Altar girls

[Andreas_Hofer]

Also, as I noted before the Eastern Churches are not bound by canon law they have their own laws of governance. The tridentine liturgy on the other hand is bound by canon law.

As you note disciplines change, however there is no current discipline of which I am aware that would restrict service at the altar in a tridentine Mass to men only. Since the tridentine mass is governed by canon law and since canon law admits the use of female altar servers, it would seem to be perfectly licit today with no change in discipline.

A couple clarifications: of course the Eastern Churches are bound by “canon law,” they just happen to have a different canon law. It’s a little misleading to pretend that the Latin code (which is what we typically mean when we say canon law) is a one to one correspondence with the term. The Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches can just as properly be termed canon law.

Secondly, all this focus on canon law distracts from the possibility (which I don’t have the knowledge to adequately gauge) of regulations contained in the 1962 liturgical books. When you want to know what may be done in the N.O., you can’t content yourself with the CIC, you also have to consult the Roman Missal, its general instruction, and other relevant books. Similarly, the absence of a prohibition against female altar servers in the 1983 CIC does not preclude a prohibition in the actual liturgical books granted under indult.

That said, even without familiarity with the full extent of liturgical sources involved in the indult, I highly doubt this prohibition exists because it would be as stupid and unnecessary as a prohibition against coming to church naked or sleeping during the consecration - girl altar servers were unimaginable at the time so I don’t see why the books would have specified that only males were to be servers.

 

[Brendan]

Yes. The allowance for female altar servers comes from authentic interpretation of the existing canon 230 #2…

Ham,

the current code of Canon Law was promulgated in 1983. Pope John Paul II gave permission for female altar servers in 1994 (specifically in the Circular Letter to the Presidents of Conferences, dated March 15, 1994)

Prior to that, they were illicit, as they were specifically forbidden by Pope John Paul.

Could you explain the discrepency in time?

In addition, the authentic interpretation of Canon 230 -2 specifically states that no priest may be obligated to allow females to serve at a Mass which he celebrates

Here is the appropriate responsum from the CDWDS

In accord with the above cited instructions of the Holy See such an authorization may not, in any way, exclude men or, in particular, boys from service at the altar, nor require that priests of the diocese would make use of female altar servers, since “it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar” (Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conference, March 15, 1994, no. 2). Indeed, the obligation to support groups of altar boys will always remain, not least of all due to the well known assistance that such programs have provided since time immemorial in encouraging future priestly vocations (cf. ibid.)

adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html

So no Latin Rite priest, including those who say the TLM via an indult could be required to have altar girls assist him.

 

[Ham1]

Ham,

the current code of Canon Law was promulgated in 1983. Pope John Paul II gave permission for female altar servers in 1994 (specifically in the Circular Letter to the Presidents of Conferences, dated March 15, 1994)

Prior to that, they were illicit, as they were specifically forbidden by Pope John Paul.

Could you explain the discrepency in time?

In addition, the authentic interpretation of Canon 230 -2 specifically states that no priest may be obligated to allow females to serve at a Mass which he celebrates

Here is the appropriate responsum from the CDWDS

adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html

So no Latin Rite priest, including those who say the TLM via an indult could be required to have altar girls assist him.

You make some good points here.

I don’t dispute that a priest is not obligated to allow girls at the altar. Of course, it follows that a priest saying a TLM would not HAVE to be assisted by female altar servers. I have not ever proposed such a thing. My question was whether it would be licit. I have no agenda here. I am personally a big fan of the tradition of altar boys.

As Andreas Hofer points out other regulations may come into play. It seems that probably altar girls are neither admitted nor prohibited as Andreas aptly points out. I suppose then that the appropriate canon would apply and altar girls would be permissible in either a TLM or novus ordo so long as the bishop has given such permission and the priest himself is accepting of such an arrangement.

As for your question on the discrepency in time…

Remember that the responsum is clarifying what the canon means. It is not an invention or revision of the canon. It is an authentic interpretation stating that yes, the canon in question (issued in 1983) could be interpreted to include girls. Even though the reponsum was given in 1994 it is clarifying that what was written in 1983 can legitimately be held to include girls. So the canon doesn’t begin to mean that in 1994, it always has meant that since it’s origin. It just wasn’t officially clarified until 1994 but the meaning was always there even in 1983.

