ALTAR GIRLS POLL---what do you think of them???

[Catholic2003]

Agomemnon:

Its IS a big “T” Tradition for only men and boys in the sanctuary (or presbyterium). This has been maintained by both East and West for 2000 years.

Minerva is correct. Male-only altar servers cannot be part of Sacred Tradition, because not even the Pope has the authority to change Sacred Tradition.

Dei Verbum says:

1. Sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture form one sacred deposit of the word of God, committed to the Church. Holding fast to this deposit the entire holy people united with their shepherds remain always steadfast in the teaching of the Apostles, in the common life, in the breaking of the bread and in prayers (see Acts 2, 42, Greek text), so that holding to, practicing and professing the heritage of the faith, it becomes on the part of the bishops and faithful a single common effort.

Male-only priestly ordination is part of Sacred Tradition. Male-only altar servers is a Church discipline, as is the celebate priesthood in the Latin Rite.

 

[LilyOfTheFather]

Speaking as a female here, I ticked the last option. The place of a woman is not to be up there with the men. It is to be behind the men, praying for them and supporting them. I believe that if Christ had intended women to be priests and thus altar servers, He would have become incarnate as a female. This is however just my opinion. The woman’s role has always been the supportive one, and if we do not live out that role to our best potential, then things collapse.

 

[Iohannes]

Acolytes can only be men and are the main altar servers, therefore in absence of acolytes men or boys should fill their roles. Would it make sense to have a women fill a role of an acolyte when and acolyte can only be male?

 

[Podo2004]

Iohannes:

Acolytes can only be men and are the main altar servers, therefore in absence of acolytes men or boys should fill their roles. Would it make sense to have a women fill a role of an acolyte when and acolyte can only be male?/QUOTE

that’s not true! Girls can be acolytes! Where the hell did you find that out? There are girl acolytes at my parish! It does make sense for a woman to fill the role of an acolyte! Altar servers: doesn’t make a difference if you’re male or female. Altar Servers serve God and he doesn’t really care whether they are Male or Female!

Podo The Hobbit

 

[Iohannes]

Podo2004:

Iohannes:

Acolytes can only be men and are the main altar servers, therefore in absence of acolytes men or boys should fill their roles. Would it make sense to have a women fill a role of an acolyte when and acolyte can only be male?

Podo The Hobbit,

You are completely wrong, Acolytes can only be male since they are a minor order. Are the women you mentioned on the way to the priesthood? Do you even know what an Acolyte is? Do some research or else you will only embarrass yourself.

 

[davy39]

Well, here’s another thread that was discussed and buried a few weeks ago. The fact remains, our bishop in the Toledo diocese has given permission for girls to serve at Mass. I think most of them are mature enough to know that they can never be priests. I really don’t think we have any radical feminest movement going on in our parish. We have about half in half boys and girls serving. I think there would be more boys, but I believe they JUST DON’'T WANT TO. God knows, we have enough trouble getting younger people to even attend Mass at all. Take a look at the next Mass you attend. If you would take away all the baby boomers and the senior citizens, there would hardly anybody there! Our church is sadly lacking in youthfullness. I believe the church has a lot bigger problems to worry about than a nine or ten year old girl wanting to serve Mass. God bless them for wanting to.

 

[rfk]

Meggie:

Its also silly to argue in the case of vocation increse becasue in a big parish a boy or girl might serve once a month. With increslingly short Masses I do not believe this is a significant ammout of time to change any vocation inclined behavior.

That isn’t true. When I was an altar boy (in a 2,000 family parish), I might have served two Sunday Masses a month, but I also served many daily masses. Why don’t you spend 6-10 hours a month serving Masses and then try to tell me it doesn’t have an impact on vocations to the priesthood. I can think of many times as a fifth grader kneeling there and watching Father, wondering if that was something I would ever be called to do.

davy39:

I think there would be more boys, but I believe they JUST DON’'T WANT TO.

The “just don’t want to” is also related to the presence of girls.

My boys are 9 and 11. They are both devout and reverent. In fact, I just have this gut sense that the younger will grow up to be a priest.

