Altar girls, pro and con?

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arieh0310:
Are you suggesting that women can, in fact, some day become priests?
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No, hence my comment “That doesn’t mean women should become priests”
 
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Chris-WA:
I believe you are quite correct. I did some further research and it appears that in 1994 Rome reinterpreted Canon Law to say that female altar servers are allowable.
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In 1994, the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts published an authentic interpretation of canon 230 §2. There was no “re”- involved, or even allowed, by this authentic interpretation.
 
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Lynn-D:
There is a obvious pattern amongst males who see a woman’s value only in her ability to serve the male in all things but when it comes to serving a priest on the altar celebrating the Mass glorifying God the Father and Son she is unwelcome.
Lynn-D
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Peace be with you!

No one in here has even suggested that women are supposed to serve men in all things. The point of having altar boys, historically, is to introduce them to vocations in the Church, such as being a priest. Since women cannot become priests, then it would make sense to have only male altar servers. That being said, I don’t necessarily have a big problem with girl altar servers. The problem arises when I see, as many other posters in here, Masses in which there are ONLY girl altar servers.

In Christ,
Rand
 
What if their aren’t any guys?

I first started serving when I was eight (I’m now fifteen), and since then I’ve served with both boys and girls and I have to say the mass always runs much more smoothly when their are girls on the altar. Even so their are less girls than boys (about ten lads to four girls), personally I don’t think it matters: if God calls a man he calls him wherever he is!

Anyway whats the first step when becoming a nun? 🙂 🙂
 
I agree…it needs to stay a “boy activity”.
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baltobetsy:
When girls serve at the altar, it becomes a “girl thing,” and the boys clear out. Boys who would be watching the priest and considering a vocation are no longer interested in serving.

Boys and men are more difficult to catechize because they’re less interested in spiritual things than girls and women (gross generalization, I know, but based on experience). If you take away this “boys only” activity, what will attract them to church?

Betsy
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rkberlin:
Oh my goodness…are you afraid of little girls? 😦 Pretty sad, actually. I’m still waiting for the one Mass here at my parish when I can see the boys serve with reverence the way the girls do! There’s quite a lot of parishoners who are pretty upset about the constant giggling, messing up, shuffling feet and nudging the boys do. Funny how the cootie laden girls just stand there with reverence and do their jobs!

Besides, and I know I’ve pointed this out before…girls have cooties. I prefer a cootie-free sanctuary, thank you very much.
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I guess your anecdotal evidence trumps centuries of Catholic Tradition. My apologies. :tiphat:

And I’m not afraid of little girls. Just their cooties.
 
Aurelio said:
🙂 Howdy!

Two dioceses very far apart, those of Lincoln Nebraska and of San Luis, Argentina, have supposedly “frowned on” using altar girls at mass, while others haven’t.

One arguement we heard a while back from a female relative had this interesting slant:

In many small, rural parishes acrorss Ameica, there is little or no parish infrastructure for such things as catechetical instruction, etc.

So, in effect, while being trained as altar girls, girls are far more likely to be getting at least *some * formal religious instruction, as opposed to none at all!

Frankly, after thinking about it, I believed she had a good point: certainly, even in small, out of the way places, we can see very gratifying examples of girls serving at Mass.

Aurelio 👍
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Hmm… if there’s a problem with catechesis then, it’s really the parents fault. They are the primary teachers of the Faith. They are supposed to pass on the Faith. The Church should help later, but I don’t see how girl alter boys will help in their education. I think the real issue is that having only boys yields more vocations, and this has been proven statistically with those few dioceses that only allow boys.
 
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Chris-WA:
Con–official church documents prohibit it. What else is there to discuss? It’s funny how us rebellious Catholics think certain issues are up for discussion when Rome has already settled the matter.
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Actually Pope John Paul approved the abuse in 1994. Read the document here.
 
I served as an alter boy in the 1970s and at that time in our parish, there were no altergirls. It is important to recognize, that the dynamics between males, and especially between boys and men, are considerably different that those between the sexes. It is my opinion that introducing alter girls into the Church has had the affect of neutralizing an essential element within the Church - the development of the priest-alter boy relationship, a uniquely spiritual dimension of the “father-son” relationship within the Church. It is this component in the alter boy which enhances the spiritual depth of the young male to lead some to consider the priesthood, and others simply to become better (more responsible) men and fathers (another role grossly undermined in society). This component cannot, by this very description, ever apply to girls in the priesthood. I do think that removing the importance of sex distinction of the alter server (boys only) is a step toward eliminating this component in the priesthood as well, and not an unintentional one. It will prove to undermine the true faith in the long term.
 
