Altar Rail Puts Communicants on Right Track

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Augustinian said:
People don’t want to see protests during mass, its upsetting to them. If these individuals disagreed with the rules, this was not the proper way to address it
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That is true…organised protests in the liturgy are quite disturbing to encounter – wherever the origin of the disruption, whether it is Catholics or non-Catholics.

Even more than that, protests profane the sacred liturgy itself. It is a profoundly disordered act.
 
Maximilian75 said:
In my mind and heart, respect and adoration for the Blessed Sacrament are above respect for any temporal authority that can be flawed or misled.
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You would have done very poorly, then, in the era from which I come.

When I was a student, the Bishop and the masters of the students would specifically contrive situations to test our disposition.

I remember an occasion when the Bishop stopped by the afternoon before one of our more special retreat days that had spiritual exercises focused on the Blessed Sacrament…there would be a procession. It was, each year, a lovely day. The Bishop, as he was leaving, turned and said he had a project for me to do that following day and the Father Master reminded him that it was the retreat for all the seminarians and His Excellency responded, “I don’t care. I have something else for him. He’ll have to be excused”

It was a list of chores to accomplish. At the end of the day, after I had finished everything, he asked: “Are you sorry to have missed the spiritual exercises?” Deep down, humanly yes, I was. My response was: “Your Excellency, to spend a day in retreat with the Blessed Sacrament is a great grace…but God’s expressed will for me today was doing what you gave me to do. I would rather do what Your Excellency asks.”
 
I see where you are coming from, Father. Thank you for your patience. I was going to attempt to PM you the following, but the system would not allow me…

Secondarily, lets say that the two reccievers were out of line. Can the bishop still supress a practice such as kneeling to reccieve the Eucharist? And if such a supression is made mistakenly (bishops are people, after all) how should one react?
 
Don_Ruggero said:
Do you not understand that the provision you rely upon was a later insertion into the GIRM?

I agree completely with bringing charges against these people, in view of what is written in the documents.
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Let me clarify: If someone in a priest’s pastoral care asked to receive Holy Communion in a way he did not allow, and he refused them, after which they always just went back to their seats without receiving at all, and they kept trying and he kept refusing, you are saying he ought to eventually call the police and have his irritating parishoners charged and convicted under civil law? Really?

Amazing. I am just amazed that a priest would enlist civil authorities to intervene in a matter of parish discipline in which there was no theft, no bodily harm, not even any noise. It is like parents calling the police over whether or not their daughter is calling them by their baptismal names instead of addressing them as Mom and Dad or their son is refusing to write Grandma a thank you note! Who calls the police over things like that?

St. Paul didn’t even have use for Christians who actually brought civil matters to civil court. What would he say about presybyters who resorted to civil courts because they could not handle stubborn parishioners engaging in silent protests? Catholics cannot handle the “anxiety” of handling this kind of thing in-house?
I say this to shame you. Can it be that there is not one among you wise enough to be able to settle a case between brothers? But rather brother goes to court against brother, and that before unbelievers?
1 Cor. 6:5-6

I think there is a very good reason that provision was changed. This was a totally unnecessary dispute over an unneeded pastoral restriction, a restriction that did not need to be escalated in this way. It is a scandal that it ever made the headlines.

Parish unity and peace are not someone else’s job, let alone the job of the civil police.
 
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Maximilian75 said:
Can the bishop still supress a practice such as kneeling to reccieve the Eucharist? And if such a supression is made mistakenly (bishops are people, after all) how should one react?
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No, not today. The Holy See has clarified that the Bishop should not use his authority over the liturgy to proscribe this gesture. That was not the case in the 1980s, however.

In the context of the liturgical action, when there is a mistake over a direction about a matter of no great significance – a bow when you should genuflect or a genuflection when you should bow, for example – one should comply with the directive so as not cause a disruption and also to avoid confusing others. Redress of the matter would happen outside the liturgy.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
No, not today. The Holy See has clarified that the Bishop should not use his authority over the liturgy to proscribe this gesture. That was not the case in the 1980s, however.

