Altar Calls-Non-Catholic/Orthodox

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Nicea325 said:
Well can anyone let me know where Scripture teaches:

The Church is accountable to Scripture

I wait eagerly…
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Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
AbideWithMe said:
Spencer, I’d basically agree. Although, I’d say the sacrifice of ourselves is real, though imperfectly done, and not symbolic. It’s real in that it’s really meant by us, and really accepted by God. And, yes, I was going to bring up that it can be similar to the Penitential Act, if that’s the “Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa” part that I’m assuming it is.
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Right. I meant that the altar itself in Evangelical churches is more the symbolic part, rather than the giving over of one’s life. 👍
 
AbideWithMe said:
Spencer, I’d basically agree. Although, I’d say the sacrifice of ourselves is real, though imperfectly done, and not symbolic. It’s real in that it’s really meant by us, and really accepted by God. And, yes, I was going to bring up that it can be similar to the Penitential Act, if that’s the “Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa” part that I’m assuming it is.
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Spencer3096 said:
Right. I meant that the altar itself in Evangelical churches is more the symbolic part, rather than the giving over of one’s life. 👍
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I think its important to note exactly what evangelicals consider symbolic. Sometimes I cringe when I hear the word symbolic tossed around like “the altar call is symbolic” or “Holy Communion is symbolic.” The altar may be symbolic but the laying down of one’s life is not. The elements in Holy Communion may be symbolic, but what we receive from Christ in the Lord’s Supper is not symbolic at all.
 
PRmerger said:
Actually, this is the teaching of the Church. She is, indeed, the servant of Scripture.

"Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God,** but is its servant**. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith. CCC 86"
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Yes, I understand the CC position,but some present a position which appears to place the church as inferior to the Bible. That in itself is false.
 
ltwin said:
I think its important to note exactly what evangelicals consider symbolic. Sometimes I cringe when I hear the word symbolic tossed around like “the altar call is symbolic” or “Holy Communion is symbolic.” The altar may be symbolic but the laying down of one’s life is not. The elements in Holy Communion may be symbolic, but what we receive from Christ in the Lord’s Supper is not symbolic at all.
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Good perspective; thanks for sharing.
 
Remnant1 said:
Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
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Sorry, that verse does not refer to the church being accountable to Scripture. It is referring to relying on necromancy.
 
Nicea325 said:
Sorry, that verse does not refer to the church being accountable to Scripture. It is referring to relying on necromancy.
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Isaiah8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Isaiah is saying that a people should look to their God and not to the dead through familiar spirits in verse 19. In verse 20 He says that they or anyone must talk according to the law (of Moses, the Pentatuch) or the testimony (Prophets, Rev.19:10b). The Law and the Prophets, which is the bible, scripture.
 
Remnant1 said:
Isaiah8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Isaiah is saying that a people should look to their God and not to the dead through familiar spirits in verse 19. In verse 20 He says that they or anyone must talk according to the law (of Moses, the Pentatuch) or the testimony (Prophets, Rev.19:10b). The Law and the Prophets, which is the bible, scripture.
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No, Remnant. That is not how the verse ought to be interpreted. You are simply applying your fallible interpretation of it. As such, it could be erroneous how you read that verse.
 
ltwin said:
I think its important to note exactly what evangelicals consider symbolic. Sometimes I cringe when I hear the word symbolic tossed around like “the altar call is symbolic” or “Holy Communion is symbolic.” The altar may be symbolic but the laying down of one’s life is not. The elements in Holy Communion may be symbolic, but what we receive from Christ in the Lord’s Supper is not symbolic at all.
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This is a good clarification to make. For instance, even though I used to be an Evangelical, I know that I sometimes fail to make that distinction when talking to other Evangelicals about theological matters.
 
Remnant1 said:
Isaiah8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Isaiah is saying that a people should look to their God and not to the dead through familiar spirits in verse 19. In verse 20 He says that they or anyone must talk according to the law (of Moses, the Pentatuch) or the testimony (Prophets, Rev.19:10b). The Law and the Prophets, which is the bible, scripture.
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Reliance yes,but no where is Isaiah teaching:

The church is accountable to scripture.

No where!

BTW: The Jews did not have a fixed canon at the time of Isaiah. So what Bible are you referring to?
 
Nicea325 said:
Reliance yes,but no where is Isaiah teaching:

The church is accountable to scripture.

No where!

BTW: The Jews did not have a fixed canon at the time of Isaiah. So what Bible are you referring to?
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The Jews had the law and the prophets which was scripture. A little more complete in Jesus day.

Acts 13:15
And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Acts 24:14
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Acts 28:23
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Luke4
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

The bible that Jesus read was called the Law and the Prophets and yes God’s church was subject to it because it talked about Jesus.
 
Remnant1 said:
Yes, but you know who they are.
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The point is, Remnant, that there was no authority for the Jews to determine what was inspired and what was not.

As such, there was no agreement among the Jews.

However, thanks to the Catholic Church we can be assured that what God wanted to be inspired, is known throughout Christendom as Sacred Scripture.
Jesus didn’t. He sent them.
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This is absolutely correct. 👍
 
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