Altar girls, jeans, and Crocs

[Lycoming]

I was once ignorant about the liturgical law of the Church, and now I’m not. Without trying to sound over-important or victim-ish, once you’re not ignorant about something, it can be an awful burden to bear. I know, for example, that pouring the Precious Blood is something you should not do, so when I see it, I get upset: why should I, a regular lay Catholic, know more about the liturgical law of the Church than some ordained man? I’m sure in some cases abuses happen by accident (rather than by ignorance), but my reaction is the same. And then I wonder, should I say something about this, or will I be treated like some rubrical snob who wants things his way, and ignored?

It can indeed be a burden to know something about the liturgy. Sometimes it manifests as anger when something goes wrong. Other times it manifests by extending what the Church actually instructs to what one personally believes is “best.”

It’s wrong to pour the Precious Blood. It’s also wrong to get angry about it during the Mass. Read Hahn’s comments. He gives insight as to why it would be wrong to get angry during the Mass.

That (and/or closing my eyes) is often what I do to prevent my mind from continuing to dwell on some distraction I see. I try to “offer it up,” but I also ask immediately for forgiveness for myself for being so quick to react internally at something that might be beyond the person’s control.

I look down often. It’s not an optimal technique but it works.

 

[Lycoming]

The TLM can contain abuses, you are correct. And I agree with your analysis that it is people who abuse, not any particular form of the Mass. However, the complexity and forumlarity of the TLM lends itself to not be abused. The priests offering the TLM today have made a conscious decision to adhere to a form of the Mass that is hard to do, so why would they do it incorrectly on purpose?

I don’t think that’s true at all…

The EF is celebrated on a tiny scale for people who are largely vocal about “liturgical abuses.” That’s often why they attend. I would say that is by far the biggest reason there are fewer abuses at the average EF Mass.

 

[zab]

There is so much going on in this thread - wow.

First of all, I have to ask - why are you in church if you are distracted by what the server is wearing. The focus should be on worship and the Eucharist - not what people are wearing. I took a non Catholic to mass last night and he told me he was uncomfortable - not because he was not familiar with the responses and such, but because others were staring at him because he was not doing them. I was greatly embarrassed. We should be focused on God at mass, not each other.

Secondly - this is not an “abuse”. Call it irreverent, rude, etc - but it is not an abuse.

Thirdly - Do you know the family? Are they able to afford the fancy clothes you think they should be wearing?

Fourth - As a former youth minister and current high school teacher, I am often very glad youth are in church and really dont care what they are wearing as long as it covers what it should be covering. Getting them there and engaged is far more important. I just had this conversation with a colleague on Wednesday. As a man in my mid thirties - I often wear dress pants and a polo for work and occasionally a button down shirt. On days we have mass at school I wear a tie because the students are required to do the same. A fellow teacher who is in his 60’s wears a tie every day and adds a sports coat on mass days. We were talking about how it is generational. He mentioned his father would wear a suit every Sunday for church. So, there are three generations - suit - tie and coat - tie. The younger generation just does not dress up - working with them I know this and I am glad they are in church.

And lastly - please do not write anything to the pastor anonymously. Like another poster said, if you feel it is important then put your name to it. When I worked in parish work - anonymous letters were trashed.

I agree with some of what you have said-

“focus should be on worship and on the Eucharist” and “this is not an “abuse”. Call it irreverent, rude, etc - but it is not an abuse.”

And certainly it is good to see youth in church regardless if they are wearing jeans and pink aligator shoes. But sometimes I think that the pastor or whoever is in charge of the altar servers do not have enough faith in the youth to give them a dress code. I think they would be surprised to know that the kids would obey it.

 

[jay29]

I went back to the Divine Liturgy in an Eastern Rite Catholic Parish because I got sick and tired of seeing altar girls and those that wear white sneakers to Mass.

 

[PJM]

Today was Good Friday. As everyone went up to venerate the cross (a plain, empty cross) two altar girls were to the sides. As I went up to kiss the cross, I noticed once again distracting fact that the girls, underneath their albs (which were too short, only about knee-length) they were wearing jeans and pink and lime green Croc shoes. Throughout the service, I found I couldn’t concentrate due to that.

What’s worse, is, last Sunday (Passion Sunday) they did the same thing. They never wear anything formal, you can always see their jeans and shoes and sometimes athletic pants.