 

[Brendan]

Remember that the responsum is clarifying what the canon means. It is not an invention or revision of the canon. It is an authentic interpretation stating that yes, the canon in question (issued in 1983) could be interpreted to include girls. Even though the reponsum was given in 1994 it is clarifying that what was written in 1983 can legitimately be held to include girls. So the canon doesn’t begin to mean that in 1994, it always has meant that since it’s origin. It just wasn’t officially clarified until 1994 but the meaning was always there even in 1983.

I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of the responsum. The question being asked was if a priest would be obligated make use of altar girls. The responsum was in the negative and referenced BOTH Canon Law the General Letter of 1994.

Note that it did NOT say that altar girls were allowable PRIOR to the General Letter of 1994, as it could not, because Canon 230 alone does not allow for altar girls, only that they may serve “in accordance with law”. The Universal law prior to the General Letter did not allow for altar girls.

 

[Jakub]

Is it now customary for altar girls to wear high heels ? The last 2 masses I attended (different parishes) they were … in fact one girl had a problem walking in them and almost fell…no wonder some switch to the SSPX…

james

 

[LeahInancsi]

I said it earlier in this thread and I’ll say it again. ** If there were no “altar girls” there wouldn’t be enough altar servers and the priest would have to hold the book himself, etc. etc. He would have no help in preparing Mass.**

Is that better than altar girls?

 

[LeahInancsi]

Is it now customary for altar girls to wear high heels ? The last 2 masses I attended (different parishes) they were … in fact one girl had a problem walking in them and almost fell…no wonder some switch to the SSPX…

james

I don’t think it’s appropriate for altar girls to wear high heels. The next thing you know, the boys will want to wear high heels.

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t think it’s appropriate for altar girls to wear high heels. The next thing you know, the boys will want to wear high heels.

Yes, and heaven knows, we couldn’t have that!!

Seriously - the person in charge of the altar servers should be advising them to wear comfortable but clean shoes.

Most of the problems with “girl altar servers” are actually problems with altar server training in general. I don’t know why nobody picks on boys who misbehave on the altar, yet they can be just as bad as the girls, and sometimes even worse.

 

[LeahInancsi]

On the other hand, I’ve seen too many altar boys with big dirty athletic shoes on under their robes. I don’t think that is any better than the girls wearing heels.

Before I became Catholic, I attended a Catholic funeral on a Monday morning and the altar boy had on these big dirty athlectic shoes. I dismissed it because I assumed they grabbed a kid out of the parish school and there wasn’t time (because of the weekend) to alert the altar boy to wear nice shoes. Little did I know big dirty athlectic shoes are the usual fare.

 

[Jakub]

What it really adds up to is a lack of discipline and reverence…whom ever is responsible for their training and the altar servers themselves…stop making excuses for their lack of…

james

 

[introibo]

Let me begin by saying that I am a senior in college, and discerning a vocation to the priesthood. I believe and uphold all that the Catholic Church teaches and holds to be true, but most of the people on this forum would consider me a liberal.

A potential vocation inspired by the “spirit of Vatican II”?

Yes. And it is precisely because of that spirit that I am even considering priesthood. Altar girls were a terrific step forward in raising dignitatis mulieribus in the Church. Of course, women cannot be ordained to the priesthood- but why prevent them from serving in a legitimately-approved ministry? Many of the girls with whom I had the privilege of serving at the altar were more reverent and respectful of their special responsibilities than the boys were- indeed, a personal inspiration to me.

And, if I may, as someone who might be leading a parish in a decade or so… it hurts to see such divisions over something that, at the end of the day, makes no difference in the saving of souls. And that’s what we’re all here for… right? As one Joseph Ratzinger’s episcopal motto read, let us all be “co-workers in the vineyard of the Lord…” let’s work together for the salvation of all!

 

[gelsbern]

I am saddened that no-one has truly mentioned the original intent of the indult for use of females serving at an altar. It came about from requests to allow women in situations where there were no men or boys and by that I mean, women’s prisons, all girls schools, mental hospitals etc where there are no males around or the males and females are kept separate at all times. Unfortunately, it was give an inch by the Vatican and the U.S. bishops took a mile. Altar girls are supposed to be Extraordinary, not Ordinary, just as the E in EMHC means that it’s not supposed to be a regular practice. Unfortunately, it seems that the definition of Extraordinary has been watered down along with other things by American bishops.

