Altar servers at a Wedding ceremony?

[Suslar]

I just wanted to make certain that no one came to the wrong conclusion from your post. That something can be considered as part of evidence belonging to a bigger picture does not mean that it is evidence for nullity in and of itself. That is my point.

Thank you for your clarification.

 

[Suslar]

As the OP said, his fiancee is not Catholic. I assume the priest recommended a ceremony outside of Mass, which was also the recommendation in my case, because my husband had been baptized but never catechized.

The ceremony is still Catholic. Where is the confusion?

My confusion is that I did not make any of the assumption you did.
The OP didn’t state “his fiancee is not Catholic” – at least not in this thread
and the OP did not state his “priest recommended a ceremony outside of Mass.”

The OP only provided a few facts. That’s all any of us really have to go off when replying. Without meaning any disrespect to you or your spouse, I still LOVE weddings that are held withint he context of Mass. That’s MY opinion. And you are entitled to yours. Please know that no one else’s opinion can invalidate your holy union nor should it get you upset. Golly, I don’t even know you! Yet, I will still wish you and your beloved many wonderful and happy years of married life. May God continue to bless you and your family.

 

[Katie966]

My confusion is that I did not make any of the assumption you did.
The OP didn’t state “his fiancee is not Catholic” – at least not in this thread
and the OP did not state his “priest recommended a ceremony outside of Mass.”

The OP only provided a few facts. That’s all any of us really have to go off when replying. Without meaning any disrespect to you or your spouse, I still LOVE weddings that are held withint he context of Mass. That’s MY opinion. And you are entitled to yours. Please know that no one else’s opinion can invalidate your holy union nor should it get you upset. Golly, I don’t even know you! Yet, I will still wish you and your beloved many wonderful and happy years of married life. May God continue to bless you and your family.

Yes, he did. Please refer to post #8 where he said his fiancee is not Catholic.

Sorry for getting upset, but you seemed to suggest, by saying that “there is nothing more beautiful than a bride and groom who realize that Sacramental marriage is an unbreakable bond consisting of three strands – man, woman and God” that those who marry in a ceremony outside of Mass somehow don’t “realize” this, or that they are somehow excluding God. Not so. I love the Mass too, however there are reasons why they are not always part of a wedding ceremony and being judgmental and assuming that it was the best choice for the OP isn’t fair. The OP asked a question about altar servers, and you proceeded to tell him that he should have a Mass without knowing the circumstances of his relationship.

 

[joanofarc2008]

I’m confused – albeit easily so.

You want to “marry my fiancee in Church, before God” in a ceremony that is “unashamedly Catholic in character”

But you’re excluding the Holy Mass? There is nothing more unashamedly Catholic than our beautiful Mass!

While I don’t know you, I’d humbly urge you to reconsider including Jesus Christ in your wedding plans. There is nothing more beautiful than a bride and groom who realize that Sacramental marriage is an unbreakable bond consisting of three strands – man, woman and God.

Congratulations and best wishes for a long and contented life together!

She mentioned her fiancee is not Catholic. She is not able to have a Catholic Mass because of this. Due to this your post does kind of come off a bit harsh although I am sure it is only because you overlooked that fact. God bless.

 

[Suslar]

She mentioned her fiancee is not Catholic. She is not able to have a Catholic Mass because of this. Due to this your post does kind of come off a bit harsh although I am sure it is only because you overlooked that fact. God bless.

Thanks Joan. I was posting at the same time OP was adding post #8 and did not see it. Certainly not intended to be harsh at all.

 

[Suslar]

Yes, he did. Please refer to post #8 where he said his fiancee is not Catholic.

Sorry for getting upset, but you seemed to suggest, by saying that “there is nothing more beautiful than a bride and groom who realize that Sacramental marriage is an unbreakable bond consisting of three strands – man, woman and God” that those who marry in a ceremony outside of Mass somehow don’t “realize” this, or that they are somehow excluding God. Not so. I love the Mass too, however there are reasons why they are not always part of a wedding ceremony and being judgmental and assuming that it was the best choice for the OP isn’t fair. The OP asked a question about altar servers, and you proceeded to tell him that he should have a Mass without knowing the circumstances of his relationship.

Thanks for your post, Katie. Thanks too for the reference for post #8. Nope, didn’t see his comment.

Yet, I will always hold fast to the concept that Sacramental marriage is an unbreakable bond consisting of three strands – man, woman and God. That is what the Church teaches and what we believe.

If you re-reread my posts, I never said Sacramental marriages ONLY occur within the context of Mass. If someone assumed that, they made the error as that was not stated nor implied. Nor was their even intent to upset anyone or cause hurt feelings.

