Altar Server Vesting?

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I know that altar servers often vest in an alb or a surplice and cassock. I have two questions.

First, what is the short shoulder coverings that some servers wear OVER their surplice? In other words they put on their cassock (usually black or red), then a white surplice and then a garment that covers their shoulders, often the same color as their cassock.

Second, when wearing a cassock/surplice, should a server also wear a banded cincture, much like they wear roped cinctures with an alb?
 
Yes said:
I know that altar servers often vest in an alb or a surplice and cassock. I have two questions.

First, what is the short shoulder coverings that some servers wear OVER their surplice? In other words they put on their cassock (usually black or red), then a white surplice and then a garment that covers their shoulders, often the same color as their cassock.
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Shoulder cape? Like a mini-mozetta
Second, when wearing a cassock/surplice, should a server also wear a banded cincture, much like they wear roped cinctures with an alb?
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I guess a lot depends on local cusom but I would say no.
 
The shoulder cape is only worn on special occasions, and I think denotes a special role, like Master of Ceremonies. I could be wrong.😛

Peace,
Linda
 
Yes said:
Second, when wearing a cassock/surplice, should a server also wear a banded cincture, much like they wear roped cinctures with an alb?
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Usually no cinctures with a cassock.

The draped shoulder thingy you talk about is probably just part of the surplice. Altar boys (yes I said boys… girls should not be wearing cassock or surplice since it is male clothing and a direct correlation with priestly vestments…) have the norm of wearing Cassock and surplice or an Alb (albs are for girls too) any thing “extra” is likely just a parish thing. However all altar servers should be wearing the same matching garb. So either all cassock and surplices or when girls are present All should be wearing Albs.
 
THurifer2 said:
Usually no cinctures with a cassock… The draped shoulder thingy you talk about is probably just part of the surplice… any thing “extra” is likely just a parish thing. However all altar servers should be wearing the same matching garb…
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The ordained should always be wearing a band surplice when wearing a cassock/surplice during the liturgy, I’m just not certain about lay altar servers. No, it’s not “part of the surplice” nor is it “just a parish thing.” And no, it’s quite proper for cassocks/surplices to be worn by male altar servers and albs by female altar servers during the same Mass – as is done for example at the National Shrine in DC.

I still wonder what that “shoulder vestment” is called and I wonder when it’s allowed to be worn? They do indeed look like a very plain and abbreviated “mini-mozetta.”

There is also a mini “humeral veil” (not the correct term) that is worn by lay altar servers who process behind the celebrating prelate at some Masses. It would be interesting to know what that vestment is called and what governs its useage.
 
What are the relevant texts for cassock and surplice for males only? I might need that info soon to defend this norm.
 
Windmill said:
What are the relevant texts for cassock and surplice for males only? I might need that info soon to defend this norm.
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There are none. That said, the cassock/surplice is clerical garb that has been traditionally “loaned” to altar boys who might just one day become ordained. In some countries this includes the Roman collar as well.

Now that the Church allows female altar servers, many feel that this “loan” does not necessarily extend to females who have no future potential to wear the garb as ordained ministers.

I would also suggest the cassock/surplice combination is frequently worn by female Protestants, be they cantors, singers, servers, etc.
 
Yes said:
There are none.
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Yes there are…the ruberics for the TLM say that altar servers are to be male…the “allowance” of female altar servers is extended to the novus ordo.

I
Yes said:
would also suggest the cassock/surplice combination is frequently worn by female Protestants, be they cantors, singers, servers, etc.
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I would also suggest that the vast majority of protestants do many things that are not Roman Catholic…Artificial contraception comes to mind. As far as the liturgy goes I never look to the protestants for guidance.
 
Windmill said:
What are the relevant texts for cassock and surplice for males only? I might need that info soon to defend this norm.
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That’s like asking for documentation on a nun’s habit being female only garb. 🤷

Cassocks are what clerics where, and clerics are, by definition, guys.

In much the same way, habits are what nuns wear, and nuns are, by defintion, female.
 
