Almost Saved

[CopticChristian]

I doubt it is meant as a swipe at Catholics, though they certainly do get caught up in the net it casts.

Within Protestantism you tend to have two different beliefs, the one is that Salvation happens at a specific exegent moment where the individual becomes “born again”. The other belief tends to align with Catholicism, that there is a process to it all. It is the other Protestants who hold this belief, who are otherwise much like them, that they are targeting with the comment.

You mean Calvinism and Armenianism?

 

[CopticChristian]

There are a lot of Catholic billboards in our city!

There’s a really cute one that has a picture of a middle-aged woman with a mischievous smile, and a word balloon with the question, “What have you done for your marriage today?” The “smaller print” on the billboard names “Catholic _______” (the name of a marriage organization within the Catholic diocese). It’s a great outreach for the Catholic Church, and a great reminder to everyone, Catholic or not, to nurture their marriage.

And there are pro-life billboards in our city with the word “Catholic” in the copy.

During the Catholics Returning Home campaign, there were billboards up all over that went along with the great television commercials.

And I’m guessing that some parish, organization (K of C?), and/or individuals will probably put up a billboard welcoming our new bishop and wishing our old bishop Godspeed. I would chip in for that!

The Catholic schools have billboards up. The one that I notice is the billboard promoting the traditional Catholic school (the children attend the Latin Mass, Latin is taught, Rosary prayed daily, etc.–a great school with excellent credentials and very good students).

Our large parish has one of those digital signs in the front lawn–we are on one of the busiest corners in the city, and tens of thousands of cars pass every day. The sign usually has some witty saying, or a Bible verse, or an admonition on it, some kind of “Thought for the Day” that I’m sure many non-Catholics enjoy reading. A lot of times, there are cute little graphics on the sign, too.

And our Bishop has a 30-second television spot every weekday with a “Thought for the Day” that is absolutely wonderful. I have evangelical Protestant friends who tell me that they really enjoy the Bishop’s pithy comments on this TV spot.

There are also radio spots, especially for the schools.

I don’t consider any of this “undignified.” It’s a sensible way to spread the Good News. Jesus used the methods that worked best to reach out to people. Why shouldn’t modern-day Christians emulate Him?

This is interesting. Billboards are not marquees. The marquee of the movie theatre is different than paid advertising. The marquee is owned by the establishment to put up whatever they wish. The Billboard is usually owned by a separate entity that offers the space to others for a fee. This would be akin to the painted advertisments on bus stops.

It is interesting how from marquee we are now at billboards.

 

[CopticChristian]

Yes I am with you. The old school teaching.

Things like why would St Paul tell the Philippians to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. Why would he tell the Romans who have been grafted into the Olive Tree (which we know is Christ) showing that they WERE saved, but that they will be cut off from the olive tree just like the unbelieving Jews were if they do not continue in kindness. Why would he say this if it were not true.

But most important I am with you on, Only God knows and will judge us.

Paul said it the best. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by You, or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me!!

So if you had a marquee that said…

“Work out your salvation with fear and trembling”…

that would be advertising your ecclesial community with the truth…and probably would be considered good advice and no one would come to figure out what you had to offer at your particular church.

“Almost saved is like being totally lost”

raises questions that can only be answered through pondering, phoning the church or attending the church…

The reason for the marquee is not to put out information that is true but rather to cause one to question and investigate…

It is not like the movie theatres of old that just put out the next movie to be seen…

 

[CopticChristian]

CopticChristian—

While I’m not sure what they meant by “Almost saved is like being totally lost”, my guess would be that they are trying to speak to people who, for want of a better term, could be thought of as religious procrastinators…IOW, people who are mildly interested in seeking God but distracted or entangled in other “worldly” things to the extent that they keep putting off seeking Him.

How God will judge us is His business, so I wouldn’t really say I believe “Almost saved is like being totally lost”, whatever is meant by it.

I doubt the billboard is meaning to pass judgment on genuinely perplexed but searching people…I don’t know, but I really doubt that’s the intent.

And I highly doubt that it’s meant as some sort of anti-Catholic swipe.

I muse how the discussion has engaged the notion of billboard with marquee. They are totally different. You exhibit what I believe the marquee message was supposed to do. You registered it pondered, did not agree with it and probably would pass this marquee and not consider investigation at this church. You know you only have to bat .333 and be considered a good hitter. You only have to close 30% of your deals to be considered a good salesman. I anticipate that for every 10 that drive by and ponder some percentage close to that that come and inquire accomplish the goal.

 

[CopticChristian]

Aesthetically, billboards and commercials aren’t things I’m attracted to. But, some other people find them thought-provoking and helpful, so I see no no need to look down on their use.

This reminds me of the game where one person whispers to the next something until it comes back around and the message changes…

marquee
billboard
painted bus stops
car wraps

all different

The OP started with marquee…

 

[CopticChristian]

Having grown up evangelical, I’d say I doubt it’s a swipe at Catholicism. Rather it comes down to the way evangelicals conceptualize salvation. Remember to them there is really no closer or farther away - someone who dies without “accepting Christ”, no matter how close they were to doing so or how sincerely seeking the truth, is damned. So there’s a real urgency to get people to convert, because what happens if you decide to go home and think about it and get hit by a car and die? There’s no hope held out for the non-Christian.