Sigh. It’s super-distracting, and, even worse, tomorrow is Easter Vigil, when we join the Church. If they wear that get-up again… well, I just can’t stand it.

Does anyone know of any way I can kindly inform someone about how distracting this is to the Mass, and actually effect change?

Sorry if this seems like such a minor issue, but I find it unbelievingly distracting.

Any thoughts?

Find out who selects and trains the servers (that it self is an issue with me personally) and arrance to have a converstaion with them, even if its your pastor.

Be xtra KIND and explain your concerns. Stressing NOT your distraction! but the extreme honor these young folks have, related to SERVING THEIR GOD. Should we not make a greater attempt to give proper respect to OUR GOD?

After all "They represent" in a real way, the parish community that they serve. Reasonable standards for Altar Servers should not be seen as unreasonable.

If that does not work, and it continues to effect your persoanl worship, you might seek a different parish, if that is a valid option?

Love and prayers,

 

[WhollyRoamin]

I don’t think that’s true at all…

The EF is celebrated on a tiny scale for people who are largely vocal about “liturgical abuses.” That’s often why they attend. I would say that is by far the biggest reason there are fewer abuses at the average EF Mass.

I think that you may have a point for why people often begin to investigate the TLM. But I don’t think that it’s just people fleeing goofy Novus Ordo Masses! In my experience of going to the TLM, it is people who are looking for more in their spiritual life than dippy sing alongs and banal liturgies-- it is people who are looking to connect to mystery and to a more fulfilling worship directed to the Almighty Lord… rather than directed to the other sinners in the pews.

But that’s just my humble opinion.

I originally wanted to learn about the TLM for purely “archeological” reasons, as in “what did the old Mass look like?” Then I stuck around for cultural reasons, as in “what drives people to drive an hour to hear Mass in a language they don’t understand when the priest faces the wrong direction”? But what kept me going was the theological reasons, as in finding a sense of God-driven worship and serious glorification of Him.

I’m not saying that those things can’t exist in the Ordinary parishes. But TLM goers don’t ever deal with what color crocs the altar girls are wearing. Could it happen? I guess so. But in reality (of which, I am apparently out of touch), those things don’t happen.

 

[Lycoming]

I think that you may have a point for why people often begin to investigate the TLM. But I don’t think that it’s just people fleeing goofy Novus Ordo Masses! In my experience of going to the TLM, it is people who are looking for more in their spiritual life than dippy sing alongs and banal liturgies-- it is people who are looking to connect to mystery and to a more fulfilling worship directed to the Almighty Lord… rather than directed to the other sinners in the pews.

But that’s just my humble opinion.

It’s the Ordinary Form of the Mass not the “norvus ordo mass.” People telegraph something very negative when they lead with that…

I don’t think people are “fleeing” the Ordinary Form of the Mass. You are suggesting they are but you certainly haven’t offered any proof. My personal experience (here locally through my own eyes) is that most people I see at the EF Mass are fairly intolerant, fairly shallow and overly focused on externals.

I originally wanted to learn about the TLM for purely “archeological” reasons, as in “what did the old Mass look like?” Then I stuck around for cultural reasons, as in “what drives people to drive an hour to hear Mass in a language they don’t understand when the priest faces the wrong direction”? But what kept me going was the theological reasons, as in finding a sense of God-driven worship and serious glorification of Him.

I attend the EF at least monthly. It’s part of my spirituality. One thing I ardently avoid is coffee/donuts afterward. The people I have chatted with there express no joy. They are fixated in the most hateful ways over the “NO parishes” nearer their homes. Some there say the OF Mass is “invalid.” Others claim it’s “inferior.” They like to talk about the “organic” development of the Mass. Gossip is rampant. It’s a bad environment.

I’m not saying that those things can’t exist in the Ordinary parishes. But TLM goers don’t ever deal with what color crocs the altar girls are wearing. Could it happen? I guess so. But in reality (of which, I am apparently out of touch), those things don’t happen.

But at least locally they deal with women getting nasty looks if they don’t have a cloth on their heads; men getting nasty looks if the aren’t wearing one of those ubiquitous cheap suits; the weird/strained/puffed-up “holier-than-thou” postures some of them adopt, etc.