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Chris-WA:
Let me know what he says. I suppose I need to do the same thing in my parish, but given how liberal it is I’ll bet this won’t get a warm reception–more likely a deaf ear.
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In response to my email, this is what my pastor said:

“I recall the point in 'Inestimabile Donum”. It caused a lot of discussion and back and forth. I mean in high places in the Church. It was resolved (please, don’t make me look up exactly where, but I can do it) that girls would be permitted to serve at the Eucharist. It’s become universal practice - with the bishop and all. So we’re not outside of any norms. If we were, we’d, of course, stop and comply."

UKcatholicGuy’s link to the Congragation for Divine Worship document should pretty much put an end to this thread. I just finished reading it, and it says girl altar servers are permited, and are not contrary to canon law.
 
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UKcatholicGuy:
Actually Pope John Paul approved the abuse in 1994. Read the document here.
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Peace be with you!

If Pope John Paul II approved it, then it isn’t an abuse, is it? Or are you one of those people that think they know better than the pope what is or is not ok for the Church? Note that the letter says:

“If in some diocese, on the basis of Canon 230 #2, the Bishop permits that, for particular reasons, women may also serve at the altar, this decision must be clearly explained to the faithful, in the light of the above-mentioned norm.”

I would say that if the reasons are not explained to the faithful, then there might be something to complain about, but saying that the pope approved an abuse is not something that faithful Catholics should be doing.

In Christ,
Rand
 
The Redemptionis Sacramentum - from the Congregation For Divine Worship And The Discipline Of The Sacrament - issued under the reign of John Paul II states:

“Art [47.] It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension. Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these. Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes. Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.”

Highlights mine.
 
Rand Al'Thor:
Peace be with you!

If Pope John Paul II approved it, then it isn’t an abuse, is it? Or are you one of those people that think they know better than the pope what is or is not ok for the Church? . . . but saying that the pope approved an abuse is not something that faithful Catholics should be doing.

In Christ,
Rand
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I think you assumed too much in my response. I simply meant it was an abuse that the pope ended up approving. This is how Communion in the hand got started. It was an abuse and Pope Paul VI ended up approving it in certain areas. I don’t see a problem with my statement.
 
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Lynn-D:
There is a obvious pattern amongst males who see a woman’s value only in her ability to serve the male in all things but when it comes to serving a priest on the altar celebrating the Mass glorifying God the Father and Son she is unwelcome.
Lynn-D
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First of all, I am not male. I don’t know where you get the idea that it is men that are the only ones opposed to female altar servers. The most vocal opponents I know are female. I take my cues from Church documents and the latest (I believe) to address this issue is Redemptionis Sacramentum - Chapter II.
It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension.[119] Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these.[120] Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes.[121] Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms
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Boys are to be encouraged, associations are to be established for them, and it should be remembered that this is a source of vocations etc. Girls are to be permitted and even then, only if the Bishop wants them. “Permitted” is a much weaker endorsement than “encouraged”.
 
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rkberlin:
Oh my goodness…are you afraid of little girls? 😦 Pretty sad, actually. I’m still waiting for the one Mass here at my parish when I can see the boys serve with reverence the way the girls do! There’s quite a lot of parishoners who are pretty upset about the constant giggling, messing up, shuffling feet and nudging the boys do. Funny how the cootie laden girls just stand there with reverence and do their jobs!

It seems to me that in cases where the altar servers are behaving irreverently, the issue needs to be addressed first by the priest, then by the parents whether that server is a girl or boy! That said, I do not believe that girls should serve on the altar for all the reasons stated previously. Also, someone brought up the point the other day that it may become a disapointment for young girls when they do realize that serving on the altar will not lead to the priesthood. I am female and do not feel that I am inferior because I don’t or can’t serve on the altar. I have a different vocation, simple as that.
Dr Bombay, you crack me up.
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It is all Con’s in my opinion…no Pro’s…everything I have ever been a part of in my life that started off as “all male”, has slowly been chipped away and eroded to break from hundred and even thousands of years of tradition to include women for the sake of political correctness and equality…are not some things in this world not sacred and belong only to men…just like some things in this world belong only to women and I would not even begin to infringe upon that.
 
Was he speaking Ex Cathedra?? THen it very well can be…people believe popes are perfect and can not make any mistakes…I always hear statements like…If it was good enough for JPII, then it is good enough for me…well…I love JPII and He is one of the greatest Popes ever, but that doesn’t mean that I have to agree with him on everything outside of teachings on Faith and Morals such as approving of Female Altar Servers, Liturgical Dancers, and the Charismatic Renewal…If the pope jumped off the bridge, would it be good enough for you too then? Would that be an abuse?
Rand Al'Thor:
If Pope John Paul II approved it, then it isn’t an abuse, is it?
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Dr. Bombay:
I guess your anecdotal evidence trumps centuries of Catholic Tradition. My apologies. :tiphat:

And I’m not afraid of little girls. Just their cooties.
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I’m starting to understand why there is a “Dr. Bombay Fan Club”😃
 
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