pretty much makes more than half of the Bible corrupted. So why trust it, really?).

 

[inJESUS]

yes in the OT and NT God swears by Himself, you can find examples in Genesis and Samuel and Isaiah and Hebrews but if Muslims claim the scriptures are corrupt, will they claim that God “swears by Himself since no one is greater” is actually corrupt and false which means there is greater than God? i doubt, besides, why on earth would anyone corrupt such a thing? i hope no Muslim will even think of this theory since it is beyond absurdity.

One thing i know is that some Muslims say Allah swears by creatures to elevate their status or give them importance as his own creatures, which first doesn’t square with what the Bible says, since God since Genesis says about creations “and it was good” yet does not swear by them but by Himself, and second it doesn’t make sense since what glory is Allah giving to the hooves of horses for example?

I hope there is a rational and satisfactory answer that would cover these issues.

 

[Eucharisted]

I found the verses

“and said, ‘By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son,’” Genesis 22:16

“I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow…” Isaiah 45:23

“The LORD has sworn by His right hand and by His strong arm, ‘I will never again give your grain as food for your enemies; Nor will foreigners drink your new wine for which you have labored.’” Isaiah 62:8

“I swear by Myself, says the LORD.” Jeremiah 22:5

“But hear the word of the LORD, all Jews living in Egypt: ‘I swear by my great name,’ says the LORD, ‘that no one from Judah living anywhere in Egypt will ever again invoke my name or swear, “As surely as the Sovereign LORD lives.”’” Jeremiah 44:26

“For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself.” Hebrews 6:13

“For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute.” Hebrews 6:16

“By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.” Isaiah 45:23

“Whoever invokes a blessing in the land will do so by the God of truth; he who takes an oath in the land will swear by the God of truth. For the past troubles will be forgotten and hidden from my eyes.” Isaiah 65:16

And in the Qu’ran, I found this:

Verily, by thy life (O Prophet), in their wild intoxication, they wander in distraction, to and fro. S. 15:72 Y. Ali

I swear by the Quran full of wisdom S. 36:2

I swear by those who draw themselves out in ranks S. 37:1

Suad, I swear by the Quran, full of admonition. S. 38:1

I swear by the Book that makes things clear: S. 43:2

I swear by the Book that makes manifest (the truth). S. 44:2

Qaf. I swear by the glorious Quran (that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah) S. 50:1

I swear by the wind that scatters far and wide, S. 51:1

I swear by the heaven full of ways. S. 51:7

I swear by the Mountain, S. 52:1

I swear by the star when it goes down. S. 53:1

But nay! I swear by the falling of stars; S. 56:75

Noon. I swear by the pen and what the angels write, S. 68:1

But nay! I swear by that which you see, S. 69:38

Nay; I swear by the moon, S. 74:32

Nay! I swear by the day of resurrection. Nay, I swear by the self accusing soul, that the Day of Judgment is a certainty. S. 75:1-2

I swear by the emissary winds, sent one after another (for men’s benefit), S. 77:1

Then I swear by the angels who bring down the revelation, S. 77:5

I swear by the angels who violently pull out the souls of the wicked, S. 79:1

But nay! I swear by the stars, S. 81:15

But nay! I swear by the sunset redness, S. 84:16

I swear by the mansions of the stars, S. 85:1

I swear by the heaven and the comer by night; S. 86:1

I swear by the rain-giving heavens, S. 86:11

I swear by the daybreak, S. 89:1

Nay! I swear by this city. S. 90:1

I swear by the sun and its brilliance, S. 91:1

I swear by the night when it draws a veil, S. 92:1

I swear by the fig and the olive, and mount Sinai, And this city made secure, S. 95:1-3

I swear by the runners breathing pantingly, S. 100:1

I swear by the time, S. 103:1

Muslims may want to also raise the issue of Bible corruption, that these biblical references are corrupted. Apart from the fact that Muslims have no conclusive and convincing evidence to support such a position, it is apparent that those Muslims who would even posit this theory haven’t pondered this matter seriously. If the Muslims are correct then this means that copyists and scribes corrupted the text so as to give God even greater glory, exalting him even higher than the Quran exalts Allah!

