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Altar Server & Tabernacle
- Thread starter Aanon123
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semper_catholicus
Guest
Well normally, there should be just enough hosts placed in the ciborium beforehand so that you don’t have to go back to the tabernacle to get more.
In the event that you do need more, it would be best to have the priest do it himself, since he is the ordinary minister of communion.
In the event that you do need more, it would be best to have the priest do it himself, since he is the ordinary minister of communion.
M
Mattapoisett64
Guest
Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that the proper action is to “do what Father tells you” (within reason of course)?
M
Maximilian75
Guest
That is completely licit.
You have created multiple threads concerning the licitness and validity of actions by your pastor.
Trust him. He knows better than you. He doesent have bad intentions.
You have created multiple threads concerning the licitness and validity of actions by your pastor.
Trust him. He knows better than you. He doesent have bad intentions.
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Entwhistler
Guest
Right. As an altar server you can’t do much in this case.
Personally, I think the priest should handle a ciborium that holds the Eucharist. But it is licit if a server holds it.
Personally, I think the priest should handle a ciborium that holds the Eucharist. But it is licit if a server holds it.
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Maximilian75
Guest
Ah.
A lot of the questions you’re asking can be answered in the GIRM
http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/
A lot of the questions you’re asking can be answered in the GIRM
http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/
M
Maximilian75
Guest
Any time. It’s a valuable resource for altar servers- a lot more nitty gritty and practicalites of the Mass.
B
Banman52
Guest
I can only speak for my parish, but we do not/would not store unconsecrated hosts in the tabernacle, only valid, consecrated ones, so there is no problem here.
C
Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
This should be true everywhere.
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Reuben_J
Guest
Hope you learn more then.He’s not the pastor, he was a visiting priest. All of it was new and odd to me, and definitely wanted guidance on what do in these situations if they happen again.
It is not new and not odd. If the celebrant asks the altar server, then he will do it.
In some places, the EHMC will take the ciboriums from the tabernacle, if the priest does not do it himself.
R
Roseeurekacross
Guest
That’s a pretty common occurrence . There are consecrated hosts stored in the Tabernacle.
J
JohnLilburne
Guest
At Zenit’s Liturgy Q and A Father McNamara wrote on 24 April 2018:
“It should also be recalled that, during Mass, the task of transferring consecrated hosts from and to the tabernacle should always be done by the deacon or the priest, and not by an extraordinary minister.” (At the end of the article at Number of Tabernacles on Parish Grounds - ZENIT - English ).
On 17 February 2004 (in an article at http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur21.htm ) he wrote:
“A further point mentioned in your question refers to the extraordinary minister of the Eucharist going to the tabernacle to retrieve and repose the hosts. This is not the normal practice during Mass.”
He supports this with extracts from the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM), which I have updated to the 2010 edition:
“162. … If such Priests are not present and there is truly a large number of communicants, the Priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, that is, duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been deputed for this purpose. In case of necessity, the priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion.
These ministers should not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion, and they are always to receive from the hands of the Priest Celebrant the vessel containing the species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful.”
“163. When the distribution of Communion is over, the Priest himself immediately and completely consumes at the altar any consecrated wine that happens to remain; as for any consecrated hosts that are left, he either consumes them at the altar or carries them to the place designated for the reservation of the Eucharist.”
(Continued in next post.)
“It should also be recalled that, during Mass, the task of transferring consecrated hosts from and to the tabernacle should always be done by the deacon or the priest, and not by an extraordinary minister.” (At the end of the article at Number of Tabernacles on Parish Grounds - ZENIT - English ).
On 17 February 2004 (in an article at http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur21.htm ) he wrote:
“A further point mentioned in your question refers to the extraordinary minister of the Eucharist going to the tabernacle to retrieve and repose the hosts. This is not the normal practice during Mass.”
He supports this with extracts from the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM), which I have updated to the 2010 edition:
“162. … If such Priests are not present and there is truly a large number of communicants, the Priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, that is, duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been deputed for this purpose. In case of necessity, the priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion.
These ministers should not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion, and they are always to receive from the hands of the Priest Celebrant the vessel containing the species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful.”
“163. When the distribution of Communion is over, the Priest himself immediately and completely consumes at the altar any consecrated wine that happens to remain; as for any consecrated hosts that are left, he either consumes them at the altar or carries them to the place designated for the reservation of the Eucharist.”
(Continued in next post.)
J
JohnLilburne
Guest
Other extracts that would support this position are:
In the Ceremonial of Bishops it has, in the Chapter “Stational Mass of the Diocesan Bishop”.
“165. … Another deacon or one of the concelebrants takes any remaining consecrated particles to the tabernacle …”.
From the GIRM:
“317. In no way should all the other things prescribed by law concerning the reservation of the Most Holy Eucharist be forgotten. [footnote 131: Cf. particularly in Sacred Congregation for the Sacraments, Instruction Nullo umquam tempore, 28 May 1938: AAS 30 (1938), pp. 198-207; Codex Iuris Canonici, cann. 934-944.].”
