Almost lost another Catholic to Entertaingelicals.

[genealogist]

The Church in America needs to address the fact that things have CHANGED since the late 19th century when the immigrant influx increased Catholic numbers in the USA. The parochial schools were created/expanded to keep the immigrant kids Catholic and introduce them to America. The army of nuns made that possible. Also in 1890 Father was the most educated man in the parish. That’s not true in 2005.

It is much more difficult to fund a parish school without those sisters. Lay teachers get married and have families. If you don’t send your child to the parish school it is very difficult to get connected. Even if you want to there are few opportunities.

While America has changed, the TRUTH has not. We need to try to offer educational and other opportunities to deaneries to increase those low turnouts the DRE shared. I would also like to see megaparishes that offer everything the evangelical world offers in terms of childcare, kids’ programs, Bible studies while still being Catholic. I think a megaparish could offer the indult Mass the EWTN style Mass and even a “praise music” Mass with more “hip” music. It is not that we have to sell out but we must make adjustments where we can and not say it has to be only one way.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Malachi4U]

I went to Protestant sects for 27 years and I must agree with you, I really did enjoy the wonderful stage show production they put on.

The Catholic Church is often BORING!

So, why am I Catholic? Because the Catholic Church has the truth in it. It has Christ (Eucharist) in it. It is the visible body of Christ on earth. Jesus founded it. Jesus told us to remain LOYAL to it.

Jesus did not tell us to go to get great entertainment every Sunday. He did found us a Church to attend every Sunday for those of us that have stayed loyal to Him and Catholic.

Do you think people followed Jesus because HE entertained them with a great stage show? Perhaps He was boring and they followed Him because He taught the truth?

I’ll go to a a boring mass anyday over going to a merry and gay stage show production that lacks truth but make up for it with fun and games, health and wealth, spitting and shouting sermons, dancing on stage but not in public, etc…

Protestant preachers with a gift for speach keep getting hired by bigger and bigger churches and leaving the old one to look for another. The bad Protestant preachers remain poor and in the little out of way churches. Good preachers typically follow the money.

Catholic clergy is assigned. You may get a boring one or a gifted speaker. You might say they are distributed fairly among rich and poor, big and small churches.

 

[Melanie01]

After Mass and Benediction this Saturday morning went and had breakfast at a pals place as it was our turn to clean our little church .

A knock on the front door… the JWs had arrived. They had not counted on Bill, the other brother. Well for about 30 minutes Bill turned on the Catholic Apologetics and how. The Bible was called for not the expurgated protestant one but the real deal, pamphlets were given to the JWs, a glass of water as they decided to flee overwhelmed with such persistance…Around the breaky table a prayer went up to give Bill the grace required to preach the Truth.

Suspect the house has a big BLACK mark on it to avoid for now on…

 

[ahimsaman72]

bengeorge:

My friend just called saying that she felt like the priest at her local parish (Nacogdoches TX) was so boring that in spite of her trying to focus, she often drifted off during mass.

She contrasted this to the great time she had at the local “non-denominational” church, praising God and doing Bible lessons.

I don’t blame her, she was poorly catechised, and after I spoke with her she agreed that the Catholic Church was right, but she asked “Why aren’t there more things to do?”

AND I HAVE TO AGREE!

How is it that even in the smallest of towns, you can have little non-denom churches with vibrant church life, and the local Catholic church is so dull?

It just makes me mad, the sloppy catechisis, the uninspired and trite homilies, the unfriendliness and the coldness of the people, the lack of study opportunities.

WAKE UP.

As a young person, try to start an interesting and engaging program at your local parish… what do you get? Naysaying old ladies and suspicious DREs and sleepwalking priests all saying “We’ll look into thaaatt mm-k?”

arrgh!

Not all EVANGELICAL churches have stageshows and rock bands. The Baptist church I frequent is low-key. We sing traditional hymns, pray and listen to the sermon. It’s not jumping, hollering, spitting, dancing, etc. etc.

Many conservative churches consider the mega-church approach to be quite offensive to God. They realize that big productions, restaurants inside and other things are really distractions, not helpful parts of the church experience.

I am one of those conservatives.

Peace…

 

[RCCDefender]

Malachi4U:

The Catholic Church is often BORING!

