Allstate terminates manager over anti-homosexuality column

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Found this over on another BBs I visit:
Allstate terminates manager over homosexuality column
On own time, man posted anti-‘gay’ article insurance giant says didn’t reflect its values

Posted: June 24, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Ron Strom
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
A former manager with Allstate has sued the insurance giant, alleging the company, which financially supports homosexual advocacy groups, fired him solely because he wrote a column posted on several websites that was critical of same-sex marriage and espoused his Christian beliefs.

Full Story
Looks like I will be shoppinhg for a new insurer when my policy is up in a few months. And I will give th is as the reason no matter how the case comes out.

PF
 
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WanderAimlessly:
Looks like I will be shoppinhg for a new insurer when my policy is up in a few months. And I will give th is as the reason no matter how the case comes out.

PF
Nice move WA. I would do the same if they were my insurer.
 
Hi guys!

It’s a free market. Nobody has a right to a job anywhere and generally speaking, private companies should have pretty wide latitude to determine the makeup of their staff.
 
Other Eric:
Hi guys!

It’s a free market. Nobody has a right to a job anywhere and generally speaking, private companies should have pretty wide latitude to determine the makeup of their staff.
You’re right. It’s a free market.

That means we’ve got the right to take our business elsewhere.
 
Kay Cee:
You’re right. It’s a free market.

That means we’ve got the right to take our business elsewhere.
Hi Kay Cee!

No argument from me here. I’m just not impressed with this former employee’s decision to address this grievance in court.
 
No sympathy here… If the employee did not agree with the employer’s policies, he should not have been outraged by termination.

Substitute homosexuality with Black or Muslim or Jew or woman.

The now ex-Allstate employee is still free to write whatever he wishes. I am sure he will be able to find a place of employment where his views on life are shared and protected.

I am keeping my Allstate insurance.🙂
 
Other Eric:
It’s a free market. Nobody has a right to a job anywhere and generally speaking, private companies should have pretty wide latitude to determine the makeup of their staff.
And we have the right not to do business with comanies that engage in viewpoint discrimination. What he did, he did on his own time. He did not do it on the company’s time. And it looks like the state if Illinois agrees:
Said the agency’s report: “The claimant was discharged from Allstate Insurance Company because an outside organization had complained about an article he had written while on his own time.”

The state agency also ruled Barber did not engage in misconduct, saying, “The term misconduct means the deliberate and willful violation of a reasonable rule or policy of the employer. … In this case, the claimant’s action which resulted in his discharge was not deliberate and willful.”
PF
 
I think this man has the right to write any kind of editorial he wants on his own time, as long as he doesn’t represent himself as an Allstate employee while doing so. Companies are reaching out way too far to control the activities of their employees when away from work.

I read the full article, and the problem occurred because the web site attached biographical information to the byline of the article stating that the writer was employed by Allstate. This can cause people to assume that the writer is presenting official Allstate policy, and the company then has a legitimate gripe.

It’s unfortunate, because the writer did not know (and did not approve) of the addition of his employment status to the article’s byline. Hopefully his other career activities will keep him afloat until he finds another “day job”.

Crazy Internet Junkie Society
****Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
 
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, if there is any justice within our judicial system Allstate will take a heavy spanking for this. So long as the person is not speaking for the company and is no working with its competitors, no company has any business telling any employee what they can, and cannot write in their off time. What if the man were to write a novel off time that Allstate did not like?

I wonder if Allstate is aware of the 1st amendment?!
 
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TPJCatholic:
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, if there is any justice within our judicial system Allstate will take a heavy spanking for this. So long as the person is not speaking for the company and is no working with its competitors, no company has any business telling any employee what they can, and cannot write in their off time. What if the man were to write a novel off time that Allstate did not like?

I wonder if Allstate is aware of the 1st amendment?!
Hi TPJCatholic!

Be careful what you wish for. I think if Allstate were to receive a penalty over this that it would become that much more difficult for employers to fire those who spend their free time engrossed in more depraved pursuits. Would this man’s First Amendment rights similarly kick in if he had written an editorial praising man-boy love? Do the employee’s First Amendment rights trump the private company’s right to freedom of association?
 
Other,

Companies do not own private time and have no business telling anyone what they can do…so long as the actions are legal.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Other,

Companies do not own private time and have no business telling anyone what they can do…so long as the actions are legal.
Hi TPJCatholic!

Sorry, I disagree. I do not think that we should hamstring employers in such a way that they cannot fire an employee until he or she actually does something illegal. Think of what type of floodgates you would be opening.
 
Other Eric,

Hello to you. 🙂

Employers’ functions should be bound to the product and/or services they provide. They should not be able to stretch their hands into our private affairs. The man in question was voicing his own opinion in a perfectly legal and MORAL manner, yet he was fired for doing something legal and moral just because the company does not agree with his personal views. I would agree with you if he was handing out his column at work, or if he said he was speaking for the company, etc…yet he did not do any of that, he was merely voicing a personal opinion in a legal and moral way.

