Altar girls, pro and con?

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swnunley:
Good question. This is a papal document instructing the bishops how Mass should go down. I don’t see there being any wiggle room on this. I just don’t know.

In my research so far, this document references Liturgicae Instaurationes, which says the same thing; that women are not to be altar servers. As an “idiot check” my wife asked does “women” include female children? My initial thought on that would be that it did, but…

I emailed my pastor on this. He’s usually orthodox in most matters, so what he has to say will be interesting.
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Let me know what he says. I suppose I need to do the same thing in my parish, but given how liberal it is I’ll bet this won’t get a warm reception–more likely a deaf ear.
 
Aurelio said:
🙂 Howdy!

Two dioceses very far apart, those of Lincoln Nebraska and of San Luis, Argentina, have supposedly “frowned on” using altar girls at mass, while others haven’t.

One arguement we heard a while back from a female relative had this interesting slant:

In many small, rural parishes acrorss Ameica, there is little or no parish infrastructure for such things as catechetical instruction, etc.

So, in effect, while being trained as altar girls, girls are far more likely to be getting at least *some *formal religious instruction, as opposed to none at all!

Frankly, after thinking about it, I believed she had a good point: certainly, even in small, out of the way places, we can see very gratifying examples of girls serving at Mass.

What other factors might there be, pro or con, in female altar servers?

Thanks!

Aurelio 👍
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Con–official church documents prohibit it. What else is there to discuss? It’s funny how us rebellious Catholics think certain issues are up for discussion when Rome has already settled the matter.
 
I don’t think that Altar Girls should be allowed. We got girls by accident in my parish. About ten years ago there was an announcement put in the bulletin seeking new Altar Servers and a girl named “Jamie” signed up and she was called thinking that she was a boy. The priest couldn’t tell her to leave, especially since she was from a very prominent family in the parish.
 
Dr. Bombay:
I’ve been telling people for years that the Church would be much better served if the females would take more interest in vaccuming carpets, dusting pews and laundering altar linens. Nice to see that opinion confirmed. (And they call me a misogynist. HA!)

Besides, and I know I’ve pointed this out before…girls have cooties. I prefer a cootie-free sanctuary, thank you very much.
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:rotfl: How funny you are. The other day I pointed out your message (not the cootie one) but the one about having the girls do the cleaning. I even told them how I wish just one them would do the laundry once a month.
 
  1. I am not an expert in canon law or any of the other ways in which Church practice is governed. However, in the various workshops and classes I’ve taken in the course of my job as an associate for music and parish school music teacher, I’ve come to see that there are often seemingly conflicting instructions on how something is to be done, and it all has to do with what kind of document you’re looking at, and whether it is superceded by any other Church rulings. I have the feeling that the majority of parishes in this country wouldn’t be using altar girls if it were unequivocally prohibited.
  2. I have to respectfully disagree with whoever it was that said when girls become altar servers, the boys clear out. In the last five years, I’ve been involved with five different parishes, and it seems like a pretty even split to me.
  3. I doubt that including girls as altar servers discourages vocations. Just because girls are serving also doesn’t mean that the boys are not experiencing the same things they would were this still an all-male enclave. Based on observation, I think that the priest’s relationship (please, you know what I mean) with the young men in the parish is far more telling on vocation rates than whether or not you’ve got an all-male server population.
  4. Perhaps in the beginning some hoped that opening up the ranks of servers to girls would help pave the way to women’s ordination, but I think if you brought up the subject with most altar girls today they’d just look puzzled.
My parish has both girls and boys as servers, and they all do an excellent job. I think it’s far more important for the priest to make himself present in the parish school, in the youth organizations, in the parish life in general. You’d be surprised at how many priests never spend time in their parish school - and that’s a fantastic place to plant the seeds of vocations.
 
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lacoloratura:
  1. I have to respectfully disagree with whoever it was that said when girls become altar servers, the boys clear out. In the last five years, I’ve been involved with five different parishes, and it seems like a pretty even split to me…
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I have witnessed this myself watching ,any boys including my own. When questioned about their reasons that was the answe they gave. (The girls)
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lacoloratura:
  1. I doubt that including girls as altar servers discourages vocations. Just because girls are serving also doesn’t mean that the boys are not experiencing the same things they would were this still an all-male enclave. Based on observation, I think that the priest’s relationship (please, you know what I mean) with the young men in the parish is far more telling on vocation rates than whether or not you’ve got an all-male server population…
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If I did not see the difference in vocations with parishes that do not have altar girls I would not have made the statement.
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lacoloratura:
My parish has both girls and boys as servers, and they all do an excellent job. I think it’s far more important for the priest to make himself present in the parish school, in the youth organizations, in the parish life in general. You’d be surprised at how many priests never spend time in their parish school - and that’s a fantastic place to plant the seeds of vocations.
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Agreed the children in diocesan schools rally see a priest. Maybe once a week. In the school I work in not a day goes by without the students seeing at least one priest.
 
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lacoloratura:
  1. Perhaps in the beginning some hoped that opening up the ranks of servers to girls would help pave the way to women’s ordination, but I think if you brought up the subject with most altar girls today they’d just look puzzled.
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I think that is closer, much closer, to hitting the nail on the head than the reason…" there were not enough boys, and the girls ‘wanted’ to serve…"
 
Peace be with you!

I thought that JPII had approved of girl altar servers? I think I saw that on some traditionalist site that the schismatics were trying to use against him.

In Christ,
Rand
 
Rand Al'Thor:
Peace be with you!