So, why am I Catholic? Because the Catholic Church has the truth in it. It has Christ (Eucharist) in it. It is the visible body of Christ on earth. Jesus founded it. Jesus told us to remain LOYAL to it.

Jesus did not tell us to go to get great entertainment every Sunday. He did found us a Church to attend every Sunday for those of us that have stayed loyal to Him and Catholic.

Do you think people followed Jesus because HE entertained them with a great stage show? Perhaps He was boring and they followed Him because He taught the truth?

I’ll go to a a boring mass anyday over going to a merry and gay stage show production that lacks truth but make up for it with fun and games, health and wealth, spitting and shouting sermons, dancing on stage but not in public, etc…

Protestant preachers with a gift for speach keep getting hired by bigger and bigger churches and leaving the old one to look for another. The bad Protestant preachers remain poor and in the little out of way churches. Good preachers typically follow the money.

Jesus never promised to keep us entertained. And, in fact, I am leaving my liberal, Frank Sinatra homilies parish for a much more boring parish because the former seems more interested in making everybody “feel good” about themselves. They have a DRE who specifically said as she was going through RCIA that “the Catholic Church will never get a former Baptist to believe in the real presence.” Well, she was wrong. I am living proof of that.

If going to mass to receive Jesus Christ into your own body is boring, then may I be bored to tears!

 

[santaro75]

ahimsaman72:

Not all EVANGELICAL churches have stageshows and rock bands. The Baptist church I frequent is low-key. We sing traditional hymns, pray and listen to the sermon. It’s not jumping, hollering, spitting, dancing, etc. etc.

Many conservative churches consider the mega-church approach to be quite offensive to God. They realize that big productions, restaurants inside and other things are really distractions, not helpful parts of the church experience.

I am one of those conservatives.

Peace…

Why does God let it happen and bless them with so many particpants and attention?

One that comes to mind is one in Houston that has the “church experience” down to a science and is wildly successful because of it. If the Catholic church is God’s chruch then why is it half empty in the same neighborhood?

Or could it be a matter of personal preference?

 

[ahimsaman72]

santaro75:

Why does God let it happen and bless them with so many particpants and attention?

One that comes to mind is one in Houston that has the “church experience” down to a science and is wildly successful because of it. If the Catholic church is God’s chruch then why is it half empty in the same neighborhood?

Or could it be a matter of personal preference?

Why does God let anything happen? That’s a hard question my friend.

Yes, the one in Houston is a church run by Pastor Joel Osteen. It’s probably the biggest in the country. He just released a new book which my in-laws bought. It’s pretty much rubbish if you aske me - a lot of feel good, self-help, greedy and unBiblical nonsense.

There are many more across the country which have restaurants, gym equipment, etc. It really is quite the opposite of what I envision the church of God to be.

I couldn’t speak for why the Catholic churches attendance is different truly. I think society has become so liberal that the conservative dogma of the Catholic faith is not inviting. I’m not saying the Church is wrong, but that it’s just a possible explanation.

Peace…

 

[WhatMeWorry]

Malachi4U:

I went to Protestant sects for 27 years and I must agree with you, I really did enjoy the wonderful stage show production they put on.

The Catholic Church is often BORING!

So, why am I Catholic? Because the Catholic Church has the truth in it. It has Christ (Eucharist) in it. It is the visible body of Christ on earth. Jesus founded it. Jesus told us to remain LOYAL to it.

Jesus did not tell us to go to get great entertainment every Sunday. He did found us a Church to attend every Sunday for those of us that have stayed loyal to Him and Catholic.

Do you think people followed Jesus because HE entertained them with a great stage show? Perhaps He was boring and they followed Him because He taught the truth?

I’ll go to a a boring mass anyday over going to a merry and gay stage show production that lacks truth but make up for it with fun and games, health and wealth, spitting and shouting sermons, dancing on stage but not in public, etc…

Protestant preachers with a gift for speach keep getting hired by bigger and bigger churches and leaving the old one to look for another. The bad Protestant preachers remain poor and in the little out of way churches. Good preachers typically follow the money.

Catholic clergy is assigned. You may get a boring one or a gifted speaker. You might say they are distributed fairly among rich and poor, big and small churches.