 

[MrS]

I am saddened that no-one has truly mentioned the original intent of the indult for use of females serving at an altar. It came about from requests to allow women in situations where there were no men or boys and by that I mean, women’s prisons, all girls schools, mental hospitals etc where there are no males around or the males and females are kept separate at all times. Unfortunately, it was give an inch by the Vatican and the U.S. bishops took a mile. Altar girls are supposed to be Extraordinary, not Ordinary, just as the E in EMHC means that it’s not supposed to be a regular practice. Unfortunately, it seems that the definition of Extraordinary has been watered down along with other things by American bishops.

not so… the practice started as an unapproved abuse!

The indult was (IMHO) a bad decision that hoped to avert antagonizing the “active-participation” crowd that was being encouraged to take over leadership by the silence of priests and bishops who would not (take over leadeship).

.

 

[Cristiano]

Is it now customary for altar girls to wear high heels ? The last 2 masses I attended (different parishes) they were … in fact one girl had a problem walking in them and almost fell…no wonder some switch to the SSPX…

james

On the other hand, I’ve seen too many altar boys with big dirty athletic shoes on under their robes. I don’t think that is any better than the girls wearing heels.

Before I became Catholic, I attended a Catholic funeral on a Monday morning and the altar boy had on these big dirty athlectic shoes. I dismissed it because I assumed they grabbed a kid out of the parish school and there wasn’t time (because of the weekend) to alert the altar boy to wear nice shoes. Little did I know big dirty athlectic shoes are the usual fare.

The problem is with the people and not with the indult. These two examples are a clear proof of it. My parish as a rule of mandatory black socks and shoes, and they have a few extra pairs available. Once my son was picked from the pew and summoned to serve and he was wearing athletic shoes. After the first moment of panic he remembered of the extra pairs in the sacristy and he served with black shoes.

Please donate some black shoes and socks for both boys and girls to your parish. They do not need to be expensive, they will be worn for a maximum of 90 minutes at the time and only in rare occasions.

 

[tman07]

I am a 15 year old male alterserver and I seve with a girl a bit younger than me and an 18 year old girl but the rest of them are boys and there are about 15 of us. Some people arnt coming forward because there like they think they will get bullied about it its never been a problem with me because I am in a high social circle at school and I try to make it ok but its hard. Is anyone on this forum an Alterserver ???

 

[LeahInancsi]

Let me begin by saying that I am a senior in college, and discerning a vocation to the priesthood. I believe and uphold all that the Catholic Church teaches and holds to be true, but most of the people on this forum would consider me a liberal.

A potential vocation inspired by the “spirit of Vatican II”?

Yes. And it is precisely because of that spirit that I am even considering priesthood. Altar girls were a terrific step forward in raising dignitatis mulieribus in the Church. Of course, women cannot be ordained to the priesthood- but why prevent them from serving in a legitimately-approved ministry? Many of the girls with whom I had the privilege of serving at the altar were more reverent and respectful of their special responsibilities than the boys were- indeed, a personal inspiration to me.

And, if I may, as someone who might be leading a parish in a decade or so… it hurts to see such divisions over something that, at the end of the day, makes no difference in the saving of souls. And that’s what we’re all here for… right? As one Joseph Ratzinger’s episcopal motto read, let us all be “co-workers in the vineyard of the Lord…” let’s work together for the salvation of all!

Amen! Amen! Amen!

God Bless You. I will pray that a very lucky parish will someday have you for their leader.

 

[LeahInancsi]

Please donate some black shoes and socks for both boys and girls to your parish. They do not need to be expensive, they will be worn for a maximum of 90 minutes at the time and only in rare occasions.

That’s an excellent idea. Since I’m an EMHC at the last Mass on every Sunday, I can take the socks home, wash them and leave a clean pair for the next week. I’ll also leave a can of foot spray for those worried about germs.

 

[LeahInancsi]

I am a 15 year old male alterserver and I seve with a girl a bit younger than me and an 18 year old girl but the rest of them are boys and there are about 15 of us. Some people arnt coming forward because there like they think they will get bullied about it its never been a problem with me because I am in a high social circle at school and I try to make it ok but its hard. Is anyone on this forum an Alterserver ???

Are you saying that the other kids think boys who are altar servers are sissies?

 

[thechrismyster]

heres a crazy idea for getting more altar boys.
just do what my folks did to me and my brothers… they looked at us and said “you’re going to be an altar boy”. and that was that.

we became altar boys. it has more to do with parents today being afraid to tell their kids what to do. kids aren’t little adults. they’re kids. if you tell them what to do they will.

unless they’ve learned not to.