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pianistclare
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I believe there is a Catholic version of this…any in a previous thread a couple of months ago have had good things to say about it.
Use the search function.
Use the search function.
Before you start an Alpha program, you must have a group of people who will run it to go for training first. That would be a time to know what it entails, and the whys of it. Based on hearsay will not help much to discuss about this subject and it can be futile.Our pastor is starting a discipleship program called Alpha in our parish. Does anyone know anything about this? My understanding is it’s not Catholic-based, but other than that and looking at their website, don’t know much about it. Has anyone had experience running this program in their parish or going through it?
Is this still not the case, Deacon? Does Alpha now include a Catholic understanding of the Sacraments, Scripture, the Virgin Mary, the Mass, Mortal sin and so on?The lectures and videos that are read or presented to Catholics are written by an Evangelical Protestant who rejects the notion of the Catholic Church being instituted by Christ, rejects a Catholic understanding of the sacraments, rejects a Catholic understanding of the Scripture, never breathes a word about the Queen of Heaven, the Blessed Sacrament, the hierarchy of the Church, the devotional life, sanctifying grace, actual grace, the need for sacramental confession, the Sacrifice of the Mass, mortal sin — we could go on and on, but you get the idea.
Even though the original founder may not agree with the Catholic understanding of Sacraments, Scripture, Mary, etc, Alpha for Catholics does not teach anything that would contradict or even put to doubt the Catholic understanding. It does not, from my understanding, go through these teachings in great detail, but focuses more on the very basics of the Catholic faith- “knowing that ‘Jesus Christ loves you; he gave his life to save you, and now he is living at your side to enlighten, strengthen and free you’”, sharing it with others, and transforming the parish.Thanks for the info. But I am reading that “Alpha for Catholics” still does not appear to be Catholic, but rather a protestant program tweaked to look more Catholic. But, according to this:
Is this still not the case, Deacon? Does Alpha now include a Catholic understanding of the Sacraments, Scripture, the Virgin Mary, the Mass, Mortal sin and so on?
The churchmilitant website appears pretty much focuses on Marian spirituality. It is not surprising that it objects to any program that does not focus on this spirituality.Thanks for the info. But I am reading that “Alpha for Catholics” still does not appear to be Catholic, but rather a protestant program tweaked to look more Catholic. But, according to this:
Is this still not the case, Deacon? Does Alpha now include a Catholic understanding of the Sacraments, Scripture, the Virgin Mary, the Mass, Mortal sin and so on?
I can’t speak for Mr. Voris, but if I understand him correctly and if I understand the focus of the course correctly, which coincides with what you stated, the issue at hand is not merely that it was started by a protestant, but that it is a rather superficial course that focuses more on the emotional aspect of Jesus’ love instead than a proper, Catholic understanding of what he did for us and the Church he founded.Michael Voris objects to Alpha because it was founded by a Protestant. But even Protestants can get many things right- we are still all Christians. And it is important to remember, this is Alpha for Catholics, so it has been specifically modified so that nothing would go against the Catholic faith.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that as well (it actually includes the above quote too):About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they’re just one thing, and we shouldn’t complicate the matter.
But when you don’t teach about that union from the get-go and about the role of the saints and Mary, that leaves a lot to be desired. While you can’t dump all of Catholic doctrine on new or prospective Catholics all at once, I believe that it is essential to give them a proper thumbnail sketch or summary of the most important doctrine and beliefs of our faith. I don’t believe that Alpha does that. A lot of things that the Catholic church recognizes as essential are simply not so for protestants. The Eucharist is a glaring, glaring example.Christ and his Church thus together make up the “whole Christ” (Christus totus). the Church is one with Christ. the saints are acutely aware of this unity…
Although surely there should be an emphasis on Mary in any truly Catholic program, I think one of the big problems with Alpha is that it is rather emotions-based and doctrine-light. And while emotions are also important, it is knowledge of Christ and his Church that really brings somebody in and keeps them in the Church.The churchmilitant website appears pretty much focuses on Marian spirituality. It is not surprising that it objects to any program that does not focus on this spirituality.
