Altar Rails to Keep Dogs Out?

[Brendan]

A separate place for q&a? I believe thats out of respect of the Church building, esp since Jesus is in the tabernacle. Or why we do a teaching Mass…thats so teens, young adults, and even kids can know there’s a method to the Catholic calestetics they endure every week.

But if the information being presented is strictly heresay, how much value does it have?

 

[Sr_Sally]

But if the information being presented is strictly heresay, how much value does it have?

I don’t think the information she presented was heresay. I’m sure birds got into big cathedrals and small village churches. You’d want to be protected against bird poo just as much as the priest’s dandruff!

And yes, people did bring animals to church and there were dogs, cats, etc roaming around town. No leash laws then. They could very easily come into the building. Perhaps the rails weren’t meant for dogs specifically, but they would have been useful for that.

Do you have another source that states that these ideas are completely wrong? If not, please don’t accuse.

 

[Brenda_V]

I
Do you have another source that states that these ideas are completely wrong? If not, please don’t accuse.

You know we are not accusing we are asking for verification.

I did say that I would look it up if needed but wanted to know where Meggie had heard it . We here are all willing to be educated further but when one is 49, a Cradle Catholic with a better than average education on the faith and continuing to learn some claims are harder to swallow than others. So this might not qualify as heresy but by golly it smacks of something irreverent which could indeed have happened but my best guess is the Altar rail was not originally used for the purpose of keeping animals away.

Brenda V.

 

[Brendan]

I don’t think the information she presented was heresay. I’m sure birds got into big cathedrals and small village churches. You’d want to be protected against bird poo just as much as the priest’s dandruff!.

I was refering to her original statement that the Elevation at Medieval Masses was encouraged to go as long as possible, even to the extent that men held up the priests arms when he got tired.

The reason bells are used when the priest raises his hands come from the idea that the longer a priest could hold up the Eucharist the holier you became. This would go on for hours with much cheering and chanting and making noise by the peasants. Often alter boys or younger priests were called to hold up a priests arms for longer amounts of time.

Her only proof for that was that she once heard it at a ‘teaching Mass’

I’d actually like to be directed to some historical documentation for this practice. Otherwise, it’s simply heresay.

 

[Meggie]

I didn’t say the alter rail, the alter SCREEN was, however, used to separate what was thought of as holy from the unholy, which included farm animals that were given as collection for the parishes in which the people attended. They didn’t have money to donate to a church so they offered their livestock which they brought into church along with any animal traveling with them.

As far as dogs exactly, I’m not sure that was ever mentioned for my part. Infact, in some mideval cultures and some pre-mideval cultures dogs were feared and scorned and thought of as crude beasts and NEVER on any occasion allowed indoors, even in the most humble of sheds and in other societies it was cats who were frowned upon. In some societies song was frowned upon but in others part of the Mass (beforehand) was a play of the gospels complete with sung psalms.

 

[Brendan]

And yes, people did bring animals to church and there were dogs, cats, etc roaming around town. No leash laws then. They could very easily come into the building. Perhaps the rails weren’t meant for dogs specifically, but they would have been useful for that.

Iffy at best.

What would stop a dog from jumping over it, or a cat from coming in from between the rails.

Anyone who claims that that was even a secondary purpose obviously has not had pets.

They are simply scaled down Rood Screens (which are, in turn, scaled down Iconostasis

Their purpose is to denote the boundary between the Sanctuary and the Nave.

 

[Brendan]

I didn’t say the alter rail, the alter SCREEN was, however, used to separate what was thought of as holy from the unholy,

Correct

which included farm animals that were given as collection for the parishes in which the people attended.

Correct, but the screen wasn’t intented to keep animals out. It couldn’t.

It was, however, the visable boundry line of Sanctuary.

In some societies song was frowned upon but in others part of the Mass (beforehand) was a play of the gospels complete with sung psalms.

I think you are confusing that with a Holocaust play, which was a seperate function from Mass itself.

A Holocaust play was a play about some Biblical story that may or may not have included hymns or psalms. They were most often conducted around Christmas or Easter timeframes. But it was never part of the Mass in any culture.

 

[Meggie]

It was part of the mass experience for many as peasants were only able to attend Mass once or twice a year. Technically, it was a separate thing, but in our modern culture it would be the equivalent to those parishioners who only show up on coffee and dognut Sunday. Coffee and dognuts are in no way a part of Mass but to many Catholics today that’s part of Sunday worship.

It WAS intended to keep the unholy out, and that did mean animals…if it was ment to be a visible barrier they could of made it out of delicate silk only…but its made out of materials ment to stop people and anmials

 

[AJV]

It was part of the mass experience for many as peasants were only able to attend Mass once or twice a year.

Did you mean receive communion instead of attend Mass? I think there were even civil laws in some places dealing with this precept of the Church (attending Mass each week) and the canons were even stricter back then- you could only fulfill the obligation by attending your own parish church and all.

I think you are confusing that with a Holocaust play, which was a seperate function from Mass itself.

A Holocaust play was a play about some Biblical story that may or may not have included hymns or psalms. They were most often conducted around Christmas or Easter timeframes. But it was never part of the Mass in any culture.

The mediaevel Masses did include a fair amount of drama, I think, in the style of the Holy Week, in addition to the plays outside the Mass. The Gospels were often elaborated with many tropes and sung in different voices by one cleric or even sometimes by many clerics. These were very severely restricted and done away by the commission of St. Pius V, which left only a much toned down Holy Week and a few processions.

Speaking of dogs: when I’m attending daily Mass here on vacation, there are regularly two dogs who trot in around the Gospel-Offertory and make a circuit around the church. Although they could jump over the rail, I’ve no doubt that it does prevent them from taking a stroll into the sanctuary.