I’m getting ready to go to an EF Mass right now. It’s Easter Sunday so there will be coffee and doughnuts afterward. I’m trying to figure out a way to quietly leave at the end of Mass without stopping in the parish hall while not offending others…

 

[catharina]

Today was Good Friday. As everyone went up to venerate the cross (a plain, empty cross) two altar girls were to the sides. As I went up to kiss the cross, I noticed once again distracting fact that the girls, underneath their albs (which were too short, only about knee-length) they were wearing jeans and pink and lime green Croc shoes. Throughout the service, I found I couldn’t concentrate due to that.

What’s worse, is, last Sunday (Passion Sunday) they did the same thing. They never wear anything formal, you can always see their jeans and shoes and sometimes athletic pants.

Sigh. It’s super-distracting, and, even worse, tomorrow is Easter Vigil, when we join the Church. If they wear that get-up again… well, I just can’t stand it.

Does anyone know of any way I can kindly inform someone about how distracting this is to the Mass, and actually effect change?

Sorry if this seems like such a minor issue, but I find it unbelievingly distracting.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts? I deplore the basis of this thread.

One does not join the Church to become a member of the fashion police.
I am very sorry that you face distractions in your prayer.
Such distractions are not unusual.
Nonetheless, the responsibility for defeating distractions is yours alone.

I suggest that you pray fervently that you NOT be distracted by a judgmental spirit.
In being judgmental, one loses the humility that’s always necessary for true worship.

 

[KathleenElsie]

It is not a minor issue. But I don’t think there’s anything that we can do to affect change except for to call the parish and say that you want to be taken off the parish rolls (and to quit sending your contribution envelopes), because you’re going to switch to a Tridentine parish who shows proper respect for serving at the altar of the Lord.

It’s a very sad call to make. But I don’t know of any other way.

This is where my family and I are at. Although we are looking into switching to the Byzantine Catholic Rite. 75% of our church contributions now goes to the small Byzantine Catholic Church we attend. It is not our home parish yet as this must be a family decision, there are seven of us.

Between EMs that don’t respect the choice to receive on the tung (they do it yet let you know they are not happy to do so) and altar servers that dress like they are going to a baseball game or beach, it becomes harder every week to worship without the destructions.

Yet we are active in our parish, music ministry, the boys are altar servers, we decorate and serve when we are needed. So a decision to leave is not an easy one. Although it has become a bit easier since our only priest feminines the readings and refuses to say the Creed as written. We pray for the parish, yet, want to be where we can worship without the constant distractions and changes. Worship should not seem to be a battle of cultures, secular and religious.

 

[Matariel]

Matariel, the suggestion that you get involved in the altar server group at the parish sounds like a good idea. I would suggest that if you do, ask the Priest what his thoughts are on a dress code if any should be enacted, that way you don’t enact a policy that the Priest won’t support.

My prayers are with you.

Yes. That’s exactly what I’m going to volunteer for, an altar server training programme, since I’m a former acolyte for the Anglican church I used to be a part of before I reconciled to the Church. I really see that I just shouldn’t sit back and complain instead of actually doing something about it. Maybe I can whip these kids into shape.

I really see now that I shouldn’t have made such a big deal. I’ll jsut do my best to fix it and continue to go to Mass and receive Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.

At any rate, at Easter Vigil yesterday, it was just… breathtaking. the Church was like a sullen, emty tomb as we processed in there with our blessed candles, and the priest chanted “The Light of Christ” and then, all the sudden the Church filled with light, and it was covere-- absolutely covered-- in lily flowers, candles, and white drapery. It was beautiful. But most of all, we all got confirmed, and then took First Holy Communion!

Anyway, this problem’s resolved, and I’m going to take the time to maybe train the altar servers, so it’s good for both groups.

Happy Easter everyone!

 

[jmcrae]

and you are coming across badly. I was explaining why anonymous letters are a bad bad idea, as others have also agreed with me here. No need to take it to extremes or twist the meaning.

Write a letter with your name on it. Or talk to him personally. or take a suggestion from the others here.

As a new person in the parish, you are actually the perfect person to go up to the priest and kindly say, “I think I am experiencing a certain amount of culture shock with this new experience of being Catholic. I was astonished to see the children wearing beach-style shoes when they were holding the cross and candles at the Good Friday liturgy. I was not expecting such a low standard of dress. Is this very common?”

 

[jmcrae]

Okay. I’ll just sit back and be completely uninvolved in this parish, and not contribute anything.

There is no need to get all dramatic.