There is a further problem with Allah swearing by things other than himself. Swearing by something that is less than myself, I am actually weakening the value of my statement. An oath is supposed to increase the weight or seriousness of what I say, but if I swear by something less than myself, I am decreasing the weight of my claim. In case people do not want to see these Quranic oaths as deification, or shirk, they still have a problem since the value of the oath is connected with the value of the entity that is appealed to. If one does not want to agree that an oath by the fig (S. 95:1) elevates the fig to a position of deity (shirk), then one has the opposite effect that the value of the oath is decreased to the value of the fig. Does that then mean Allah is not serious? Is he even joking? Perhaps Allah never intended to keep his oaths when swearing by all these other things? After all, his statements and promises are accompanied by oaths to trivial things, not to himself.

(Source)

I found this answer on Yahoo Answers (same question):

natiqkadim
May be he sware of things he create and wants us to think of these things because a great thing there must be someone greater that creat it.

 

[Eucharisted]

I found this blog amusing, and relevant to the thread. Now it dose include profanity, and some uses of “Mo” for Mohammed, so if you don’t like that, don’t check out the blog.

uzzas.blogspot.com/2008/11/mansions-of-stars.html

Despite the profanity, the user seems to make some sense.

 

[inJESUS]

Yes, thank you for the quotes, and one can see there is difference between swearing by Himself and swearing by horses and their hooves and no Muslim can say the “corrupters” elevate God more than Allah himself does.

By those that run snorting then bring out spark of fires from stones by striking their hoops, then devastate at morning, then at times they raise clouds of dust (surah 100).

I mean, we have supposedly the creator swearing by horses.

 

[jakasaki]

I found the verses

And in the Qu’ran, I found this:

Muslims may want to also raise the issue of Bible corruption, that these biblical references are corrupted. Apart from the fact that Muslims have no conclusive and convincing evidence to support such a position, it is apparent that those Muslims who would even posit this theory haven’t pondered this matter seriously. If the Muslims are correct then this means that copyists and scribes corrupted the text so as to give God even greater glory, exalting him even higher than the Quran exalts Allah!

There is a further problem with Allah swearing by things other than himself. Swearing by something that is less than myself, I am actually weakening the value of my statement. An oath is supposed to increase the weight or seriousness of what I say, but if I swear by something less than myself, I am decreasing the weight of my claim. In case people do not want to see these Quranic oaths as deification, or shirk, they still have a problem since the value of the oath is connected with the value of the entity that is appealed to. If one does not want to agree that an oath by the fig (S. 95:1) elevates the fig to a position of deity (shirk), then one has the opposite effect that the value of the oath is decreased to the value of the fig. Does that then mean Allah is not serious? Is he even joking? Perhaps Allah never intended to keep his oaths when swearing by all these other things? After all, his statements and promises are accompanied by oaths to trivial things, not to himself.

(Source)

I found this answer on Yahoo Answers (same question):

natiqkadim
May be he sware of things he create and wants us to think of these things because a great thing there must be someone greater that creat it.

Yahoo answers (Y!A) was designed as a true Q!A site until it was hijacked by a bunch of kids many years ago.

Although there are many good answers there with known sites for reference, I know that site quite well and it’s an opion and guessing site.

Perhaps you can find what you are looking for here:

answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allahs_oaths.htm

If not, my pardon…

God Bless

 

[Parabol]

I think it’s different to swear by the ‘sounds of a horses hooves’ then to swear by the animal itself. Wouldn’t the example be describing something that doesn’t change?

If God swore on the ‘roundness of a circle’ it would be the same, the idea being sworn is never going to change (although God could will it to be so we assume God will not) so it might not be ‘less than’ God ‘swearing by God’s self’.

 

[Eucharisted]

I think it’s different to swear by the ‘sounds of a horses hooves’ then to swear by the animal itself. Wouldn’t the example be describing something that doesn’t change?

If God swore on the ‘roundness of a circle’ it would be the same, the idea being sworn is never going to change (although God could will it to be so we assume God will not) so it might not be ‘less than’ God ‘swearing by God’s self’.

