Altar Server?

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Larowyn said:
After about 16 or so, people usually start to comment on how old you are or think you should be a priest. Or both. I wonder what BIZARRO WORLD parishes people belong to where adult altar servers are A-okay.
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What a crude comment. I am 40 and I am the youngest server (and likely attendee) that attends the early morning Mass. Drag kids to the 07:00 to serve Mass? No way. It’s been tried more then a few times and it’s always been an abysmal failure…
 
kleary said:
And I thought this was the Traditional Catholic Forum…

Time for a new forum Catholic Answers -

Can we please have an “Extradordinary Form of the Roman Rite” forum to replace this one?

No females allowed to serve in the “Traditional Mass” - and that is the Traditional practice.
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I wouldn’t be so sure about that. The allowance of female servers is based on Canon Law, not on the Missale Romanum. The current revision of the Code applies to both the OF and the EF.
 
Spiller said:
What a crude comment. I am 40 and I am the youngest server (and likely attendee) that attends the early morning Mass. Drag kids to the 07:00 to serve Mass? No way. It’s been tried more then a few times and it’s always been an abysmal failure…
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I knew my other post wasn’t read.
 
Larowyn said:
I knew my other post wasn’t read.
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:rotfl:

Maybe I shouldn’t laugh, but I can’t help myself. I did actually read your first post. Then I read the second and thought, “Did he/she just say they were an Altar Server?”
 
kleary said:
And I thought this was the Traditional Catholic Forum…

Time for a new forum Catholic Answers -

Can we please have an “Extradordinary Form of the Roman Rite” forum to replace this one?

No females allowed to serve in the “Traditional Mass” - and that is the Traditional practice.
Click to expand...
Actually, it’s the Liturgy & Sacraments Forum on Catholic Answers…
 
Spiller said:
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. The allowance of female servers is based on Canon Law, not on the Missale Romanum. The current revision of the Code applies to both the OF and the EF.
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Yes, but Pope Benedicts Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum states that the rubrics of 1962 are to be faithfully followed.

The Rubrics of the 1962 Missal indicate that the server is a ‘he’ (the masculine cases are used exclusively). So whoever is making the responses, moving the book, ringing the bells and holding the paten, etc… is to be male.

A Motu Proprio is a higher authority than Canon Law and supercedes it ( in fact it is the hightest authority document on Church governance a Pope can issue)

What is also interesting is that the Pope himself is the Legislative Authority ( Canon 16), so any questions (like if the ‘he’ in the 1962 Missal can also refer to females) must be directed to the Pope alone. Of course the Pope may delegate the decision, but it must go to the Pope.

Rulings specifically based on Interpretations of Canon Law cannot be used in lieu of a Papal decision as Motu Proprio supercedes that.

The document you are refering to was issued as an “Authentic Interpretation” of Canon 230.2

adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html

As you can see, it cannot apply to Summorum Pontificum, both because the issuing authority ( the CDWDS) has no jurisdiction to rule on SP under Canon 16 ( it was not the Legislating Authority, the Pope Himself is), and SP supercedes Canon Law anyway.

Does that help?
 
nicolep said:
:rotfl:

Maybe I shouldn’t laugh, but I can’t help myself. I did actually read your first post. Then I read the second and thought, “Did he/she just say they were an Altar Server?”
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Yeah, I wanted to test a theory. Sometimes it seems that people don’t really read everything everyone else posts. On huge threads it’s understandable.

The part about people commenting on a server’s age after about 16 was true for me, though; I was pressured into retirement by the new parish priest at 22 (after having been his MC for two years) and parishioners commented on how old I was and the younger servers teased me about it.
 
What is your nephew’s schedule? Is he available for early morning daily Mass? We only use adults at those Masses in our parish. Does his parish have a school? Non-school parishes can not pick from students for daily Masses, so are in need of adults for all daily Masses, funerals, etc. Are there evening Novenas in his parish? That is another time adults are used in my parish as servers. It wouldn’t be unusual at all to see an adult server here. He should speak to his priest about it, he might be very much needed.
 
Brendan said:
Yes, but Pope Benedicts Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum states that the rubrics of 1962 are to be faithfully followed.