I can’t answer the OP’s question about altar servers but neither can anyone else on here as that’s up to the couple and their priest. May God bless them with a long and blissful life together!

 

[joanofarc2008]

Thanks Joan. I was posting at the same time OP was adding post #8 and did not see it. Certainly not intended to be harsh at all.

Yes I noticed after that you had posted as well. Sorry about the dual posting. Just for clarification as well - the reason that a Mass is not allowed for a Catholic and non-Catholic spouse is that everything that is done in a Nuptial Mass is about unity of the Bride and Groom. However, at the moment when it would come time to receive the Eucharist only one spouse would be able to receive the Eucharist which would mean starting off the marriage with a moment of disunity with Christ. When one looks at it that way it is really not so beautiful.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thanks for your post, Katie. Thanks too for the reference for post #8. Nope, didn’t see his comment.

Yet, I will always hold fast to the concept that Sacramental marriage is an unbreakable bond consisting of three strands – man, woman and God. That is what the Church teaches and what we believe.

If you re-reread my posts, I never said Sacramental marriages ONLY occur within the context of Mass. If someone assumed that, they made the error as that was not stated nor implied. Nor was their even intent to upset anyone or cause hurt feelings.

I can’t answer the OP’s question about altar servers but neither can anyone else on here as that’s up to the couple and their priest. May God bless them with a long and blissful life together!

My issue was with the wording you chose: “reconsider including Jesus Christ in your wedding plans”. That wording sounds a bit as if a wedding celebrated outside of Mass does not include the Lord. Obviously, though, you meant no such thing!!

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes I noticed after that you had posted as well. Sorry about the dual posting. Just for clarification as well - the reason that a Mass is not allowed for a Catholic and non-Catholic spouse is that everything that is done in a Nuptial Mass is about unity of the Bride and Groom. However, at the moment when it would come time to receive the Eucharist only one spouse would be able to receive the Eucharist which would mean starting off the marriage with a moment of disunity with Christ. When one looks at it that way it is really not so beautiful.

Having said that, a nuptial Mass is allowed when a Catholic marries a baptised non-Catholic. Even though one spouse may not receive Holy Communion, both are baptised into the death and resurrection of Christ and the marriage itself is sacramental, so it does not need to be looked upon as a disunity. It can also be looked upon, for instance, as a public testament of the non-Catholic spouse’s commitment to support the Catholic’s full practice of the faith. It just depends on how the couple, the priest preparing them for marriage, and the local custom looks upon the deeper meaning of the outward signs.

 

[GWright]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the delay, this is the first chance ive had to check the forum since kicking off the original discussion.

Just to clarify the situation: My fiancee is not a Catholic. She is a baptised Christian, (presbyterian - Church of Scotland) and was formerly (years ago) a practicing member of that church* (*or “ecclesiastical community” as I think the proper term would be!). Indeed, she was quite heavily involved - teaching sunday school and the like.

Since then, she has fallen away from the church of scotland and, although still professing a faith in God, does not currently attend any church. She stopped attending perhaps 7-8 years ago, and has never attended during the time I have known her (nearly 3 years, and it will be about 3.5 years, come our marriage).

However, her parents still attend the Church of Scotland, and their faith is important to them. Additionally, most of her guest list for the wedding will not be Catholics - most of her relations are either nominally protestant (like her) or are a mixture of different types of practicing protestants - presbyterians, baptists, you name it.

Since a wedding is a uniting occasion, it was important to us both that all guests at the ceremony felt included and welcome. So, we felt it best to avoid any part which may be interpreted - however mistakenly - as being divisive or exclusive.

Don’t get me wrong - I would dearly loved to have a nuptial mass and receive communion during my wedding. However, in our circumstances, there is clearly much more to consider than simply my own wishes. At the end of the day, I can still attend a mass and receive communion the day before, or on the morning of the wedding itself. I always intended to go to confession before the marriage anyway, and so there is no additional effort involved for me.

Historically, the Church of Scotland was pretty hostile towards Catholicism. Today I am glad to say there are now good relations, but misunderstandings can still occur. Although there are, of course, sound reasons for denying the eucharist to those who deny the real presence - I don’t think this is much comfort to those who would be unable to participate. I tend to think people feel it is a slight upon them, that they “aren’t good enough” or whatever. That is obviously deeply misguided, but sadly I can do nothing about the perceptions of others.