When you make an oath, you swear by a higher power, because you’re saying “on the authority of this higher power…” In other words, you’re using the authority of the higher power to back up your words. You need authority to make an oath, or else it’s not an oath, just words coming out of your mouth. The reason is because anyone can say something (but not do it), but it takes authority to promise something and do it: the authoirty not only gives your words meaning and power, it also tells the listeners that you mean what you say and your words will be done and it presses on your shoulders the “burden” to keep your words true. Hence, to swear by a lesser authoirty is ridiculous, because you are making an oath by something lower than your authority, by something that dose not have the authority to back up your words and give your words power, due to it being less than your own authority. It would be like a man swearing by his pet turtle, or a living man swearing by a human corpse. But if a man were to swear by a saint, or by God, than his words would make sense, because he’s swearing by a higher authority. Now, if man swearing by an animal is riduculous, than how much more insane is it for a god - for the god, Allah - to be swearing by a star or by a horse’ noises or by some other created thing? Since there is no other higher being than God, God can only swear by Himself, and He can do this, too, because, by swearing by Himself, He is saying His words are true and He will not disapppint. Some would ask why would God swear by Himself if His words are always true, and the answer is simple: God swears by Himself because He is making an example for us, He is giving us the absolute assurance of His words, and He is teaching us that He is the highest authority, that He alone is God.

It’s not about the symbolic unchanging-ness of that which is sworn by (such as the roundness of a circle), nor is it about giving special mention to some created thing, nor is it about declaring all of the universe pointing to God’s glory and existence: it is about the authority of the oath. If God swears by a creature or creation, even all of creation, than His words are meaningless, for not even the whole of creation is equal to God’s majesty and greatness, and to say otherwise would not only be blasmphemy but also pantheism.

 

[inJESUS]

I agree with Eucharisted. Even in Islam, swearing by anything except Allah is not allowed because Allah is greater than all, so how can Allah swear by that which Muslims themselves do not consider an authority of oath ? how can Allah swear by the horses and their hooves? what about Allah swearing by donkeys? how can Allah swear by that which is *below *him to *confirm *his words?

And lo! that verily is a tremendous oath, if ye but knew (waqia 76)

so what is so tremendous about swearing by horses and their hooves? what is so great with Allah swearing by that which is below him ?

 

[Sam_777]

Even Allah swears by the figs and olives.

However, the Islamic interpretation regarding it that the human being is obliged to swear by the highest authority which is in this case is Allah himself, but that obligation doesn’t work on Allah, so Allah is free to swear by whatever he wants (even if its lower than him).

I know that sounds illogical, but that what most clerics told me.

 

[Parabol]

It’s not about the symbolic unchanging-ness of that which is sworn by (such as the roundness of a circle), nor is it about giving special mention to some created thing, nor is it about declaring all of the universe pointing to God’s glory and existence: it is about the authority of the oath. If God swears by a creature or creation, even all of creation, than His words are meaningless, for not even the whole of creation is equal to God’s majesty and greatness, and to say otherwise would not only be blasmphemy but also pantheism.

I understand your point but mine was different.

 

[inJESUS]

However, the Islamic interpretation regarding it that the human being is obliged to swear by the highest authority which is in this case is Allah himself, but that obligation doesn’t work on Allah, so Allah is free to swear by whatever he wants (even if its lower than him).

I know that sounds illogical, but that what most clerics told me.

God can do whatever he wants but does making creatures His equal fit ?will God swear by horses to confirm His words? there are things that God does and which humans can grasp, and things that are beyond human grasp, but in this case, it is against both reason and scriptures that God swears by horses so the answer you were given is actually no answer at all because it is like saying humans must deify no one except Allah but Allah can deify whoever he wants , or that humans cannot sin but Allah can…

 

[morning_star777]

Very good thread my friend inJESUS.I think Muslims should participate.

 

[Eucharisted]

Even Allah swears by the figs and olives.