This is fascinatin in so far as you are involved in the belief of your paradigm. I do not know the answer however I do not believe that dying on your death bed and whispering “I accept Christ” accomplishes anything, in my opinion. I understand since this is your background that you believe that it does. I suppose in consideration of this posting that driving by the marquee someone may be distracted as they read it and hit someone…if they are severely injured then is it a good thing that they are outside a Protestant church as they are hit or would it be the same as being hit outside a Walmart?

 

[CopticChristian]

DarkLight—

Some Evangelical are inclusivist, some are exclusivist. The term “Evangelical” covers a broad group.

The idea that “someone who dies without ‘accepting Christ’, no matter how close they were to doing so or how sincerely seeking the truth, is damned” seems more like something I’d hear from a hard-core Fundamentalist.

In consideration that Christians are called by the Master "that they may all be one’ and that as professed members of the Church this disparate thinking and belief makes me wonder about the mystery hidden for all ages through which the manifold wisdom of God is known, ie the Church…are we not all getting the same wisdom…how can there be such disparity?

 

[CopticChristian]

Point taken. My upbringing was from proud and openly admitted fundamentalists. But this “almost saved” talk is what I heard all the time, so I suspect it’s out of the same motivation.

This is interesting because the marquee was outside a Wesleyan Methodist church. Has Fundamentalism crept into this ecclesial body?

 

[CopticChristian]

I’m not a big fan of seeing billboards everywhere you go, but I would much rather see a billboard that’s promoting Christian living than some of the others for Planned Parenthood, and other advertisements for booze or whatever else that promotes sinful pass-times and activities.

I do love our thought processes…

Marquee, Marquee

Billboards, Planned Parenthood, booze, fascinating.

 

[DarkLight]

This is fascinatin in so far as you are involved in the belief of your paradigm. I do not know the answer however I do not believe that dying on your death bed and whispering “I accept Christ” accomplishes anything, in my opinion. I understand since this is your background that you believe that it does. I suppose in consideration of this posting that driving by the marquee someone may be distracted as they read it and hit someone…if they are severely injured then is it a good thing that they are outside a Protestant church as they are hit or would it be the same as being hit outside a Walmart?

Hey hey hey, didn’t say I was still evangelical! If anything, I’m an agnostic with interest in Catholicism. But I’ve been exposed to the thinking and studied this particular type of theology. The more intelligent ones will take one of a few routes in response to your scenario:

(1) God will not allow anyone to die without having been exposed to His truth. So the person who is hit outside of Walmart and dies has already been given a chance to accept or reject Christ, and chose to reject Him.

(2) Molonism. God knows who will and won’t reject Him given the chance - so no one dies without accepting Him that would have done so given the chance.

(3) Appeal to some sort of “free gift” concept. In this case the answer would just be “yes” - but since salvation is a free gift and not something we earn, then God is not unjust in saving only the one person.

 

[CopticChristian]

Hey hey hey, didn’t say I was still evangelical! If anything, I’m an agnostic with interest in Catholicism. But I’ve been exposed to the thinking and studied this particular type of theology. The more intelligent ones will take one of a few routes in response to your scenario:

(1) God will not allow anyone to die without having been exposed to His truth. So the person who is hit outside of Walmart and dies has already been given a chance to accept or reject Christ, and chose to reject Him.

(2) Molonism. God knows who will and won’t reject Him given the chance - so no one dies without accepting Him that would have done so given the chance.

(3) Appeal to some sort of “free gift” concept. In this case the answer would just be “yes” - but since salvation is a free gift and not something we earn, then God is not unjust in saving only the one person.

So, are you talking about Baptism of desire here?

 

[ltwin]

This is interesting because the marquee was outside a Wesleyan Methodist church. Has Fundamentalism crept into this ecclesial body?

At first I would not have been exactly sure what the message behind “Almost saved is like being totally lost.” However, since you said its a Wesleyan Methodist Church it can’t be talking about once saved always saved since Wesleyans are Arminians.

My guess would be that its speaking to the importance of being a committed Christian and earnest seeker after God, in contrast to those who are not concerned with their own salvation.

 

[CopticChristian]

At first I would not have been exactly sure what the message behind “Almost saved is like being totally lost.” However, since you said its a Wesleyan Methodist Church it can’t be talking about once saved always saved since Wesleyans are Arminians.

My guess would be that its speaking to the importance of being a committed Christian and earnest seeker after God, in contrast to those who are not concerned with their own salvation.

This is interesting. There are postings elsewhere that say many of the denominational churches have been infiltrated by Evangelicals of differing stripes so there is no way to know what this particular church believes and teaches absent going in and asking. In your case the marquee plus the notion that this church is Wesleyan caused you to put 2+2 together however without knowing what they teach and believe all we can do is say 2+?=

 

[DarkLight]

So, are you talking about Baptism of desire here?