Very well said. If I want to go to a “show,” I’ll buy a concert ticket. I’ve been at a few “praise-band-glory-hallelujah” services like that (had to attend events there for non-Catholic family members) and I was very uncomfortable the whole time. It didn’t seem like “church” at all. I prefer the dignity, respect, and quiet adoration of the Mass.

 

[mylo]

WhatMeWorry:

I prefer the dignity, respect, and quiet adoration of the Mass.

I second that. Some of the local non-denom churches in my town give an impression of being rather superficial. Or at the very least, come for the coffee vs. come for Our Lord.

 

[msh]

My opinion of the megachurches is that they cater what people want and not what people need. It’s gimmegimmegimme instead of give give give. Why can’t we as parishoners be bothered to have our own study groups, our own catechism classes, our own formation development? Why can’t we print out interesting discussions from these very forums and pass them around to our church friends and see what (name removed by moderator)ut they can give? Why can’t we help build our faith?

I’m ‘young’, just 25. My church has 3000 parishoners and growing. They too struggle with getting programs together - not for a lack of people who will volunteer to lead those programs - but for a lack of people who will come learn and be active. The best way to get some interest generated is that grassroots effort, get the people together who do want a change, and help inspire the hearts of those who just don’t know what they are missing. Be the light of Christ for those who feel it only can be seen on the altar and show them He is everywhere, in all of us, just waiting to come out.

 

[mayorloz]

It is NOT like the church didn’t know this was a problem, but rather that the church does not CARE one iota about changing, it is willing to sit there decade after decade watching the mass exodus out the door before admitting the glaringly obvious, it is doing a second or THIRD rate job in meeting the legitimate needs of those seekers trying to find a meaningful God serviced in a meaningful way in a meaningful local parish.

This article was from 1991 … almost fifteen years ago, and if anything, it is worse now than then.

Copyright 1991, Our Sunday Visitor. Used with permission.

SECTS EDUCATION

by Ralph Martin

In early April Pope John Paul II called a meeting of the world’s cardinals to discuss the rise of the "“sects.” The Vatican uses the word “sect” to refer to the Evangelical and Pentecostal churches that are very close to the “mainline” Protestant denominations as regards many basic Christian doctrines, as well as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses and other groups that diverge considerably from these basic Christian doctrines.

The cardinals had a lot to say about the spectacular growth of the Evangelical and Pentecostal churches, which, in Latin America in particular, are attracting many Catholics. Cardinal Miguel Obando y Bravo of Managua, Nicaragua, told the Cardinals that a “Protestant explosion” has seen the number of Protestants in Latin America grow from 4 million in 1967 to 30 million in 1985. Fully 10 percent of Latin Americans are now Protestant. According to reliable estimates, only 15 percent of Latin Americans are active Catholics.

If the growth factors for each country of Latin America are averaged, the Evangelical and Pentecostal percentage of the population there tripled over a period of 25 years. If it triples again in the next 25 years, Evangelicals and Pentecostals will comprise a third of the population by the year 2010.

From 1960 to 1985, Evangelical and Protestant groups have doubled their share of the population in Chile, Paraguay, Venezuela, Panama, and Haiti; tripled their share in Argentina, Nicaragua, and the Dominican Republic; quadrupled their share in Brazil and Puerto Rico; quintupled in El Salvador, Costa Rica, Peru, and Bolivia; and sextupled in Guatemala, Honduras, Ecuador, and Colombia.

The same trend is visible in the United States. American Catholic leaders have also expressed a great concern about the growth of Evangelical and Pentecostal churches in this country, a growth that often comes through Catholics leaving their churches. Here, statistics are hard to come by. Much anecdotal evidence suggests that many members of Pentecostal and independent charismatic churches are former Catholics. This is especially true of regions with a large Catholic population. One researcher who did an informal survey estimates that 30 percent of the 35 million Evangelicals and Pentecostals in the United States are first- or second-generation former Catholics.

Hispanic Catholics in particular are leaving the Catholic Church for these Evangelical, Pentecostal, and independent charismatic churches. A 1986 Gallup Poll revealed that in the preceding 10 years 5 million Hispanics joined Evangelical and Pentecostal churches-approximately 30 percent of the 17 million Hispanics in the United States. Of these, 64 percent converted to these groups from Catholicism.