However, the Islamic interpretation regarding it that the human being is obliged to swear by the highest authority which is in this case is Allah himself, but that obligation doesn’t work on Allah, so Allah is free to swear by whatever he wants (even if its lower than him).

I know that sounds illogical, but that what most clerics told me.

Christians believe God is immune to orders and needs, yet, He dose not do illogical things; being All-Knowing, He knows that by swearing by Himself He confirms His words. So it seems that Allah is ignorant of his own omnipotent, or perhaps he is only jesting when He makes the oath.

A twisted form of logic someone could use to justify Allah’s oaths is to point out the majesty of things he’s swearing by and the number of oaths he’s taking to confirm His words - which is similar to what Jesus warned His disciples against:

In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words. (Matt 6:7)

 

[morning_star777]

Even Allah swears by the figs and olives.

However, the Islamic interpretation regarding it that the human being is obliged to swear by the highest authority which is in this case is Allah himself, but that obligation doesn’t work on Allah, so Allah is free to swear by whatever he wants (even if its lower than him).

I know that sounds illogical, but that what most clerics told me.

It is the real problem my brother,that muslim clerics do not know actually what are they saying.In a book I have read about the salat of Allah.When Muhammed went to Miraz then via firishta allah informed him(Muhammed) that,wait allah is praying Salat.And later this writer explained that allah was praying to himself like “I am allah the most glorious” etc etc.But I still do not understand than How can Allah pray to himself .And later I have asked some clerics and they informed me that Allah can do everything,so it is OK if allah prays to himself.Anyway my friend sam,have you any Idea about that story?Is it supported by Authentic Hadith or just a story?

PS.I have read the story in a bengali book named “Vishsha Nobi”
or universal prophet of prophet for the universe(perhaps it has better English name).And the writer is Gulam Mustafa.Indeed our sister Muslim woman also read that book.

 

[morning_star777]

If Islamic Allah can swear by the name of horse,donkey etc then indeed Allah is a Pagan,a different type of pagan god who always swear by the name of his own creation.And Also a great deceiver who forbade man not to swear by the name of anyone,except by the name of Allah,but Allah himself is doing so.Actually Islam has thousands of errors and this swear theory of Allah is also a fatal mistake.Btw,dear Muslims,in bible our God never swear like your Allah.So who is the mighty one?Your Allah or Our God?Allah always needs swear to prove himself correct,but God need no swear(by the name of anything) to prove himself.

 

[inJESUS]

Just imagine Allah swearing by a donkey, i mean, really, does that fit into “he can do whatever he wants”? Allah, the Master, swearing by horses?? i hope there is another explanation.

 

[morning_star777]

Just imagine Allah swearing by a donkey, i mean, really, does that fit into “he can do whatever he wants”? Allah, the Master, swearing by horses?? i hope there is another explanation.

Who knows my friend?At least I do not know the explanation.You know,I was totally confused with the contradictory teaching of islam and upset with the violent teachings about non muslims.And that’s why since 2002 to 2007 I was atheist,and finally Christ saved me by showing the way.But still I do not understand that why Muslims do not want to realize their scriptures’ contradictory teaching!And it is really disgusting that Allah is swearing by the name of Horses.And you saw?Allah needs to swear and challenges, like he challenged that His book has no doubt.And do you not think that this claim is very doubtful?And if Allah really needs any types of swear to proves his works then,then indeed Allah is doubtful about his own purity!!

 

[inJESUS]

Allah needs to swear and challenges, like he challenged that His book has no doubt.

that’s another problem as there was no prophet ever who claimed that his words are from God because no one could bring something like it…it’s just absurd…add to it that by the time Muhammad had about 10 thousand wariers, Musaylima, another self-proclaimed prophet fought by Muhammad, he had 40000 wariors, that is, 4 times the number of Muhammad’s followers, his own laws and Quran and many people after the death of Muhammad followed Musaylama so it seems Musaylama’s Quran met Muhammad’s challenge…Muslims must wake up to such ridiculous challenges that do not fit God’s wisdom.

COLOR=“Red”]And if Allah really needs any types of swear to proves his works then,then indeed Allah is doubtful about his own purity