We both agreed that a wedding ceremony would be most appropriate, even before meeting with the priest. He agreed with our decision, even though a full nuptial mass was still an option. I think it is definitely best to concentrate on what unites us on this occasion, than what divides us. I think this decision was vindicated, as some of her guests have since wanted to check whether there would be communion or not, so it is obviously something which had concerned them. (additionally, some of my Catholic guests have moaned that we are not having communion - you cant please everyone! - but I do think they are rather overlooking the feelings of others with their opinion).

Although, yes, it could be said this is a concession on my part - we must of course recognise that, due to the ceremony taking place in a Catholic Church, there is a concession on the part of my fiancees family too. We have to meet half way. (I am still having the best of it though, lol, as our children will obviously be Catholic!). Her family have always been very kind, generous and welcoming to me, so I do not want to alienate them in any fashion. They are generously going to great effort and expense (with the reception etc) to help create a happy wedding day for us and so they deserve to feel fully comfortable and included throughout.

When I said I wanted to have a ceremony which was “unashamedly Catholic” - perhaps I was being rather conceited. And I apologise if so. I of course realise that our wedding will be authentically Catholic regardless and I am deeply grateful for that.

Thank you all again for your advice and kind wishes!

I am sure our marriage will a long and very happy one.

PS - here’s hoping there isn’t a punch up at the reception or anything!

 

[joanofarc2008]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the delay, this is the first chance ive had to check the forum since kicking off the original discussion.

Just to clarify the situation: My fiancee is not a Catholic. She is a baptised Christian, (presbyterian - Church of Scotland) and was formerly (years ago) a practicing member of that church* (*or “ecclesiastical community” as I think the proper term would be!). Indeed, she was quite heavily involved - teaching sunday school and the like.

Since then, she has fallen away from the church of scotland and, although still professing a faith in God, does not currently attend any church. She stopped attending perhaps 7-8 years ago, and has never attended during the time I have known her (nearly 3 years, and it will be about 3.5 years, come our marriage).

However, her parents still attend the Church of Scotland, and their faith is important to them. Additionally, most of her guest list for the wedding will not be Catholics - most of her relations are either nominally protestant (like her) or are a mixture of different types of practicing protestants - presbyterians, baptists, you name it.

Since a wedding is a uniting occasion, it was important to us both that all guests at the ceremony felt included and welcome. So, we felt it best to avoid any part which may be interpreted - however mistakenly - as being divisive or exclusive.

Don’t get me wrong - I would dearly loved to have a nuptial mass and receive communion during my wedding. However, in our circumstances, there is clearly much more to consider than simply my own wishes. At the end of the day, I can still attend a mass and receive communion the day before, or on the morning of the wedding itself. I always intended to go to confession before the marriage anyway, and so there is no additional effort involved for me.

Historically, the Church of Scotland was pretty hostile towards Catholicism. Today I am glad to say there are now good relations, but misunderstandings can still occur. Although there are, of course, sound reasons for denying the eucharist to those who deny the real presence - I don’t think this is much comfort to those who would be unable to participate. I tend to think people feel it is a slight upon them, that they “aren’t good enough” or whatever. That is obviously deeply misguided, but sadly I can do nothing about the perceptions of others.

We both agreed that a wedding ceremony would be most appropriate, even before meeting with the priest. He agreed with our decision, even though a full nuptial mass was still an option. I think it is definitely best to concentrate on what unites us on this occasion, than what divides us. I think this decision was vindicated, as some of her guests have since wanted to check whether there would be communion or not, so it is obviously something which had concerned them. (additionally, some of my Catholic guests have moaned that we are not having communion - you cant please everyone! - but I do think they are rather overlooking the feelings of others with their opinion).

Although, yes, it could be said this is a concession on my part - we must of course recognise that, due to the ceremony taking place in a Catholic Church, there is a concession on the part of my fiancees family too. We have to meet half way. (I am still having the best of it though, lol, as our children will obviously be Catholic!). Her family have always been very kind, generous and welcoming to me, so I do not want to alienate them in any fashion. They are generously going to great effort and expense (with the reception etc) to help create a happy wedding day for us and so they deserve to feel fully comfortable and included throughout.

When I said I wanted to have a ceremony which was “unashamedly Catholic” - perhaps I was being rather conceited. And I apologise if so. I of course realise that our wedding will be authentically Catholic regardless and I am deeply grateful for that.

Thank you all again for your advice and kind wishes!

I am sure our marriage will a long and very happy one.

PS - here’s hoping there isn’t a punch up at the reception or anything!

This was a very heartfelt and beautiful post. God bless you on your upcoming nuptials.

 

[Joe_5859]

GW, thanks for sharing.

Most priests I know counsel couples where only one party is Catholic to forgo the nuptial Mass for just those reasons you stated. So don’t feel bad about making the decision that best suits your situation.