Altar Calls-Non-Catholic/Orthodox

[AbideWithMe]

Thanks for posting the explanation from ‘Christianity Today’. My own sense is that ‘Altar Calls’ are actually less practiced today then in the 1800’s. I don’t have a lot of experience but the few times I have worshiped in Presbyterian and Methodist churches they did not provide for this ceremonial opportunity.

Somewhat disconnected to this topic is that the use of altar rails seem to be disappearing among many Christians including Roman Catholics. I am saddened to see them go but understand that the distribution of the Sacrament is fastest when the people line up and go to a station to receive Mass rather than kneel for Communion.

Yay! A post on this topic!

 

[ltwin]

Thanks for posting the explanation from ‘Christianity Today’. My own sense is that ‘Altar Calls’ are actually less practiced today then in the 1800’s.

It depends on what churches you go to. Baptist, Pentecostal, non-denominational churches tend to have them fairly often. It’s more of an “evangelical” phenomenon. Not all Protestants do this.

I don’t have a lot of experience but the few times I have worshiped in Presbyterian and Methodist churches they did not provide for this ceremonial opportunity.

This is difficult to explain without going into the long and sordid history of American Protestantism. Methodists would have done it a lot in the 1800s. No longer today because many Methodists are no longer evangelical. Many of them are theologically liberal Protestants or more “higher church” conservative Protestants. The days of the campgrounds with shrieking Methodist women and Methodist men running to the altars to repent are long in the past.

By the 1900s, most Methodists who still wanted to do that had been forced out of the Methodist Church and had started new denominations, like the Church of the Nazarene or the Wesleyan Church.

Presbyterians are similar, however, they were never as “enthusiastic” or “charismatic” (I’m using this term retroactively) in their worship as Methodists were. Charles Finney, who is mentioned in the article, was a New School Presbyterian though.

There was a Fundamentalist/Modernist controversy in the Presbyterian Church in the 1900s. The Fundamentalists lost and the liberals won. I’m assuming that most of the revivalistic type Presbyterians would have left for Fundamentalist churches afterward.

Somewhat disconnected to this topic is that the use of altar rails seem to be disappearing among many Christians including Roman Catholics. I am saddened to see them go but understand that the distribution of the Sacrament is fastest when the people line up and go to a station to receive Mass rather than kneel for Communion.

It’s not just Catholic churches. Evangelicals seem to prefer to build “big box” churches that look like secular auditoriums or (even worse) warehouses. My new church building doesn’t have altar rails but we still pray at the steps of the platform though.

 

[PRmerger]

I I’m never seen anyone perform acts of devotion to a Bible, so I don’t really know how to even respond to a charge of “bibliolatry.”

This:



looks a lot like what Protestants object to with our Catholic devotions.

What do you say to a person who views this photo and says, “It really, really looks like he’s worshipping that Bible!”

 

[ltwin]

Itwin,

The 39 Articles of Faith are Anglican. However, you say to be Pentecostal. I did not know that Pentecostals held the 39 Articles of Faith.

We don’t. I didn’t cite them because I hold to them. I cited them because they testify to my point: this is what Protestants believe and have always believed.

But for your information, John Wesley was an Anglican and Methodism grew out of his renewal and evangelistic efforts. Therefore, because Pentecostalism is a form of Wesleyanism, one can rightly say that Pentecostals are low church, charismatic Methodists who are themselves low church evangelical Anglicans.

That’s oversimplified, but you get the picture.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Abide,

This sounds like when one of my kids is grounded and they bring a situation from one of their brothers: “How come Billy did this and he didn’t get in trouble?”

Itwin, is one person. A valuable life, if you ask me. However, for one person to pass judgment to 2 Apostolic Churches is just… audacious.

The arguments between the Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church date from centuries and they have a significantly more complicated nature. The Orthodox don’t ignore Christian history in the manner that Itwin just did.

However, if a single Orthodox were to post exactly what Itwin posted, I would call his/her post audacious as well.

You are comparing Apples and Oranges.

LOL, Isaiah, I understand that it may look like a “How come Billy…” situation to you, but I can honestly say it’s not, from my perspective, and knowing my motivation in writing what I did.

Collectively and individually, Orthodox Christians do believe the CC has erred. If one single Orthodox poster said this, as representative of what their church believes collectively, I don’t see that as audacious.

 

[ltwin]

This:

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looks a lot like what Protestants object to with our Catholic devotions.

What do you say to a person who views this photo and says, “It really, really looks like he’s worshipping that Bible!”

He could be worshipping the Bible, who knows. Or he just loves the word of God. I don’t know anything about the photo or the person in the photo. He could be Protestant, Catholic, or Mormon for all I know. I’d need to know more.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

It depends on what churches you go to. Baptist, Pentecostal, non-denominational churches tend to have them fairly often. It’s more of an “evangelical” phenomenon. Not all Protestants do this.