Catholic leaders often “blame” Protestants for proselytizing Catholics and commend us for the “richness” of our faith. However, we need to face the embarrassing question of why so many millions of Catholics around the world are finding a reality of Christian life in Evangelical and Pentecostal churches that they did not find in their local Catholic church.

The wrong kind of Catholic pride twists confidence in the truth and the treasures of Catholicism into complacency. It blinds us to the impoverished state of many Catholic institutions and many Catholics’ lives.

I know of many Catholics who have fallen away from their faith-or who were living in parishes where the gospel was not being preached and morality was not being taught and no support was being given for family life-and who found a living, personal relationship with Jesus Christ in a Baptist or Assembly of God congregation.

Rather than condemning the Protestants for proselytism, we Catholics should consider the possibility that people might find more practical help in the Protestant churches for avoiding hell and attaining heaven than they were getting in their Catholic parishes. … continued in second post.

 

[mayorloz]

continuation of the story…

Personally, I am fully convinced of the truth of Catholicism. I would never counsel anyone to leave the Catholic Church. But don’t we have enough fear of God to tremble at the sight of people leaving the Catholic Church in order to find teaching from the Bible and support for raising their children for Christ?

The wrong kind of pride in Catholicism can put us in a condition similar to that addressed by the prophet Jeremiah: "Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: reform your ways and your deeds, so that I may remain with you in this place. Put not your trust in the deceitful words, ‘This is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord’ n (Jer. 7:1-7).

Is the Catholic Church “the one true church?” I believe it is. But many people in it are perishing. They do not know the Lord Jesus Christ. They are not being taught and fed. They are not being pastored. Their character is not being formed according to Christ. In some cases they are receiving false teaching right in Catholic institutions. Looking at this, we need to come before God in repentance, asking him for mercy, asking him to come and visit us and renew us.

Recently we’ve seen some encouraging signs that such a response to the situation is beginning. As Archbishop Robert Sanchez of Santa Fe, New Mexico said recently in discussing the exodus of Catholics from the Catholic Church as a result of Protestant proselytizing, “Perhaps we should regard this challenging phenomenon not as a threat but rather as a catalyst that has succeeded in capturing our attention and thus turned us away from our indifference and false satisfaction.”

Or, as a Vatican report on the problem stated, “The church is often seen simply as an institution, perhaps because it gives too much importance to structures and not enough to drawing people to God in Christ.”

At the recent meeting of cardinals, Cardinal Francis Arinze pointed out that many of these new religious movements are taking action on the pastoral weak points of the Catholic Church: They supply many forceful leaders and “evangelists” who are trained in a relatively short time where priests are few and scarce; they bring infectious dynamism and remarkable commitment where the Catholic people are lukewarm and indifferent; they focus on salvation only through Christ and take advantage of widespread Catholic confusion regarding the basis of salvation; they install small communities where parishes are too large and impersonal so that individuals feel loved, appreciated, and given a meaningful role; they assign leadership roles where lay people or women feel marginalized; they celebrate fervent religious services where the sacred liturgy is celebrated in a cold and routine manner; they urge personal commitment to Jesus Christ and strict adherence to the Bible where homilies are intellectually above the heads of the people; they stress personal relationship with God where the church seems presented too much as an institution marked by structures and hierarchy.

Cardinal Arinze calls for self-examination: "What makes people join the new religious movements? What are the legitimate needs of people that these movements promise to answer and that the church should be meeting? Are there other causes of the rise and spread of these movements? What does God want of the church in this situation?..

“The dimension of religious experience should not be forgotten in our presentation of Christianity. It is not enough to supply people with intellectual information. Christianity is neither a set of doctrines nor an ethical system. It is life in Christ which can be lived at ever deeper levels.”

In conclusion, Cardinal Arinze noted: "In front of the dynamic activity of the new religious movements, the pastors of the church cannot just go on with ‘business as usual.’ The phenomenon of the new religious movements is a challenge and an opportunity…

 

[JP_Augustine]

ahimsaman72:

Why does God let anything happen? That’s a hard question my friend.

Yes, the one in Houston is a church run by Pastor Joel Osteen. It’s probably the biggest in the country. He just released a new book which my in-laws bought. It’s pretty much rubbish if you aske me - a lot of feel good, self-help, greedy and unBiblical nonsense.

There are many more across the country which have restaurants, gym equipment, etc. It really is quite the opposite of what I envision the church of God to be.