Yes said:
There are none. That said, the cassock/surplice is clerical garb that has been traditionally “loaned” to altar boys who might just one day become ordained. In some countries this includes the Roman collar as well.

Now that the Church allows female altar servers, many feel that this “loan” does not necessarily extend to females who have no future potential to wear the garb as ordained ministers.

I would also suggest the cassock/surplice combination is frequently worn by female Protestants, be they cantors, singers, servers, etc.
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Protestants believe in and do many things that are in direct contrast to established Catholic doctrine and norms. Citing and by obvious extension agreeing with certain practices to some degree, with anything they do as far as worship is concerned is, I feel, totally unnecessary, ill advised and possibly destructive
 
palmas85 said:
Protestants believe in and do many things that are in direct contrast to established Catholic doctrine and norms. Citing and by obvious extension agreeing with certain practices to some degree, with anything they do as far as worship is concerned is, I feel, totally unnecessary, ill advised and possibly destructive
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You need to dial it back a notch or three. I typed the following:

“I would also suggest the cassock/surplice combination is frequently worn by female Protestants, be they cantors, singers, servers, etc.”

While clearly lost on you, Protestant use of clerical garb by laypersons is yet another reason why Catholics should not make the same mistake and I illustrated that.
 
THurifer2 said:
Yes there are…the ruberics for the TLM say that altar servers are to be male…the “allowance” of female altar servers is extended to the novus ordo…
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Please don’t change the original question. Someone asked if there is any documentation that specifically limits the wearing of the cassock and surplice to males and there is not.

If an obsolete GIRM does indeed control the tridentine Mass that’s fine, but it does not say that only males are to wear the cassock and alb.
 
The Cassock is a MALE garment, a clerical garment, simple. Females should not wear it. We have a sensus Catholicus and common sense; pure logic dictates females should not wear a cassock.

Any baptised layperson, male or female can wear the Alb. Which is why if feamles do serve, they should wear one.
 
The mini cope some altar boys wear is probably used when a bishop is presiding, to hold their mitre and/or crosier, symbolic of the fact that what they hold is not theirs.
 
Yes said:
Please don’t change the original question. Someone asked if there is any documentation that specifically limits the wearing of the cassock and surplice to males and there is not.
.
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Where is the documentation that states that altar BOYS should wear a nun’s habit when they serve?
 
Good post. Just because boys (can) wear a cassock and surplice, does not mean that the altar girls can as well. Sorry, I do not think there should be any female servers at all for any purpose. There can be found males to help. God will provide.

John
 
CatholicNick said:
The Cassock is a MALE garment, a clerical garment, simple…
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Actually it’s not all that “simple.” The cassock/surplice combination has traditionally been “loaned” to altar boys, but there is nothing formal that I have read on the matter.

Does this “loan” for example, extend to adult male altar servers as well? The GIRM is mum on this matter.

It would be nice for the church to specifically say that the cassock/surplice is limited to men, but we know what that would cause in many instances – female altar servers donning them just to “show Rome.”
 
Not every element exists in the GIRM, which itself never needed to exist before the New Mass.

It [cassock/surplice] is loaned to Altar boys as a clerical garment. It is thus a male garment.

lets not get into semantics about this. Altar boys fill in the role of an Instituted/ordained acolyte, which are the only ones who have a RIGHT to serve on the Altar. Altar boys do therefore imitate/fill in for this office because of the lack of Instituted/ordained acolytes - therefore the wearing of the cassock and surplice (and in some places the roman collar also) can be said to be by Indult.

Its common sense women should not wear Cassocks - they can never attain the office of acolyte or become clerics.
 
Yes said:
You need to dial it back a notch or three. I typed the following:

“I would also suggest the cassock/surplice combination is frequently worn by female Protestants, be they cantors, singers, servers, etc.”

While clearly lost on you, Protestant use of clerical garb by laypersons is yet another reason why Catholics should not make the same mistake and I illustrated that.
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After reading and re-reading your post, it still appears that you are defending the practice of female altar servers using cassocks and surplices and that you were using the use of said garments by Protestants as some sort of justification for the practice… If I misread I apologize.
 
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