No - in fact they’d explicitly reject that concept. Molonism has to do with the idea that God not only knows what you actually do and will do in the future, but what you would do in any given hypothetical situation. So if there is a hypothetical situation where the person would accept God, God makes sure that the situation actually happens and they do accept God.

 

[ltwin]

This is interesting. There are postings elsewhere that say many of the denominational churches have been infiltrated by Evangelicals of differing stripes so there is no way to know what this particular church believes and teaches absent going in and asking. In your case the marquee plus the notion that this church is Wesleyan caused you to put 2+2 together however without knowing what they teach and believe all we can do is say 2+?=

Well not knowing this church, nothing I say can be 100% accurate. Like you said, I’m just using what information I have.

Being an Arminian myself and having been influenced by the Wesleyan tradition, I know that many of us use “saved” and “salvation” terminology as shorthand for the entire Christian experience. Being “saved” means being a Christian. It doesn’t mean there is not a possibility that you might fall away or that you never have to confess and repent of sins again. It simply means that you have had a conversion experience and are working your salvation out with fear and trembling. So with that definiton of “saved” in mind I deduce from the billboard slogan that its talking about being a serious, committed, and devout Christian in contrast to being someone who is lax or lukewarm toward their faith.

 

[CopticChristian]

No - in fact they’d explicitly reject that concept. Molonism has to do with the idea that God not only knows what you actually do and will do in the future, but what you would do in any given hypothetical situation. So if there is a hypothetical situation where the person would accept God, God makes sure that the situation actually happens and they do accept God.

Well, whether they accept or reject the concept or not…it is what it is…I don’t know how God views this insofar as I accept the teachings of the OHCAC, the mystery hidden for all ages through which the manifold wisdom of God is known. With that in mind whether they believe or accept the concept it would boil down to Baptism of Desire as a label of what they do whether they believe it, accept it or not.

 

[CopticChristian]

Well not knowing this church, nothing I say can be 100% accurate. Like you said, I’m just using what information I have.

Being an Arminian myself and having been influenced by the Wesleyan tradition, I know that many of us use “saved” and “salvation” terminology as shorthand for the entire Christian experience. Being “saved” means being a Christian. It doesn’t mean there is not a possibility that you might fall away or that you never have to confess and repent of sins again. It simply means that you have had a conversion experience and are working your salvation out with fear and trembling. So with that definiton of “saved” in mind I deduce from the **billboard slogan **that its talking about being a serious, committed, and devout Christian in contrast to being someone who is lax or lukewarm toward their faith.

Marquee, not billboard.

 

[Telstar]

So here I am driving down the street and I drive by this Protestant ecclesial community church and there on the billboard, yes a billboard, why don’t Catholic Christians start putting up billboards?

I recall the days when I was young driving by our local movie theatre with the marquee you could see the feature of the day…War of the Worlds, no not Tom Cruise, the original…actually my aunt worked at the local theatre, but that was then and this is now…what happened to those days…

anyway so I am driving down the street and there on the church marquee…kinda sounds ominous, the church marquee…there it says this…

“Almost saved is like being Totally lost”

Some thoughts.

Almost Saved?

How does someone think up the notion of "Almost Saved’ and then put it on a marquee?

I got saved, well I am almost saved…nah I thought you were saved…no I am almost saved…well what’s holding you up…dunno…sometimes I feel saved and sometimes I don’t then when I do I wonder if I am and then of course…

Almost saved. What’s up with that?

This is interesting. Billboards are not marquees. The marquee of the movie theatre is different than paid advertising. The marquee is owned by the establishment to put up whatever they wish. The Billboard is usually owned by a separate entity that offers the space to others for a fee. This would be akin to the painted advertisments on bus stops.

It is interesting how from marquee we are now at billboards.

You started in the OP by saying it was a billboard (and repeated it for added emphasis), then switched it to being a marquee. Apparently, some folks were a bit confused between the two, so the subject of billboards didn’t seem to be off-topic. Make up my mind!

 

[JustaServant]

We live near what passes for a mega-church in our WV hamlet. They have their own billboard normally announcing events,special services or sermon topics. Most churches around here can’t afford their own personal billboard.
Off topic:
One time, about seven years ago I looked up at their billboard and saw Donna Douglas from the Beverly Hillbillies staring down at me (The billboard is right by a gas station). She was coming to the church to do an inspirational seminar of some sort. Being originally from Pennsylvania, I asked a friend of mine “I thought people in West Virginia were insulted at being called hillbillies”. “Oh no”, he said, “we wear it as a badge of honor”.

 

[CopticChristian]

You started in the OP by saying it was a billboard (and repeated it for added emphasis), then switched it to being a marquee. Apparently, some folks were a bit confused between the two, so the subject of billboards didn’t seem to be off-topic. Make up my mind!

well, golly, I did use billboard, thank you…I was thinking marquee and wrote billboard. Forgive me for I am human.