Allstate terminates manager over anti-homosexuality column

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Traditional Ang:
Other Eric:

Allstate is a PUBLICLY HELD FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION Subject to the by-laws of the SEC and and all the other acts to which such entities are subject. Allstate exists to make a profit by providing services to the community for a fee, which is never waivable.

The Boy Scouts of America is a PRIVATE NON-PROFIT CHARITIABLE ORGANIZATION whose sole purpose is to benefit the boys who are its members, who pay dues and fees which are waivable depending upon the income of the boys’ and their families.

These are two completely different types of organizations covered by completely different sets of Federal Laws.

I read some of your previous posts, and I saw that you understood that much of the “Child Molestation Scandal” actually involved homosexual priests having sex with boys who were between 11-17. This supports the BSA’s decision since that’s the ages for boy scouts and explorer scouts.

The BSA, miraculously, escaped having that scandal.

I have to assume that you are a LIBERTARIAN in political philosophy. Although I find some logic to Liberanianism, I find that having a government functional AMMORALLY, although it may sound easy, doesn’t really work socially.

We need a government to have a MORAL Public Policy, and not one based on convenience or which party happens to be in power - that requies vigillence on the part of those of us who vote and pay our taxes. It requires that we stay involved in how our government works, and it requires that we insist that our values (which are the majority values) be the one the govenment represents in its Laws.

And, it may require that we actively supporft Godly candidates, oppose ungodly ones and that we be willing to take and give a few lumps.

The other choice is either to ceed the field to the Ungodly, or to insist on a Libertarian form of government which is incapable of dealing with real national and regional emergencies or od developing areas of the country to the benefit of all so that the Ungodly have no real power.

The only problem with that is, the Ungodly have ways of grabbing power when the decent aren’t looking.

So, we have to decide what laws we as a people want to be in place and what laws we want enforced.

Remember, Libertarianism only worked when Small Government was confronting Small Business and Small Labor. That’s not the case today.

God Bless, Michael
Hi Traditional Ang!

Conceivably this man would have an action, not under the First Amendment but under Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Even here, an employer is required to reasonably accommodate the religious belief of an employee or prospective employee, unless doing so would impose an undue hardship. In this case, with the employee having been identified as an Allstate employee making claims that the company does not happen to agree with, I believe the termination was proper. Allstate has the right to dissociate itself from points of view that it does not share. If the employee was improperly identified as an Allstate employee, then his proper action is against the publication that so identified him, not the company.

This does not touch upon the deeper issue of whether the government should identify a religion, such as Christianity, as a protected category. What does it mean to be Christian? Is it a status – a state of being – a word that typifies one’s membership in a suspect, minority class no different than Black or Female? Let’s consider… To be Black or Female, one need only be Black or Female. Membership in either class is contingent upon nothing. It’s a state of being, which represents entirely neutral qualities (i.e., skin color and/or gender). On the other hand, Christianity is contingent upon something… behavior – a person’s actions – choices made – their “faith.” It’s the end result of choosing to define one’s identity based upon with whom, and how one elects to worship. For myself, I can see no cogent reason why a Christian should have special rights in this instance.
 
Other Eric,

You are ignoring the fact that the employee did NOT identify himself as an Allstate employee, that label was placed on his head without his permission and Allstate knows that–if the articles are correct, that will be quite easy to prove and the man should win a very good settlement, I pray he does, these are cases where companies need to be pounded very hard, hard enough to make them not do it again.
 
Now why doesn’t Allstate fire admitted sodomites instead of those who write against it?
 
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TPJCatholic:
Other Eric,

You are ignoring the fact that the employee did NOT identify himself as an Allstate employee, that label was placed on his head without his permission and Allstate knows that–if the articles are correct, that will be quite easy to prove and the man should win a very good settlement, I pray he does, these are cases where companies need to be pounded very hard, hard enough to make them not do it again.
Hi TPJCatholic!

Well, you are free to pray for his success, but I will not. Such a success will provide precedent and be perverted by homosexual activists, just as the Federal Equal Access Act has been distorted.
 
Other Eric,

You have it exactly reversed. It is homosexual activism that has convinced Allstate to fire a person for writing about his opinion, outside of work and completely away from any legal control Allstate has over him. If he wins it will reduce homosexual activism, not increase it.

It is amazing how you continue to dodge my questions. 🙂
You must feel uncomfortable with the thought of giving honest answers to my questions. 🙂
 
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TPJCatholic:
Other Eric,

You have it exactly reversed. It is homosexual activism that has convinced Allstate to fire a person for writing about his opinion, outside of work and completely away from any legal control Allstate has over him. If he wins it will reduce homosexual activism, not increase it.

It is amazing how you continue to dodge my questions. 🙂
You must feel uncomfortable with the thought of giving honest answers to my questions. 🙂
Hi TPJCatholic!

A person’s skin color, gender, age or national origin is something over which he can have no reasonable control, so in those instances, Federal Law may have a legitimate purpose in promoting justice.

What you do not seem to understand is that a victory for this Allstate employee today is a victory for a NAMBLA advocate tomorrow.
 
Other Eric:
Hi Brad!

I prefer Allstate’s policy to an employment policy dictated by the government to a private company that changes based on the mores of whatever political party happens to be in the majority at the time.
Not sure what you mean. Sorry.
 
Other Eric,

Thank you for the chat, but since you have routinely chosen not to answer my challenges and questions, I really see no point in furthering this discussion (it is not really a discussion anyway).

Again, thank you and God Bless. 🙂
 
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Brad:
Not sure what you mean. Sorry.
Hi Brad!

It means I don’t trust allowing the Courts broad authority to determine what personnel decisions an employer makes constitute illegal religious discrimination. I’d rather that be decided by the public, with their wallets.
 