Michael Voris’ comment on Alpha for Catholic is missing the program’s objective which is an evangelization tool to introduce peripheral Catholics to come back to the Church.
More importantly would be the courses or modules after the introductory Alpha for Catholics. These are pure Catholic materials, for example series by Bishop Robert Baron which deal in depth on Catechism, the Bible, Sacraments and the mass.
I wouldn’t take the opinions of many bishops and even the Pope as ringing endorsement these days. Remember these are the people who have not only failed to increase the number of souls in the Church, but have failed even to keep the number of souls we used to have before, even as the human population increases.Still, listening to one critic without balancing the endorsement by the many Catholic Bishops and the Pope on this program for a more balanced review would be insufficient information on what it actually is.
Well said.I wouldn’t take the opinions of many bishops and even the Pope as ringing endorsement these days. Remember these are the people who have not only failed to increase the number of souls in the Church, but have failed even to keep the number of souls we used to have before, even as the human population increases.
The Church has failed to evangelize right for many decades and a protestant-based evangelization program is not the answer. Instead, we should look at those bishops who actually have developed fully Catholic programs and are being successful at bring new people in, unlike most of their peers.
I’m not taking Micheal Voris’ word on this, nor am I balancing it out against any other authority’s word- What he is reporting appears accurate- the program is not truly Catholic. The program’s website does not contradict this. If it covered the Catholic sacraments, for instance, it would probably say so on the site. But it does not seem to- even in its most recent incarnation. I doubt that it COULD cover Catholic doctrine properly, since it is not founded on the wholeness of the Catholic truth, but only on one improperly separated aspect of it.
I understand where I am coming from, I really do. I too would probably have left a long time ago if I had gotten in the Church for emotional reasons- I am Catholic because it is the Church the Christ founded. I love being Catholic, I love the richness of our faith, and definitely agree that all the Church’s teachings on the Sacraments, the saints, Mary, etc are important.I can’t speak for Mr. Voris, but if I understand him correctly and if I understand the focus of the course correctly, which coincides with what you stated, the issue at hand is not merely that it was started by a protestant, but that it is a rather superficial course that focuses more on the emotional aspect of Jesus’ love instead than a proper, Catholic understanding of what he did for us and the Church he founded.
Of course protestants get some things right and I know many who are far more on fire for and faithful to Christ in their limited understanding than many Catholics. But you can’t love someone you don’t know and while protestants view Jesus as apart from the Catholic Church, we correctly view the Catholic Church as Jesus’ body.
… I assure you that if I had gotten in the Church for emotional reasons rather than because of the knowledge that this is truly the Church that Christ founded and that he truly rose from the dead and truly is God then I would have left a long time ago. And most people do. They experience an emotional high and then move on when it becomes a low and they realize that their fellow church-goers aren’t really that great and neither are many of the clergy in the Church, because we’re all in a fallen state.
Alpha program comes in stages.Why not use Fr. Barron’s materials or Fr. Spitzers’ or Catholic Answers’?
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This is a generic Christian program.
I believe that one of our biggest problems is that we keep looking for another gimmick to make it work. Something cool, popular and exciting! Instead, I think we need to stop being cute! Just tell it like it is- The pure unadulterated truth. And people will respond to truth as they always have- some will recoil and blame the “hard sayings” while others will come to the truth like a moth to the light.Generally Catholics are not strong on evangelization. Our strong point being the true Church where we have the Sacraments is our weakness too in this aspect. Often the idea is, authentic product does not need promotion, people will come and look for it to buy it.
…[snip]…
We tried to reach out to the youth thus the inclusion of youth program in the Church, some of which are still running today.
I was just trying to explain what Alpha is. I am sorry if I come across as saying it is the only thing or that the Church salvation depends entirely on it.No, programs like Alpha won’t save us. Can it bring more people into the Church? Maybe.