This is difficult to explain without going into the long and sordid history of American Protestantism. Methodists would have done it a lot in the 1800s. No longer today because many Methodists are no longer evangelical. Many of them are theologically liberal Protestants or more “higher church” conservative Protestants. The days of the campgrounds with shrieking Methodist women and Methodist men running to the altars to repent are long in the past.

By the 1900s, most Methodists who still wanted to do that had been forced out of the Methodist Church and had started new denominations, like the Church of the Nazarene or the Wesleyan Church.

Presbyterians are similar, however, they were never as “enthusiastic” or “charismatic” (I’m using this term retroactively) in their worship as Methodists were. Charles Finney, who is mentioned in the article, was a New School Presbyterian though.

There was a Fundamentalist/Modernist controversy in the Presbyterian Church in the 1900s. The Fundamentalists lost and the liberals won. I’m assuming that most of the revivalistic type Presbyterians would have left for Fundamentalist churches afterward.

It’s not just Catholic churches. Evangelicals seem to prefer to build “big box” churches that look like secular auditoriums or (even worse) warehouses. My new church building doesn’t have altar rails but we still pray at the steps of the platform though.

Again, thanks for providing this information. I recall as a kid seeing Billy Graham on TV preaching in football stadiums and wondering if the people are going up to take communion. I liked the music being sung and was impressed with the action of coming forward to Christ almost in a eucharistic way.

Agree that the worship environment for many Christians is becoming less a sanctuary and more an auditorium. In my own parish people receive communion standing in lines rather than use the altar rail. The response from clergy and congregants is that it takes too long to encourage kneeling

 

[AbideWithMe]

This:

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looks a lot like what Protestants object to with our Catholic devotions.

What do you say to a person who views this photo and says, “It really, really looks like he’s worshipping that Bible!”

As long as we’re speculating, my guess would be that he might be in a country where Bibles are not as easy to come by as they are here, and so he might be realizing how precious it is.

 

[ltwin]

Again, thanks for providing this information. I recall as a kid seeing Billy Graham on TV preaching in football stadiums and wondering if the people are going up to take communion. I liked the music being sung and was impressed with the action of coming forward to Christ almost in a eucharistic way.

Agree that the worship environment for many Christians is becoming less a sanctuary and more an auditorium. In my own parish people receive communion standing in lines rather than use the altar rail. The response from clergy and congregants is that it takes too long to encourage kneeling

I would also add that in both Methodist Churches and Presbyterian Churches there has over the years been a movement toward greater focus on the liturgy. Methodist and Presbyterian worship today may not necessarily be the way Methodists and Presbyterians on the frontier in the 17 and 1800s would have worshipped.

Many Presbyterians churches in the Great Awakenings had what they called “sacramental seasons,” which were gatherings where the sacrament would be observed but also revivals would take place. They were four day devotions that climaxed with the Lord’s Supper. These were often occasions where people were visibly and emotionally convicted of their sins and called back to repentance. It’s hard to imagine such scenes taking place among mainline Presbyterians, which are well known as the “Frozen Chosen.”

 

[EvangelCatholic]

This:

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looks a lot like what Protestants object to with our Catholic devotions.

What do you say to a person who views this photo and says, “It really, really looks like he’s worshiping that Bible!”

The photo looks like a devout Christian reverencing the Bible. After the Gospel is read the pastor kisses the Bible and holds it up for all to see; some make the sign of the holy cross when the Bible is elevated. We are not worshiping the book but the Word of God.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

ltwin;I would also add that in both Methodist Churches and Presbyterian Churches there has over the years been a movement toward greater focus on the liturgy. Methodist and Presbyterian worship today may not necessarily be the way Methodists and Presbyterians on the frontier in the 17 and 1800s would have worshiped.

Many Presbyterians churches in the Great Awakenings had what they called “sacramental seasons,” which were gatherings where the sacrament would be observed but also revivals would take place. These were often occasions where people were visibly and emotionally convicted of their sins and called back to repentance. It’s hard to imagine such scenes taking place in modern Presbyterians, which are well known as the "Frozen Chosen."
“Frozen Chosen” are also Lutherans who either look frightened or deadly serious when taking holy Communion. The joy of the forgiveness and everlasting life in the Mass is absent on many an expression!

I have been at a few Lutheran/ Presbyterian services where Holy Communion was celebrated. Presbyterians joined Lutherans in taking Communion in the customary way [host in hand or on the tongue and the chalice by either intinction or drinking from the cup].

Ironically, I have worshiped with charismatic Roman Catholics where singing in tongues occurred; the experience left me in awe.

 

[ltwin]

“Frozen Chosen” are also Lutherans who either look frightened or deadly serious when taking holy Communion. The joy of the forgiveness and everlasting life in the Mass is absent on many an expression!

I’ve never been to a Lutheran service. My southern town has tons of non-denom, Southern Baptist, Pentecostal and perhaps a house church in every neighborhood. We also have the mainstreet Methodist, Episcopalian, and Presbyterian churches. But the nearest Lutheran Church is 30 minutes away.