I thought that JPII had approved of girl altar servers? I think I saw that on some traditionalist site that the schismatics were trying to use against him.

In Christ,
Rand
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From as far back as I can remember (26 years), there have always been altar girls and boys in all the parishes I have been too. And it seems to work out fine. My current parish has a good number of girls and boys serving.

Also, if some boys are having trouble serving because there are girls serving, then that might be a good opportunity to talk to them about learning to get along with women. Chances are that if they end up in secular vocations, they will have to work with women. And no one is going to be tolerant their preference to not work with women. It baffles me that some people seem to want to encourage this attitude.

Kendy
 
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Chris-WA:
Con–official church documents prohibit it. What else is there to discuss? It’s funny how us rebellious Catholics think certain issues are up for discussion when Rome has already settled the matter.
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I don’t think it’s so much as we’re being rebellious, as it is no definitive word from the bishops. It seems sometimes they’re content to let the priests do as they wish, or they themselves bow to pressure from the “progressives”.

If my parish priest were to say “No more altar girls”, I would back him up 100%. I’d even carry around the applicable documents to show them to the complainers. Rome may have said it, but the bishops seem to allow otherwise.
 
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Lynn-D:
I have read it all now. Somehow boys will be shortchanged of religious vocations should girls serve on the altar. May I remind all that the Last Supper, where Jesus shared His body and his blood, was in itself an altar and women were servers at that altar.
Lynn-D
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Well I for one am glad to know that we finally have an eyewitness to the Last Supper to set us straight. 👍 Tell me, did they use chairs, sit on the floor or recline on couches? What color was the wine, white or red, and what did they eat, just the bread or did they also have the lamb?

I’ve wondered about these things for years
 
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palmas85:
Well I for one am glad to know that we finally have an eyewitness to the Last Supper to set us straight. 👍 Tell me, did they use chairs, sit on the floor or recline on couches? What color was the wine, white or red, and what did they eat, just the bread or did they also have the lamb?

I’ve wondered about these things for years
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I really don’t know if you are just being facetious or are asking a hypothetical. May I assume that there was no last supper since I can not prove that took place either except by the statement of witness’.
There is a obvious pattern amongst males who see a woman’s value only in her ability to serve the male in all things but when it comes to serving a priest on the altar celebrating the Mass glorifying God the Father and Son she is unwelcome.
Lynn-D
 
Put me down as pro altar girl. In our parish, it usually ends up about half in half. But I won’t comment, because I did on a previous thread.
 
Dr. Bombay said:
Doc, are you seriously thinking this? 😃 Why, its simply NOT true!
😃 Boys smell, don’t you know that doc? At least that’s what most girls think! 😃
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Kendy:
From as far back as I can remember (26 years), there have always been altar girls and boys in all the parishes I have been too. And it seems to work out fine. My current parish has a good number of girls and boys serving.

Also, if some boys are having trouble serving because there are girls serving, then that might be a good opportunity to talk to them about learning to get along with women. Chances are that if they end up in secular vocations, they will have to work with women. And no one is going to be tolerant their preference to not work with women. It baffles me that some people seem to want to encourage this attitude.

Kendy
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I agree with you wholeheartedly. If i’m not mistaken, I first remember seeing an altar girl in about 1969. All of the churches I have attended since have had them. My sons think it’s just fine that girls are serving. They have no problem with it, but maybe it’s because the atmosphere in our house is of everyone helping out with all jobs and receiving privileges. Boys do dishes, girls take out the trash, etc. My husband is a big advocate of people working together. That doesn’t mean women should be priests, just that up until that time, they need to work together.
 
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Marilena:
Doc, are you seriously thinking this? 😃 Why, its simply NOT true!
😃 Boys smell, don’t you know that doc? At least that’s what most girls think! 😃
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No kidding! Boys have stinky feet 😉
 
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snoopy:
That doesn’t mean women should be priests, just that up until that time, they need to work together.
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Are you suggesting that women can, in fact, some day become priests?
 
lacoloratura said:
1. I am not an expert in canon law or any of the other ways in which Church practice is governed. However, in the various workshops and classes I’ve taken in the course of my job as an associate for music and parish school music teacher, I’ve come to see that there are often seemingly conflicting instructions on how something is to be done, and it all has to do with what kind of document you’re looking at, and whether it is superceded by any other Church rulings. I have the feeling that the majority of parishes in this country wouldn’t be using altar girls if it were unequivocally prohibited.
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I believe you are quite correct. I did some further research and it appears that in 1994 Rome reinterpreted Canon Law to say that female altar servers are allowable. This new interpretation was expressed in a letter from Cardinal Antonio Maria Javierre Ortas, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship, and was later confirmed by Pope John Paul II. See the following link:

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWCOMM.HTM

The letter added several clarifiication points for implementation of this policy:
  1. Each bishop must decide for his own diocese whether or not females will be allowed to serve at the altar, and if he decides yes, that decision is not binding on any other bishop.
  2. The Holy See places an emphasis on males serving as altar servers as the norm since this is often a source of vocations to the priesthood.
  3. If a bishop decides to allow females to be altar servers, he must explain his decision to the faithful in light that the norm remains for males to serve in this capacity.
  4. This is not a right for laypeople, but rather a “temporary deputation” as the bishop deems necessary.
 
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mikew262:
Uh oh, here we go! 😃
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yeah, don’t get me started, cuz I have links to John Paul II’s Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and then Cardinal Ratzinger’s letter concerning women priests at the ready 😃
 
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