A translation of this 1938 document is at RomanRite - Reservation of the Eucharist . It includes:
“6. ( c) The key of the tabernacle must be most diligently kept by a priest. All the cautions mentioned up to the present will be in vain, if the chief caution, namely, the safe-keeping of the key of the tabernacle be neglected. The fourth paragraph of the above canon expressly mentions in respect to this point that a grave burden rests on the conscience of the priest to whom the key of the tabernacle is entrusted. In order to satisfy this obligation of most diligent custody in regard to the key, the Rector is solemnly warned that the key of the tabernacle must never be left on the table of the altar, nor in the door of the tabernacle, not even at the time when the divine offices are carried out in the morning at the altar of the Blessed Sacrament, or communion is distributed, especially if this altar is not in open view. When these offices are over, the key must be kept by the Rector at home, or always carried about by him, care being taken against losing it; or let it be kept in the sacristy in a safe and secret place, under lock and key, the second key being kept by the Rector as above.”
Counter arguments, supporting that the altar server can remove the consecrated hosts from the tabernacle, might be along these lines:
In the Ceremonial of Bishops it has, in the Chapter “Stational Mass of the Diocesan Bishop”.
“165. … Another deacon or one of the concelebrants takes any remaining consecrated particles to the tabernacle …”.
From the GIRM:
“317. In no way should all the other things prescribed by law concerning the reservation of the Most Holy Eucharist be forgotten. [footnote 131: Cf. particularly in Sacred Congregation for the Sacraments, Instruction Nullo umquam tempore, 28 May 1938: AAS 30 (1938), pp. 198-207; Codex Iuris Canonici, cann. 934-944.].”
A translation of this 1938 document is at RomanRite - Reservation of the Eucharist . It includes:
“6. ( c) The key of the tabernacle must be most diligently kept by a priest. All the cautions mentioned up to the present will be in vain, if the chief caution, namely, the safe-keeping of the key of the tabernacle be neglected. The fourth paragraph of the above canon expressly mentions in respect to this point that a grave burden rests on the conscience of the priest to whom the key of the tabernacle is entrusted. In order to satisfy this obligation of most diligent custody in regard to the key, the Rector is solemnly warned that the key of the tabernacle must never be left on the table of the altar, nor in the door of the tabernacle, not even at the time when the divine offices are carried out in the morning at the altar of the Blessed Sacrament, or communion is distributed, especially if this altar is not in open view. When these offices are over, the key must be kept by the Rector at home, or always carried about by him, care being taken against losing it; or let it be kept in the sacristy in a safe and secret place, under lock and key, the second key being kept by the Rector as above.”
Counter arguments, supporting that the altar server can remove the consecrated hosts from the tabernacle, might be along these lines:
- None of the liturgical books describe how consecrated hosts are to be removed from the tabernacle during Mass.
- The requirements of the 1938 document about only a priest keeping the tabernacle key no longer apply, since Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are now able to expose and repose the holy eucharist for the adoration of the faithful (as described in the liturgical book Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass, n. 91).
- Canon 938 has “The person in charge of a church or oratory is to see to it that the key of the tabernacle in which the blessed Eucharist is reserved, is in maximum safe keeping.” (1997, New revised English Translation, ISBN 000599375X). So conceivably the parish priest could decide that this “maximum safe keeping” is best achieved by the altar server holding the tabernacle key, rather than the Priest.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
“162. … If such Priests are not present and there is truly a large number of communicants, the Priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, that is, duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been deputed for this purpose. In case of necessity, the priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion.
These ministers should not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion, and they are always to receive from the hands of the Priest Celebrant the vessel containing the species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful.”
These ministers should not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion, and they are always to receive from the hands of the Priest Celebrant the vessel containing the species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful.”
R
rondirect
Guest
With due respect, it does not matter if he was the pastor or not. Perhaps new and odd to you, this is probably the first time this had happened and was unexpected. Nothing to worry about.
“and definitely wanted guidance on what do in these situations if they happen again.” What would you do if this does happen again? Would you tell the priest at this holy and most awkward moment, “no,” this is not right."? I would hope you would hold your tongue and not get involved with a directive from a priest to the servers at this time.
“and definitely wanted guidance on what do in these situations if they happen again.” What would you do if this does happen again? Would you tell the priest at this holy and most awkward moment, “no,” this is not right."? I would hope you would hold your tongue and not get involved with a directive from a priest to the servers at this time.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
^^This.“and definitely wanted guidance on what do in these situations if they happen again.” What would you do if this does happen again? Would you tell the priest at this holy and most awkward moment, “no,” this is not right."? I would hope you would hold your tongue and not get involved with a directive from a priest to the servers at this time.
If the priest tells you to do something that seems reasonable, do it.
if it’s actually something wrong, it is on the priest’s head - you yourself are not responsible - and it’s highly unlikely the priest is going to tell you to do something that actually constitutes a serious abuse.
Your job is not to be up there second-guessing the priest’s every move.
If you are unable to just follow the guidance of the priest without getting repeatedly perturbed about whether he’s doing things correctly, maybe you should re-think serving.
M
Maximilian75
Guest
Agreed.
You’re an altar server, not an altar referee
You’re an altar server, not an altar referee
V
vallancec
Guest
I was an alter sever and Eucharistic minster for years. I have had priests ask me to take to the ciboriums back and forth from the tabernacle at times because the needed me to for health reasons and they felt unsteady on their feet or they weren’t feeling well that day. These things happen.
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