I couldn’t speak for why the Catholic churches attendance is different truly. I think society has become so liberal that the conservative dogma of the Catholic faith is not inviting. I’m not saying the Church is wrong, but that it’s just a possible explanation.

Peace…

Why does God allow the megachurches to grow? Because they’re clearly filling a need–a void, really–that many people in our society sense: a lack of feeling deeply connected to God.

It seems as though many people–some Catholics included–simply drift into a spiritual slumber, and they need to be awakened. Often, it seems as though these megachurches wake people up and give them a sense of connection to God for the first time in a long time – perhaps ever.

For many of these people, the megachurch will simply be enough. And, honestly, I’d rather see people develop a connection with God in the context of a megachurch than live a life disconnected from God. Probably a bit better for their souls, yes?

At the same time, I think a portion of these people who have been spiritually awakened will sense the overall superficial nature of the theology and worship to be found in the megachurches. These people will continue to seek, and I think these are the people who may find their way (or find their way back) to the Catholic Church.

We need to be aware of opportunities with people like this, helping them come to see that being truly Catholic can add a dimension to their worship that they’re not experiencing in their megachurch.

Really, we should be thankful for the work these megachurches are doing. They may be ultimately helping many to come to the Church.

At least, that’s my prayer…

JP Augustine

 

[Mickey]

JP Augustine:

Really, we should be thankful for the work these megachurches are doing. They may be ultimately helping many to come to the Church.

At least, that’s my prayer…

JP Augustine

I pray that you are correct about this JP. Unfortunately, the error that these mega-churches often teach can confuse people or lead them further away from the Catholic Church. But we must trust in the Holy Spirit to guide these lost sheep.

Peace,
Mickey

 

[francisca]

bengeorge:

Well, that doesn’t help my friend much.

And why it should be left up to individual lay people to start their own Bible studies when we have a very wealthy Church and big buildings and people who are getting paid to be the educational leadership…

It’s scandalous.

My prayer group was started by a lay couple. They were not distinguished teachers nor they were exemplary in deeds… in fact they did not teach anything. We only met once a week to sing songs of praises, read the bible, then gave testimonies of what happen on each week for those who want to share God’s goodness in their lives. After that we usually sing one more song, before go home. Sometimes, if we were lucky we could have a speaker (layperson/ priest) to give a short comment / bible discussion / any other topics. Some of the topics were not even interesting at all, but it was OK! Somehow we kept on coming because we wanted to sing and meet each other, and it was all. Sometimes we had healing (laying hand on the sick) if necessary, charismatic mass, novena of the holy spirit once a year (before pantecost until pantecost).

Later I moved away from that parish, thus too far to attend, but I hear that they are still going on strong.

Therefore I realy believe that the Holy Spirit is much more important than any qualified teachers. I do not despise having qualified teachers, accurate bible translations, etc, but I am quite positive that they are not essentials.

What is essential in following God-- in my opinion-- is a heart of thanksgiving and praise. In this, songs of praises does help our tired mind and soul. This kind of songs can change the way we think and change our attitude against life. And somehow-- for no understandable reason-- help us to read bible, help us with our sicknesses & difficulties, help us to believe again.

In doing this, we acknowledge that all good things comes from God, and it is important to know that these things we receive not because we deserve it but because God is good and that He gives freely. And yes, I have received a lot from Him, not from the prayer group leaders, not from the priest, not from any teachers or anyone, but from God whom my community and I praise and give thanks to.

 

[JP_Augustine]

Mickey:

I pray that you are correct about this JP. Unfortunately, the error that these mega-churches often teach can confuse people or lead them further away from the Catholic Church. But we must trust in the Holy Spirit to guide these lost sheep.

Peace,
Mickey

Mickey,

I agree with you on that point…but you’re right: the Holy Spirit can do things with peoples’ hearts that we could never imagine.

BTW, does anybody have any anecdotes about people leaving the megachurches and coming to the Church? If so, I’d be interested in what brings them from the Evangelical movement to the Catholic faith.

JP Augustine

 

[BenK]

I attend a ‘entertaingelical’ megachurch in Melbourne, Australia.