The Rubrics of the 1962 Missal indicate that the server is a ‘he’ (the masculine cases are used exclusively). So whoever is making the responses, moving the book, ringing the bells and holding the paten, etc… is to be male.

A Motu Proprio is a higher authority than Canon Law and supercedes it ( in fact it is the hightest authority document on Church governance a Pope can issue)

What is also interesting is that the Pope himself is the Legislative Authority ( Canon 16), so any questions (like if the ‘he’ in the 1962 Missal can also refer to females) must be directed to the Pope alone. Of course the Pope may delegate the decision, but it must go to the Pope.

Rulings specifically based on Interpretations of Canon Law cannot be used in lieu of a Papal decision as Motu Proprio supercedes that.

The document you are refering to was issued as an “Authentic Interpretation” of Canon 230.2

adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html

As you can see, it cannot apply to Summorum Pontificum, both because the issuing authority ( the CDWDS) has no jurisdiction to rule on SP under Canon 16 ( it was not the Legislating Authority, the Pope Himself is), and SP supercedes Canon Law anyway.

Does that help?
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I don’t believe that’s the case…

It will be interesting to see if some parishes have female altar servers for the EF. Based on this thread, at least one already does…
 
BamaRider said:
Currently our altar servers are 60-40 young females to boys, they are the traditional ages of most parish servers. I told him it was a great idea, but he needed to find at least one other guy his age so they could serve together.
…

don’t have any hard evidence, but the proliferation of girls at my parish has had a effect on the boys, they don’t wanna do it seems. At least 1 weekend Mass all 3 servers are female.
…

I don’t wanna come off unappreciative, but at a recent Entrance Procession, the little girl with the incense really struggled. She was not able to swing the cistern effectively, and basically had to just hold it by her side.
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i’m 29 and i serve all the time, whenever it is needed, anywhere. the old ladies and adults love it. it has a million advantages, including the many graces being showered upon those in the Mass, especially boys. fyi, adult altar servers are called Acolytes. 🙂

personally i am vehemently against girl altar servers. there’s tons of reasons and you can find tons of discussions and articles on why they shouldn’t be as common as they are today. it takes a much deeper understanding of the Mass and these people just won’t listen. fortunately we have a great pope today and he is going to lay the smack down on abuses such as these…
 
Larowyn said:
Yeah, I wanted to test a theory. Sometimes it seems that people don’t really read everything everyone else posts. On huge threads it’s understandable.

The part about people commenting on a server’s age after about 16 was true for me, though; I was pressured into retirement by the new parish priest at 22 (after having been his MC for two years) and parishioners commented on how old I was and the younger servers teased me about it.
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Unfortunately, I think the same thing would happen at my parish. The server’s are usually pretty young. Then on the “big” days, they have just the high school boys.
 
Spiller said:
I don’t believe that’s the case…
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Which part?

1.That a Motu Proprio is a document with higher authority than Canon Law
  1. That it was the CDWDS that made an Interpretation of Canon 230.2 as it was the Legislative Authority for the Code.
  2. That the CDWDS is NOT the Legislative authorty of the Motu Proprio under Canon 6
  3. That the Pope, a higher authority than the CDWDS IS, in fact, the Legislative Authority under Canon 6.
Which one do you not believe?
It will be interesting to see if some parishes have female altar servers for the EF. Based on this thread, at least one already does…
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The fact that a parish is doing it already is, in no way, indicitive of the licity of the practice.
 
johnnydigit said:
i’m 29 and i serve all the time, whenever it is needed, anywhere. the old ladies and adults love it. it has a million advantages, including the many graces being showered upon those in the Mass, especially boys. fyi, adult altar servers are called Acolytes. 🙂

personally i am vehemently against girl altar servers. there’s tons of reasons and you can find tons of discussions and articles on why they shouldn’t be as common as they are today. it takes a much deeper understanding of the Mass and these people just won’t listen. fortunately we have a great pope today and he is going to lay the smack down on abuses such as these…
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That’s not true…

“Acolytes” are permanently instituted lay male ministers who do the job of severs and EMsHC. EMsHC are temporarily commissioned males or females. Servers are neither instituted nor commissioned.