Neither one of them want to be an altar server. They see predominantly girls up there and they are still of the age that they want nothing to do with girls. They want to hang out with their buddies. If it was all guys, they’d be clamoring to be part of the group of guys that get to help Father.

Anyone who tries to say that girl servers have no effect on the willingness of boys to be altar servers is being politically correct past the point of accepting realilty.

Believe me, it isn’t me planting these ideas in their head, that is just the nature of boys. And it isn’t just pre-adolescent boys either. Long after I was interesting in girls, I still wanted to do “guy stuff” with the other guys. Actually, I am almost 50 years old and there are still times I like to spend with other guys doing guy things.

 

[Podo2004]

Iohannes:

Podo The Hobbit,

You are completely wrong, Acolytes can only be male since they are a minor order. Are the women you mentioned on the way to the priesthood? Do you even know what an Acolyte is? Do some research or else you will only embarrass yourself.

you don’t seem to know anything! I know what an acolyte is! My own cousin (female) is one. You are the one embarrassing yourself! Prove that only male servers can be acolytes…

 

[davy39]

rfk:

That isn’t true. When I was an altar boy (in a 2,000 family parish), I might have served two Sunday Masses a month, but I also served many daily masses. Why don’t you spend 6-10 hours a month serving Masses and then try to tell me it doesn’t have an impact on vocations to the priesthood. I can think of many times as a fifth grader kneeling there and watching Father, wondering if that was something I would ever be called to do.

The “just don’t want to” is also related to the presence of girls.

My boys are 9 and 11. They are both devout and reverent. In fact, I just have this gut sense that the younger will grow up to be a priest.

Neither one of them want to be an altar server. They see predominantly girls up there and they are still of the age that they want nothing to do with girls. They want to hang out with their buddies. If it was all guys, they’d be clamoring to be part of the group of guys that get to help Father.

Anyone who tries to say that girl servers have no effect on the willingness of boys to be altar servers is being politically correct past the point of accepting realilty.

Believe me, it isn’t me planting these ideas in their head, that is just the nature of boys. And it isn’t just pre-adolescent boys either. Long after I was interesting in girls, I still wanted to do “guy stuff” with the other guys. Actually, I am almost 50 years old and there are still times I like to spend with other guys doing guy things.

I will give that point that boys of that age sometimes prefer not to be around girls. In our parish, an effort is made to keep them separate,(two boys or two girls) as much as possible. And if you knew me, I am probably the most un-politically correct person in town. I think a lot of our problems in the church is a direct reaction to the parents and the day and age we live in. To blame the priest shortage on girl altar servers is just plain silly, in my opinion. I am 65 years old, and I really wonder what will happen in our church in the next 10 years or so. It really scared me sometimes. I’m getting off the subject, but thank you for caring enough about our church to reply. We will agree to disagree, and God bless you. Pray for vocations

 

[Catholic_Eagle]

Podo2004:

Iohannes:

Acolytes can only be men and are the main altar servers, therefore in absence of acolytes men or boys should fill their roles. Would it make sense to have a women fill a role of an acolyte when and acolyte can only be male?

that’s not true! Girls can be acolytes! Where the hell did you find that out? There are girl acolytes at my parish! It does make sense for a woman to fill the role of an acolyte! Altar servers: doesn’t make a difference if you’re male or female. Altar Servers serve God and he doesn’t really care whether they are Male or Female!

Podo The Hobbit
Maybe that’s why in Quebec there is no one at NO Masses under 40?

 

[coeyannie]

Male-only priestly ordination is part of Sacred Tradition. Male-only altar servers is a Church discipline, as is the celebate priesthood in the Latin Rite.

I believe that Ordination to the Priesthood is a “doctrine” of the church. Doctrine cannot be changed. It is also Sacred Tradition. I believe Tradition and Dogma can be changed. Celibacy is a discipline and can be changed also.

I also find girl altar servers annoying. So, in order not to be annoyed, I drive 16 miles to go to a church where they have altar boys, and lots of 'em, a communion rail that is used daily, no extra-ordinary ministers (the priests distribute Holy Communion, and isn’t it funny that they always have a load of visiting priests), no hand holding and reaching to the sky during the Our Father, no handshake of peace, which eliminates shaking hands with someone who has just picked their nose. In other words, I attend Mass and I leave there feeling like I have participated in something heavenly. They even have a Norvus Ordo latin high Mass every Sunday. Something for everyone. I have been going to some “orthodox” churches for Sunday Mass, and I find myself so annoyed that it isn’t worth it. I am hoping that some of these more orthodox priests will put a stop to some of the nonsense.