I have been at a few Lutheran/ Presbyterian services where Holy Communion was celebrated. Presbyterians joined Lutherans in taking Communion in the customary way [host in hand or on the tongue and the chalice by either intinction or drinking from the cup].

I’ve been to two Episcopalian parishes. One was just to go but the first time was for a school project. Most South Carolina Episcopalians are pretty evangelical, so it was nice to talk to liturgical Christians who still spoke my language!

My brother visited our local PC(USA) congregation. He said Presbyterians are really organized and by the book it seemed.

Ironically, I have worshiped with charismatic Roman Catholics where singing in tongues occurred; the experience left me in awe.

I was invited to a charismatic Roman Catholic prayer meeting by a classmate of mine once. But I never found the time to go. Wish I had.

 

[andrewstx]

Although Methodists and Presbyterians may not use the term “altar call”, they do in fact use them.

Methodists even High church Methodists have call to Christian Discipleship, and they often even sing “Just As I Am” during them. I think that is done after every service.

Presbyterians will have an invitation for people to go to the session room to council with the ruling Elders and to join the church ifdesired. You have to be elected by the Elders to become a member.

 

[ltwin]

Although Methodists and Presbyterians may not use the term “altar call”, they do in fact use them.

Methodists even High church Methodists have call to Christian Discipleship, and they often even sing “Just As I Am” during them. I think that is done after every service.

Presbyterians will have an invitation for people to go to the session room to council with the ruling Elders and to join the church ifdesired. You have to be elected by the Elders to become a member.

This blog post is from John Meunier, a Methodist, asking if other Methodists have altar calls: Methodist altar calls. He wrote,

I know there is a spot in the official pattern of worship where you could call for people to come forward, but I’ve never been in a regular Methodist worship service that included one.

I’m curious whether my experience is typical of unusual. Do Methodists issue altar calls?​

He got a lot of responses that were very enlightening.

 

[PRmerger]

He could be worshipping the Bible, who knows. Or he just loves the word of God. I don’t know anything about the photo or the person in the photo.

Egg-zactly, ltwin.

Here’s another example of not applying the paradigm equally to Catholics.

If you saw a picture (here I mean a generic “you” not a personal “you”) of a person kissing a statue, your first response would not be, “Maybe he just loves Mary. I don’t know anything about the photo or the person in the photo.”

Rather, it would be, “This person certainly does appear to be worshipping a statue.”

He could be Protestant, Catholic, or Mormon for all I know. I’d need to know more.

Why is that relevant? If it was a Protestant it would be ok, but if it was a Catholic it wouldn’t?

I don’t understand why you feel it’s important to comment on his potential religious denomination.

Again, I hope you apply your same non-judgemental paradigm to this photo as you did of the man kissing his Bible.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...SSYws7g39728u4oMyC_zlrrnCtZNq4yxT8b0IXj6hs7Bo

 

[PRmerger]

The photo looks like a devout Christian reverencing the Bible. After the Gospel is read the pastor kisses the Bible and holds it up for all to see; some make the sign of the holy cross when the Bible is elevated. We are not worshiping the book but the Word of God.

Right.

But for some reason when you (again, a generic “you”) see a Catholic having a similar posture, it suddenly becomes worship.

 

[PRmerger]

As long as we’re speculating, my guess would be that he might be in a country where Bibles are not as easy to come by as they are here, and so he might be realizing how precious it is.

But you wouldn’t assume that he’s worshipping the Bible, right?

I hope you apply this same judgement to this photo as well.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...vX-H_9nvhOXMmwl5mEA8nkTo_RA-TMFA54dDgPOzgCrvA

 

[PRmerger]

My southern town has tons of non-denom, Southern Baptist, Pentecostal and perhaps a house church in every neighborhood.

This, sadly, is the fruit of the Protestant Reformation. Tens of thousands of Christian denominations, each preaching their own interpretations–and sometimes contrary ones!-- of Scripture

What Jesus prayed for was One Church. Unity. In Truth.

 

[guanophore]

An alter is a structure or place where a sacrifice is performed.

A stage is used for performing.

Catholics make Christ’s sacrifice present to us on an alter, whereas Protestants listen to an inspiring sermon given by a pastor on a stage.

Most modern evangelical structures have replaced the Sacrament not only with the preacher, but an entertainment/musical performance.

http://www.phillaeger.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/20130322-090214.jpg

It is a good image to use when Protestants accuse Catholics of “bowing down before images”. No evangelical will say that these people are “bowing down to” the music ministry or the pastor.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Right.

But for some reason when you (again, a generic “you”) see a Catholic having a similar posture, it suddenly becomes worship.

How does the photo fit into the discussion of altar calls? But since we addressing the photo.

As a Catholic, I am quite accustom to outward expression of faith. Lutherans reverence the altar not because the wood or stone materials are holy but what it represents, the very presence of Christ. To kiss a Bible seems totally appropriate to me.