In the context of the liturgical action, when there is a mistake over a direction about a matter of no great significance – a bow when you should genuflect or a genuflection when you should bow, for example – one should comply with the directive so as not cause a disruption and also to avoid confusing others. Redress of the matter would happen outside the liturgy.
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To clarify: I am not suggesting that the faithful ought to be in power struggles with their pastors or should not make a good faith effort to comply with their directions. They should not. I even think they should not when they could go make trouble with the bishop. The obedience is valuable. I am suggesting that pastors should not be calling in the civil police if it is in any way avoidable when these power struggles unfortunately take place.
 
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Don_Ruggero said:
Circumstances can make them such.
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Yes, when they are a physical danger to themselves or others or when the disruption is truly impossible to look past. This is a disruption that could have been overlooked as it is when teenagers decide to inflict the silent treatment. It is relational aggression, it is wrong, but it is not a matter for the police. It is no easy matter for the parents, I am not saying that, but the parents can handle it. The family will be far better off if they do, in spite of the family tension. That is nothing next to dragging a teen into court for being upsetting but not violent. A parish, likewise, can get through these unfortunate tempests brought on by pride or impatience to have one’s own way.

The civil police, by the way, will never bring peace, harmony or unity to a parish. This “solution” did not solve the problem. It did let those protesting know they were not wanted in the Catholic Church by this particular priest, just as calling the police on a rebellious teen lets them know that they are the unwanted “black sheep.”

The thing about black sheep is that they’re the sheep, too.
 
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That’s awesome, but I"m not sure I would have had the grace to say it. It is the right answer, though. I’m in my 40’s, so neither young nor old, but as you have said, it depends to some degree on the age we were raised in and formation we received as well as disposition, of course.
 
PetraG said:
Yes, when they are a physical danger to themselves or others or when the disruption is truly impossible to look past. This is a disruption that could have been overlooked
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Really? Were you there? Do you know all the events that led up to whatever happened at the culminating event? I certainly wasn’t there. I have, however, been in circumstances, as master of ceremonies to the diocesan bishop, that required an intervention by authorities, which forever after coloured my way of thinking about these matters.

And why would I prefer your assessment of what was appropriate rather than the assessment of the Bishop of Antigonish? From the account available, I would concur with what he decided.
 
Samuel said, “Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams.”

Consider this. It was not protests that brought change whereby people could be denied communion when kneeling. Obey, pray, and wait.
 
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Obedience is everything. We are called to obedience as practising Catholics.

To those who are saying the Altar rails are going to be a wonderful addition in respect of kneeling to receive the Eucharist…

Serious question. What’s the difference between kneeling in the Communion line and kneeling at a rail. Isn’t kneeling just kneeling, as standing is just standing. Wherever this action is performed.
 
PetraG said:
Let me clarify: If someone in a priest’s pastoral care asked to receive Holy Communion in a way he did not allow, and he refused them, after which they always just went back to their seats without receiving at all
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I would actually like to underscore this point.

Since my childhood, I have received the Eucharist while kneeling, while standing, while sitting in a wheelchair and while lying in a hospital bed. The only thing that matter was that I received Him. Not what my posture was.

The people who would walk away rather than receive Him have something very wrong with their thought process…and needed remedial catechesis.
 
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At my parish for daily mass we have two kneelers up in front as people come forward to receive communion. You can kneel if you want to. Don’t have to obviously.

Don’t do that on Sunday, would take too long, I suppose.
 
I loved receiving when I was younger at the rail years ago,the paten being handed to ensure not a speck was lost.The great reverence.Id love to kneel now if I could but I’d be ran over.I do at a home mass.
It really did develop a great reverence for Our Lord to kneel while receiving Him ,that one particular church has really carried down a great reverence over the years .I would love if Alter rails come back,I understand if they don’t.
God bless 🙂
 
It is the same in my Diocese. Lots of families with young children at the TLM
 
The Methodist church where my granddaughter attends daycare does have removable
altar rails I noticed yesterday when I dropped her off. I glanced in the sanctuary. They
are not very wide and can easily be moved and replaced so I guess the Methodists, like
the Episcopalians, have altar rails.
It had been questioned earlier, so I just wanted to add this.
 
I think people are suggesting the use of altar rails because some are unable to kneel on the floor and then stand up without assistance. In my parish we have two kneelers available at the front of the Communion line for those who wish to kneel
 
Oh you were inspected by the bishop and you showed deference? Just curious, what year was it when you were 17?
 
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