Dominus Vobiscum.

 

[Iohannes]

Podo2004:

you don’t seem to know anything! I know what an acolyte is! My own cousin (female) is one. You are the one embarrassing yourself! Prove that only male servers can be acolytes…

Now I have to embarass you.

Since you do not know what an acolyte is I will tell you. It is the step before the deaconate and a minor order.

Only men are allowed to be “ordained” to a minor order, therefore a women cannot be an acolyte.

An acolyte in the medieval times before there were seminaries were men training for the priesthood.

newadvent.org/cathen/10332b.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/01106a.htm

 

[Jacksquat89]

:ehh: Now im trying to get this straight. are you talking about all of the servers when you are refering to acolytes? or just the acolytes?

Iohannes:

Now I have to embarass you.

Since you do not know what an acolyte is I will tell you. It is the step before the deaconate and a minor order.

Only men are allowed to be “ordained” to a minor order, therefore a women cannot be an acolyte.

An acolyte in the medieval times before there were seminaries were men training for the priesthood.

newadvent.org/cathen/10332b.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/01106a.htm

 

[Iohannes]

:ehh: Now im trying to get this straight. are you talking about all of the servers when you are refering to acolytes? or just the acolytes?

I am only talking about Acolytes, not altar servers. But altar servers fills in the role of an acolyte during Mass, and it would make sense to have men serve instead of women.

 

[Podo2004]

Iohannes:

I am only talking about Acolytes, not altar servers.

acolytes are altar servers! geez…

DEFINTION OF AN ACOLYTE

1. 
   *]One who assists the celebrant in the performance of liturgical rites, including carrying the lights and water and wine.
   *]A devoted follower or attendant.
   
   Means it they could be female… HA!
   
   Podo The Hobbit

 

[Iohannes]

Podo2004:

acolytes are altar servers! geez…

DEFINTION OF AN ACOLYTE

1. 
   *]One who assists the celebrant in the performance of liturgical rites, including carrying the lights and water and wine.
   *]A devoted follower or attendant.
   
   Means it they could be female… HA!
   
   Podo The Hobbit

1. 
   You do not even know what you are talking about.
   

   An acolyte is a cleric promoted to the fourth and highest minor order in the Latin Church, ranking next to a subdeacon.

   or in modern times a deacon.
   

   In the ordination of an acolyte the bishop presents him with a candle, extinguished, and an empty cruet, using appropriate words expressive of these duties

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

The poll originally was about altar servers.

Servers used to be male only, until in recent years, disobedient priests and bishops permitted girls.

Then, the Holy Father acquiessed and permitted girls to serve if there was a shortage of boys and the bishop consented.

There is a ministry called acolyte which used to be a step toward ordination. It is still ~ and always be ~ all male.

There is no such thing as a female acolyte. Those who say such things are confused between the role of a server and an acolyte. They are not the same thing.

Pax Christi. <><

 

[Podo2004]

Iohannes:

You do not even know what you are talking about.

or in modern times a deacon.

you don’t seem to know what ur talking about… i still think girls can be acolytes i presented proof! I even have servers in my parish(acolytes) that are girls! My priest approves of it! And he’s studied alot in various areas. Girls can be acolytes! I assure you! God accepts that girls serve today and is happy with it! The only people who have a problem with it are the morons today.

 

[deogratias]

The Church need Nuns as well as Priests

Please tell me how serving on the altar makes a girl aspire to be a nun. Problem I see is they want to be priests.

 

[Iohannes]

Podo2004:

you don’t seem to know what ur talking about… i still think girls can be acolytes i presented proof! I even have servers in my parish(acolytes) that are girls! My priest approves of it! And he’s studied alot in various areas. Girls can be acolytes! I assure you! God accepts that girls serve today and is happy with it! The only people who have a problem with it are the morons today.

Did the bishop ordain the girls?, if he did somebody better remove him.