All I can say is that at my church I find myself surrounded by people who are genuinely passionate about Jesus. In eleven years of attending CCC, I have seen people’s faith tested, both as individuals and as a community, and I have seen perseverance through that; though we like to express our devotion through exuberant worship and contemporary music, there are many ‘megachurch’ pentecostals who have a faith with deep roots. I know people who patiently suffered years of chronic illness before miraculous healing; I know of bitter dissapointment when prayer remains unanswered.

Recently we’ve introduced the Matt Redman song ‘Blessed be your name’ into our worship services:

Blessed Be Your Name
by Matt Redman

---

Blessed Be Your Name
In the land that is plentiful
Where Your streams of abundance flow
Blessed be Your name

Blessed Be Your name
When I’m found in the desert place
Though I walk through the wilderness
Blessed Be Your name

Every blessing You pour out
I’ll turn back to praise
When the darkness closes in, Lord
Still I will say

Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your name
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your glorious name

Blessed be Your name
When the sun’s shining down on me
When the world’s ‘all as it should be’
Blessed be Your name

Blessed be Your name
On the road marked with suffering
Though there’s pain in the offering
Blessed be Your name

Every blessing You pour out
I’ll turn back to praise
When the darkness closes in, Lord
Still I will say

Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your name
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your glorious name

Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your name
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your glorious name

You give and take away
You give and take away
My heart will choose to say
Lord, blessed be Your name

 

[convert_2000]

bengeorge:

Well, that doesn’t help my friend much.

And why it should be left up to individual lay people to start their own Bible studies when we have a very wealthy Church and big buildings and people who are getting paid to be the educational leadership…

It’s scandalous.

My priest lives in proverty. How does yours live? He doesn’t drive a fancy car like a great deal of the evangelicals do. Aren’t we all called to evangelize? Our Bible study is led by a lay person and we pay for our materials, our choice. Our buildings are for the Lord, not for us. The Church’s wealth doesn’t go to the religious, it goes to the people. What is scandalous is that many feel like they need to be entertained by their church instead of going to worship. The Mass is not a party, it’s an opportunity with the Lord.

 

[convert_2000]

Jesus never promised to keep us entertained. And, in fact, I am leaving my liberal, Frank Sinatra homilies parish for a much more boring parish because the former seems more interested in making everybody “feel good” about themselves. They have a DRE who specifically said as she was going through RCIA that “the Catholic Church will never get a former Baptist to believe in the real presence.” Well, she was wrong. I am living proof of that.

If going to mass to receive Jesus Christ into your own body is boring, then may I be bored to tears!
[/quote]

I replied to this forum before reading down. Very well said, my sentiment.

 

[rjs1]

AquinasXVI:

bengeorge:

Lastly, we need to obliterate the idea that worship=entertainment. That’s so offensive to the Lord. When we go to worship we need to give of our entire being not just to take take take. Should the homily or music somehow entertain us, that’s a bonus but not the foundation.

in XT.

The whole point of our Catholic worship is just that - WORSHIP!. We are at mass to worship the God of the Universe, to fall in homage before Him and gratefully receive His loving gift of His Body in Holy Communion.
One of the great travesties of the modern Protestants is this utterly humanistic idea that we go to Church to be entertained. What arrogance! What human pride!
The Mass is meant to be an image of Heaven. Read the Book of Revelation and its description of the angels and saints before the altar in Heaven - it is almost a description of a Catholic High Mass, with the incense, the Agnus Dei, the altar etc. Just as an added bonus, a devoutfully celebrated High Mass is the most “entertaining” event you can be present at! But that is NOT its purpose.

We must get back to the Biblical and ancient understanding of worship. The understanding that has been transmitted by the Catholic Church in the 2000 years since. The modern Protestants have got it so wrong. In spite of their words, they have made their pastor and his performance the whole focus of their Sunday worship - just look at any of the tele-evangelists.
Look up the definition of worship in the dictionary.

As for the other points made by bengeorge - yes it is true that many Catholic parishes don’t offer other activities for their parishoners. That is an issue that a more spiritually alive laity must come to deal with. We need solid Catholic Bible studies and prayer groups. But don’t forget that Catholics lead the pro-life cause and are very active in that. Many Catholics take part in charitable work with societies like St Vincent de Paul. As for the “poor” homilies, they will improve as the standard of our priests’ training improves. Hopefully the “liberal” seminaries will soon die out and be replaced by truly Catholic seminaries.