Other Eric:
Hi Brad!

It means I don’t trust allowing the Courts broad authority to determine what personnel decisions an employer makes constitute illegal religious discrimination. I’d rather that be decided by the public, with their wallets.
I see. My question was regarding whether the poster agreed with the Allstate policy though. I do not agree with it and thus they won’t see anything from my wallet.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Other Eric,

Thank you for the chat, but since you have routinely chosen not to answer my challenges and questions, I really see no point in furthering this discussion (it is not really a discussion anyway).

Again, thank you and God Bless. 🙂
Hi TPJCatholic!

I’m afraid I do not know what you are talking about. You asked whether I would support Allstate firing another employee for writing a pro-gay article, I answered affirmatively. You asked whether I thought laws barring discrimination based on race or age should be permitted, I answered in the negative. I articulated the bases for the distinction, which I would have thought implied the answer to your question over whether a company should have unrestricted license to hire and fire. Your last couple of posts contained no questions at all, so I am somewhat mystified as to what questions you are referring to.

But, as long as we’re going to end the conversation here, I would point out that you have yet to address the very real danger that a victory for this employee creates a precedent that leads us down a slippery slope to not being able to fire people with more odious opinions.

Talk to you later! 🙂
 
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Brad:
I see. My question was regarding whether the poster agreed with the Allstate policy though. I do not agree with it and thus they won’t see anything from my wallet.
Hi Brad!

As it happens, I do not agree with Allstate’s decision here. I do not, however question their right to make it and, like you have chosen, they won’t be seeing any money from my wallet either.
 
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Bella3502:
No sympathy here… If the employee did not agree with the employer’s policies, he should not have been outraged by termination.

Substitute homosexuality with Black or Muslim or Jew or woman.

The now ex-Allstate employee is still free to write whatever he wishes. I am sure he will be able to find a place of employment where his views on life are shared and protected.

I am keeping my Allstate insurance.🙂
**In America we have been given a right to free speech. Every American regardless of their beliefs should be outraged. His comment was religious in nature and stood up for values you and I suppose to stand up for!!! This employee wrote his paper on personal time without any reference to Allstate! No company should have the right to tell us what we can or cannot do in our spare time, especially regarding the expression of our Faith. I can imagine being discharged because I am a member and co-founder of the Right to Life in my county or writing editorials about the evil of abortion in my free time. **

**As Catholics we, that includes you, have the obligation to speak out against homosexual marriages, abortion, and euthanasia. How would you like to be terminated for writing an editorial about these subjects of your faith. **

I am about to write one of my superiors about something I read regarding my company’s position on embryonic stem cell research. As a Catholic, it would be a rejection of God not to say anything. If anyone can just sit back and allow such things, they are certainly not Catholic in practice and need to go back and learn their faith – or go elsewhere.

Bob
 
Just remember that if your boss ever sees what you write on the Catholic Answers Forums (and knows that it’s you) and doesn’t like it, then he/she is free to fire you.I am deeply ashamed of the posters here who support Allstate based on their own “tolerance” beliefs toward the homosexual agenda. (I don’t mean “Other Eric” because he is looking at it from a different angle.) There were at least 2 posters who supported it. In my opinion, they shouldn’t even call themselves Christians!! (After all, they really don’t care about what God says or what offends him.)
 
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SusanL:
Just remember that if your boss ever sees what you write on the Catholic Answers Forums (and knows that it’s you) and doesn’t like it, then he/she is free to fire you.I am deeply ashamed of the posters here who support Allstate based on their own “tolerance” beliefs toward the homosexual agenda. (I don’t mean “Other Eric” because he is looking at it from a different angle.) There were at least 2 posters who supported it. In my opinion, they shouldn’t even call themselves Christians!! (After all, they really don’t care about what God says or what offends him.)
I am aware of the risk and accept them. Of course, I would fight being terminated in court for suppression of my right to express my faith and free speech. Never-the-less, to be Catholic, I must stand up for Catholic morality…especially the unborn who do not have defense attorneys to help them fight for their lives!

Bless you!

Bob
 
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WanderAimlessly:
Looks like I will be shoppinhg for a new insurer when my policy is up in a few months. And I will give th is as the reason no matter how the case comes out.
I have followed through on my promise here and I will have new auto insurance as of the beginning of next month. In fact, I will be cancelling my Allstate Policy as soon as I get the official paperwork in the mail.

PF
 
This is an example of how many Christians suffer from a severe lack of blindness. It’s just like they fail to see what Christ’s enemies are doing to his Church and to his followers. They are afraid to tell the truth for fear of being despised, hated, rediculed, berated or not permitted to live here. Just looks like we are in a cosmic cave even as we speak. It’s interesting to point out how the currency says “In God we trust”. It should be “In the dollar we trust”. We make so much money that our insatiable greed has caused us to stimulate ever more money from the seculars, atheists, nonbelievers. They will take over America if we let them.
 
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WanderAimlessly:
Found this over on another BBs I visit:
Looks like I will be shoppinhg for a new insurer when my policy is up in a few months. And I will give th is as the reason no matter how the case comes out.

PF
Why wait for your policy term to be up:? You can cancel at will, just be sure that when you incept a new policy wiht another carrier that the policies do not overlap. An agent or good rep will assist you with this timing.
 
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JCPhoenix:
Why wait for your policy term to be up:? You can cancel at will, just be sure that when you incept a new policy wiht another carrier that the policies do not overlap. An agent or good rep will assist you with this timing.
The original message was posted in June. I had just moved from another state and was (and still is) very busy at work. Since it was paid up, I decided to wait until the policy was up (which it is in December).

Besides, maybe they would reverse what they did. I have not seen this happen.

PF
 
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