Similarly, “lectors” are permanently instituted lay male ministers while “readers” are temporarily commissioned males or females.

While men may be instituted as acolytes as an end in itself, most who are instituted are on their way to becoming priests or deacons…
 
Our parish priest once lamented that he seems to lose his altar servers when they turn 18… which is the minimum age requirement for being an altar server at St. Peter’s Basilica. Not sure if that’s true, but he keeps reminding our 14-year-old that he hopes to have him around for more than 4 more years!
 
bluerose said:
Our parish priest once lamented that he seems to lose his altar servers when they turn 18… which is the minimum age requirement for being an altar server at St. Peter’s Basilica. Not sure if that’s true, but he keeps reminding our 14-year-old that he hopes to have him around for more than 4 more years!
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I wish it was that way at my parish. I’d rather be an altar boy again than a lector and Eucharistic Minister.
 
Spiller said:
That’s not true…

“Acolytes” are permanently instituted lay male ministers who do the job of severs and EMsHC. EMsHC are temporarily commissioned males or females. Servers are neither instituted nor commissioned.

Similarly, “lectors” are permanently instituted lay male ministers while “readers” are temporarily commissioned males or females.

While men may be instituted as acolytes as an end in itself, most who are instituted are on their way to becoming priests or deacons…
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S_Corda said:
The definition of Acolyte has changed since the Catholic encyclopedia was published (1914?). It is not a Minor Order.
For example, in CHRISTIFIDELES LAICI: "23. … In the course of Synod work the Fathers devoted much attention to the Lectorate and the Acolytate. While in the past these ministries existed in the Latin Church only as spiritual steps on route to the ordained ministry, with the motu proprio of Paul VI, Ministeria Quaedam (15 August 1972), they assumed an autonomy and stability, as well as a possibility of their being given to the lay faithful, albeit, only to men. … "
( see makeashorterlink.com/?V15712E88)

Another example, in the Code of Canon Law (vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PV.HTM) :
Can. 230 ?1. Lay men who possess the age and qualifications established by decree of the conference of bishops can be admitted on a stable basis through the prescribed liturgical rite to the ministries of lector and acolyte.

You can find the term Acolyte in several places in the GIRM as well. Those interested can search the sites www.usccb.org and www.vatican.va for more on the ministries of Acolyte and Lector.
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BamaRider said:
My 24 year old, strappling firefighter, and recently married nephew asked me what I thought about him becoming a altar server.

Currently our altar servers are 60-40 young females to boys, they are the traditional ages of most parish servers. I told him it was a great idea, but he needed to find at least one other guy his age so they could serve together.

His unique work scheudle would make him available to serve during the weekday Masses and help father at funerals and weddings. Currently we have no servers for weekday stuff.

I told him his presence might encourage other boys and young men to step forward and help Father, and show them serving the at the Altar is not “wimpy.” I don’t have any hard evidence, but the proliferation of girls at my parish has had a effect on the boys, they don’t wanna do it seems. At least 1 weekend Mass all 3 servers are female.

I don’t wanna come off unappreciative, but at a recent Entrance Procession, the little girl with the incense really struggled. She was not able to swing the cistern effectively, and basically had to just hold it by her side.

My question to my fellow Catholics is this- Would such a server as my nephew seem odd to y’all and would ya have a problem with it? What would be some negatives? He says he won’t do it if it gonna make him look “dumb” (his words). I think it would be ok if he came in leading the younger boys, but I dunno. He says he’ll take the job seriously meaning he won’t wear white Nikes while serving. LOL.

I asked him what his young (recently converted) wife would think, if he was unable to sit with her at Mass because of serving. He said he didn’t know, but we sit as a family anyway so she won’t be alone.

Ever since he saw the server wearing the white gloves that attends the Holy Father’s staff, he has been interested.
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It’s a wonderful idea! We need an example for the older men to take activness in the mass. I really like that he will be very reverent. I recently saw a girl alter server about 8-9 and she had her alb pulled up to her kness :eek: and she was wearing crocs :eek: and she never once genuflected or bowed to the tabernacle or alter :bigyikes: .
 
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