Almost there but the Ark confuses me

[patrick457]

The Ark was always a pilgrimage site and, I further suggest, after it was covered, had a lot of the underworld-type mystery religion bogwash connected with it. I also suggest it was the basis of the fabled Augean Stable that Hercules cleaned out; a necessary task in re-establishing agriculture in a world scrubbed of humus.

Well, in an unrelated note, Herakles kills Augeas in the end because the latter refused to honor the agreement to pay Herakles one-tenth of his cattle should he succeed in cleaning the stable in a single day.

The Ark landed on the side of the mountain, and was coated with tar/resin and KPR mistranslated as “gopher” with “wood” emended: actually volcanic ash, kephra/tephra. The light volcanic ash (like that at Santorini) coating the Ark would have given the gleaming appearance of an egg, and I agree with Fasold this likely is the Egg of Life of Middle Eastern popular symbolism as held in the hand of the Creator, a motif one can see on white meerschaum stone pipes, for example.

Actually the consonants say גפר gpr. There is a suggestion which connects gopher with kopher ‘pitch’, but connecting Hebrew gopher with the linguistically-unrelated Greek tephra ‘ash’ (cognates include Latin foveo, Avestan dažaiti and Sanskrit dahati - ultimately most likely derived from Proto-Indo-European **dʰegʷh-*) is just…

 

[edwest2]

Good Afternoon/Morning (Depending on what time it is while you’re reading this)

For two years I have been debating Catholicism. I have come to believe that there is more to the world than we see and I agree with virtually everything in the bible and the traditions of the Catholic Church. There is one thing that has always bugged me though, and it probably will seem foolish, but it is about Noah’s Ark.

Some say it is meant to be figurative; yet how can it be figurative if Noah was sent the details of the boat? I can’t see how two, or seven, of every animal could possibly make every animal fit inside the ark? Did God make it larger on the inside or something? I know it would be within his power but is it possible the Ark didn’t cover the whole world? Maybe only Israel for example?

If it was in Israel could the animals fir?

This is a common question. I was taught in my Catholic religion class in the 1960s that Noah was a real person and the Ark was a literal construction. God is not telling us a parable when he gives its dimensions and other details about its construction. Scale models have been built and it was completely seaworthy. Jesus referred to the days of Noe (Noah).

The CIA has published an image referred to as “Ararat anomaly.”

Peace,
Ed

 

[losh14]

Considering that there are no human genes for 2 noses, etc., it does not surprise me that we do not see that.

Fair enough. Save for divine intervention, if the entire human race were reduced to solely those on the Ark, we’d expect to see inbreeding. But again this is missing the spiritual truth.

However, according to Genesis, human life was initially very long, then goes off a cliff post-Flood. Might that be genetic-decline related?

ICXC NIKA

Interesting thought, though the increase in life spans up until Methusaleh would have to have another explanation - it’s not improving genetic quality.

One theory is that years were measured inconsistently or in a way that do not represent our present understanding. The long life-spans were prior to a time when accurate record-keeping of the lunar phases was important (presumably it did not matter until the festivals were instated).

It could also be that the ages are not years so much as symbols, either of numerology or to indicate holiness or Divine Favor.

One theory I heard in college is worth noting - that prior the Flood, the skies were filled with water, kept separate from the water of the seas. This created high pressure which allowed greatly lengthened lives for all creatures (something observed in laboratories, or so I was told). With the Floods, the pressure was lost, so life spans decreased. Although, one would expect life spans to immediately drop and stay at the same level, rather than gradually decline as Scripture shows.

Again, with God nothing is impossible.

 

[Crumpy]

The Church disagrees with you. They make no such pronunciation on the story’s history or scientific probability. As with all things, they are centered on the theology.

Christ also disagrees with you, as he speaks of it in Matthew 24:37-39. Why would God lie? That is not to say that Noah may not be a parable, but if God speaks of Noah as a real person, isn’t that a matter to consider?

See this Ask an Apologist question and answer on the Flood, teachings from the Catechism on the lessons from the Flood,

good choice of words.

I’m reading a discussion of Jewish commentaries, and how some Jewish exegetes dealt with the issues of historical criticism of events in the Bible, like Noah’s flood. This person asserted that the events of the Bible occurred, but that the Bible accounts are parables based on those events.

 

[fred_conty]

Jack says it was a real literal story.
Jill says it was an allegory story.
Pail says that whether literal or allegorical, it is a story to illustrate a truth important enough to tell and learn.

Just a thought.

 

[GEddie]

Fair enough. Save for divine intervention, if the entire human race were reduced to solely those on the Ark, we’d expect to see inbreeding. But again this is missing the spiritual truth.

Interesting thought, though the increase in life spans up until Methusaleh would have to have another explanation - it’s not improving genetic quality.

One theory is that years were measured inconsistently or in a way that do not represent our present understanding. The long life-spans were prior to a time when accurate record-keeping of the lunar phases was important (presumably it did not matter until the festivals were instated).

It could also be that the ages are not years so much as symbols, either of numerology or to indicate holiness or Divine Favor.

One theory I heard in college is worth noting - that prior the Flood, the skies were filled with water, kept separate from the water of the seas. This created high pressure which allowed greatly lengthened lives for all creatures (something observed in laboratories, or so I was told). With the Floods, the pressure was lost, so life spans decreased. Although, one would expect life spans to immediately drop and stay at the same level, rather than gradually decline as Scripture shows.

Again, with God nothing is impossible.

Although Methuselah lived longer than Adam, there was no steady increase of life between them, and so there was nothing to be explained.

IMS, after Adam’s 930 years, you have a 912, an 895 and several low-900s and high 800s for life length. I.e., there was variation all over the place, as one would expect in natural human life. The difference from Adam to Methuselah is only 2.3 percent.

Conversely, the life length falls steeply and steadily after the flood.

I have no problem believing that “year” means “year” in Scripture. Sure, they had no calendars yet, but they were a down-to-nature culture. They knew the earth’s cycles better than we did. They might not have counted days accurately, but they knew a month from a year.

If the long lives were figurative, why the steady slide in life length after the flood?

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

ISTM also that if the long lives are to be taken as 1/10 or 1/12 of face value (“confusing months for years”), then you would have nine and ten - year -olds fathering children.

ICXC NIKA

 

[PJM]

Good Afternoon/Morning (Depending on what time it is while you’re reading this)

For two years I have been debating Catholicism. I have come to believe that there is more to the world than we see and I agree with virtually everything in the bible and the traditions of the Catholic Church. There is one thing that has always bugged me though, and it probably will seem foolish, but it is about Noah’s Ark.

Some say it is meant to be figurative; yet how can it be figurative if Noah was sent the details of the boat? I can’t see how two, or seven, of every animal could possibly make every animal fit inside the ark? Did God make it larger on the inside or something? I know it would be within his power but is it possible the Ark didn’t cover the whole world? Maybe only Israel for example?

If it was in Israel could the animals fir?

You may wish to check out this infor. Click on “N” and then “Noa’s Ark”

newadvent.org/cathen/01720a.htm