As a new person in the parish, you are actually the perfect person to go up to the priest and kindly say, “I think I am experiencing a certain amount of culture shock with this new experience of being Catholic. I was astonished to see the children wearing beach-style shoes when they were holding the cross and candles at the Good Friday liturgy. I was not expecting such a low standard of dress. Is this very common?”

I see no need for shyness, or for anonymous letters.

 

[catharina]

Yes. That’s exactly what I’m going to volunteer for, an altar server training programme, since I’m a former acolyte for the Anglican church I used to be a part of before I reconciled to the Church. I really see that I just shouldn’t sit back and complain instead of actually doing something about it. Maybe I can whip these kids into shape.

I really see now that I shouldn’t have made such a big deal. I’ll jsut do my best to fix it and continue to go to Mass and receive Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.

At any rate, at Easter Vigil yesterday, it was just… breathtaking. the Church was like a sullen, emty tomb as we processed in there with our blessed candles, and the priest chanted “The Light of Christ” and then, all the sudden the Church filled with light, and it was covere-- absolutely covered-- in lily flowers, candles, and white drapery. It was beautiful. But most of all, we all got confirmed, and then took First Holy Communion!

Anyway, this problem’s resolved, and I’m going to take the time to maybe train the altar servers, so it’s good for both groups.

Happy Easter everyone!

Congratulations and welcome on your entry into Holy Mother Church.

 

[ac_claire]

Matarial,

Please ignore the attitude of some posters on this thread, it’d be best particularly if your ignore the misapplication of the “judge not lest ye be judged” command. You’re not being judgemental and your concerns are valid. Just don’t take some of the things being said here personally.

(Seems it’s people who behave/react inappropriately who most frequently throw out the “don’t judge!” cry…for some reason they are really, really worried about being judged wrong! ) In threads like this, accusing someone of being judgemental is a form of character attack that some people throw out so they can avoid addressing your actual concern.

Anyhow, my advice to you is to offer up your current distraction and dis-ease, as some have already mentioned. Close your eyes and pray when you see it. About the crocs, jeans and too-short albs, I think you’re perfectly justified in mentioning this to the pastor or writing a brief, nicely worded letter or e-mail to him after the Easter Triduum.

 

[catharina]

(Seems it’s people who behave/react inappropriately who most frequently throw out the “don’t judge!” cry…for some reason they are really, really worried about being judged wrong! ) In threads like this, accusing someone of being judgemental is a form of character attack that some people throw out so they can avoid addressing your actual concern.

My goodness, how very ‘judgmental’ of you.
Are you certain you want to say that?

As for the actual issue presented, all of us have to fight against distractions at Mass.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes. there are always distractions.

In my case, I am plagued by a mighty regiment of gum-chewers. I am so tempted to rush up to them,offer them a tissue for their gum, and say, “I guess you must have forgotten about the Communion Fast!”

 

[ac_claire]

My goodness, how very ‘judgmental’ of you.
Are you certain you want to say that?

sigh I rest my case. lol

As for the actual issue presented, all of us have to fight against distractions at Mass.

Yeah we do. I think the best advice the OP has received is to offer it up when it occurs and if it continues to happen, talk to the priest about it. Might just be an issue of the kids needing longer albs.

 

[catharina]

sigh I rest my case. lol

Yeah we do. I think the best advice the OP has received is to offer it up when it occurs and if it continues to happen, talk to the priest about it. Might just be an issue of the kids needing longer albs.

Glad that you can understand it is pointless and counter-intuitive and counterproductive to
object to others seeming to be judgmental by engaging in being judgmental yourself.

Best advice? Probably to learn to fight off any distractions at Mass.

In any event, Happy Easter to you.

 

[ac_claire]

Glad that you can understand it is pointless and counter-intuitive and counterproductive to
object to others seeming to be judgmental by engaging in being judgmental yourself.

Nope that wasn’t my point at all. You can be as judgemental as you want to be. I’m all for making prudent judgements; in fact it’s what we are called to do. There’s a big difference between judging hearts and souls and judging behaviors.

Just so we’re clear, I was objecting to the misapplication of the “judge not” command, which unfortunately happens ***all the time *** on this forum. I was objecting to the OP being labeled judgemental.

Happy Easter to you as well.

 

[japhy]

Best advice? Probably to learn to fight off any distractions at Mass.

I don’t see how the “best advice” can exclude taking steps to help alleviate the CAUSE of the distractions.