They do, as I have said, in the follow-up Alpha program. Bishop Baron has some ten or so talk series, say on the Sacrament alone. Besides, we can choose some of the best Catholic speakers who have ample knowledge and materials to feed on the participants.But we need a lot more than this feel-good emotional thing to keep them in the faith, where the truth and the sacraments are at. Let’s hope those extra truly Catholic materials are forthcoming as well. We need Catholics with a real foundation,
I do not see those ‘good feeling’. In fact, on the contrary. Mainly it was sadness and remorse on the realization that they have turned their back on God.… not just good feelings.
I would agree that religious instructions if they are, should not be based on gimmick.I believe that one of our biggest problems is that we keep looking for another gimmick to make it work. Something cool, popular and exciting! Instead, I think we need to stop being cute! Just tell it like it is- The pure unadulterated truth. And people will respond to truth as they always have- some will recoil and blame the “hard sayings” while others will come to the truth like a moth to the light.
I can understand why you say that. I came from a generation, though I am not that old, where hell was taught as early as seven years old. I remember getting traumatized by it, sometimes in nightmares. And the fear of hell was what largely that made me go for Confession and the mass.Instead, we keep dumbing down the doctrines till there’s not much potency there. Particularly, failing to teach the doctrine of Hell properly, or dismissing it as some remote possibility does incredible damage to the faith and the faithful. If Hell’s not a real possibility and everyone gets saved at the end, then what’s all the fuss about! Just live your life like you want- seeking comfort and pleasures above all else and, as long as you don’t kill or rape anyone, you’ll be fine in the end! That’s not the Christian message.
How true. I agree with you totally here. It indeed does happen and it is sad. One really has to look for good clergies and lay people who still preach authentic Catholicism. Thanks God, there are also plenty of them around too.But the bishops and priests have to keep catering to the faithful- most of them dare not huff and puff too much at the pulpit lest the patrons disappear out the door. The desire to preach the truth by those in power in the Church has diminished greatly over the decades and therefore so has its appeal from those thirsty for the genuine article.
No problem. You are saying your heart out. We do have our ways of thinking individually and we may not agree on certain things. It is alright with me.I know I’ll get criticized for having said this, but please be aware that I am not criticizing any particular individual nor am I saying that this is the case for all the clergy.
I agree with you that dumbing our rich and beautiful Catholic faith is not the answer. Emphasizing feel-good emotions won’t either.I believe that one of our biggest problems is that we keep looking for another gimmick to make it work. Something cool, popular and exciting! Instead, I think we need to stop being cute! Just tell it like it is- The pure unadulterated truth. And people will respond to truth as they always have- some will recoil and blame the “hard sayings” while others will come to the truth like a moth to the light.
Instead, we keep dumbing down the doctrines till there’s not much potency there. Particularly, failing to teach the doctrine of Hell properly, or dismissing it as some remote possibility does incredible damage to the faith and the faithful. If Hell’s not a real possibility and everyone gets saved at the end, then what’s all the fuss about! Just live your life like you want- seeking comfort and pleasures above all else and, as long as you don’t kill or rape anyone, you’ll be fine in the end! That’s not the Christian message.
But the bishops and priests have to keep catering to the faithful- most of them dare not huff and puff too much at the pulpit lest the patrons disappear out the door. The desire to preach the truth by those in power in the Church has diminished greatly over the decades and therefore so has its appeal from those thirsty for the genuine article.
I know I’ll get criticized for having said this, but please be aware that I am not criticizing any particular individual nor am I saying that this is the case for all the clergy.
No, programs like Alpha won’t save us. Can it bring more people into the Church? Maybe. But we need a lot more than this feel-good emotional thing to keep them in the faith, where the truth and the sacraments are at. Let’s hope those extra truly Catholic materials are forthcoming as well. We need Catholics with a real foundation, not just good feelings.