Tell me, what if the same company has a problem with families who have more then two kids? According to your point of view that company should be able to dump employees who have too many children (in their eyes), or hold a strong religious view, or do any number of things the company execs may not agree with…should they all lose their jobs simply because they hold personal views their company does not like? What if certain public company execs start to hate Catholics, should all of their Catholics be fired?

At will employees can be dumped, we all know that. However, in this case the employee was quite obviously discriminated against for a holding a person view the company did not like–that is discrimination, plain and simple and it is also a clear breking of the man’s right to free speech.

Let us reverse the scenario. Let us say the man wrote a personal column that strongly supports gays and their lifestyles. Let’s say the company execs were strong Christians and found that man’s opinions to be out of line, so the Christian execs fire the man. Do you not realize that there would be a huge uproaor over such a firing?
 
Other Etic,

BTW, if a man were to wear dresses at night in his personal life, that is none of the company’s business. If the man wears a dress to work, that becomes the company’s business and they should be able to take action.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Other Eric,

Hello to you. 🙂

Employers’ functions should be bound to the product and/or services they provide. They should not be able to stretch their hands into our private affairs. The man in question was voicing his own opinion in a perfectly legal and MORAL manner, yet he was fired for doing something legal and moral just because the company does not agree with his personal views. I would agree with you if he was handing out his column at work, or if he said he was speaking for the company, etc…yet he did not do any of that, he was merely voicing a personal opinion in a legal and moral way.

Tell me, what if the same company has a problem with families who have more then two kids? According to your point of view that company should be able to dump employees who have too many children (in their eyes), or hold a strong religious view, or do any number of things the company execs may not agree with…should they all lose their jobs simply because they hold personal views their company does not like? What if certain public company execs start to hate Catholics, should all of their Catholics be fired?

At will employees can be dumped, we all know that. However, in this case the employee was quite obviously discriminated against for a holding a person view the company did not like–that is discrimination, plain and simple and it is also a clear breking of the man’s right to free speech.

Let us reverse the scenario. Let us say the man wrote a personal column that strongly supports gays and their lifestyles. Let’s say the company execs were strong Christians and found that man’s opinions to be out of line, so the Christian execs fire the man. Do you not realize that there would be a huge uproaor over such a firing?
Hi TPJCatholic!

Well, as a matter of law, I think an employer should have the right to fire any of the individuals in the examples that you’ve given. I’m not saying that this would be the right thing to do, I’m saying that the employer ought to have wide latitude to dictate the makeup of his staff. Similarly, you and I have to right not to make use of the employer’s products and/or services if we disagree that strongly with his employment policy.

On a practical level, it does not make sense for an employer to have such a policy. The market would force him to be more tolerant and go with whatever standards the culture dictates.
 
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TPJCatholic:
At will employees can be dumped, we all know that. However, in this case the employee was quite obviously discriminated against for a holding a person view the company did not like–that is discrimination, plain and simple and it is also a clear breking of the man’s right to free speech.
It seems the problem in this case was the unfortunate addition of a byline to the writer’s work, identifying him as an Allstate employee. It wasn’t his fault; he didn’t even know about it. In light of that, I think Allstate acted too hastily. When business corporations try to control their employees’ thoughts (outside the workplace, no less), they go too far. But this is where “employment at will” has led us; it is only the logical result of such a policy.

Crazy Internet Junkie Society
****Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
 
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Bella3502:
No sympathy here… If the employee did not agree with the employer’s policies, he should not have been outraged by termination.

Substitute homosexuality with Black or Muslim or Jew or woman.

The now ex-Allstate employee is still free to write whatever he wishes. I am sure he will be able to find a place of employment where his views on life are shared and protected.

I am keeping my Allstate insurance.🙂
You present a very false analogy and it is dangerous because it equates sexual actions that lack procreative and unitive love with ethnicity, which is a statement of a physical characteristic. Race and ethnicity are part of a person’s being. Performing homosexual acts or lobbying for same sex marriage is an * action * and a sinful one at that.

Christianity has no issue with people who suffer with SSA, but acting on it, like an alcoholic acting on a drink, is another matter. It is the action that is immoral not the state of being. There is no parallel here; one is NOT a bigot by proclaiming the truth and decrying perverse behavior; on the contrary it’s a loving act to charitably state the truth.

To elevate perverse actions to the valiant movement of civil rights is a grotesque distortion of the truth.

Peace and God bless
 
MichaelTDoyle said:
"Christianity has no issue with people who suffer with SSA, but acting on it, like an alcoholic acting on a drink, is another matter. It is the action that is immoral not the state of being. There is no parallel here; one is NOT a bigot by proclaiming the truth and decrying perverse behavior; on the contrary it’s a loving act to charitably state the truth.

“To elevate perverse actions to the valiant movement of civil rights is a grotesque distortion of the truth.”

Well said, Michael!

I was one who was in moral error for many, many years.
How would I have known the joys of a purer life if not for people
who are willing to speak the Truth in love? God bless those who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness!
 
Carol,

All that has to happen is judges need to see how terrible this action was and punish the company severely. Companies will then think twice before sticking their noses into the personal lives of their employees.
 
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