Alter Calls

[Kevan]

Care to elaborate on this?

The earlier suggestion was Did protestants developed the Alter Call because they were jealous of the Catholics receiving Jesus in the Eucharist and they needed an equivalent? Before the great Irish immigration in the 1840s (or sometime around then), the percentage of Catholics on the scene was negligible. The going thing was revivalism and Protestants were far too worried about their own situations to be observing and envying Catholics. The altar call appeared in the 1820s in circumstances totally removed from those suggested.

 

[elvisman]

I will NEVER understand the term, “Altar Call”.
I always thought that Protestants rejected the notion of having an altar in the first place? Don’t you believe that the sacrifice at Calvary was a one-time event?
The reason that the Catholic Church has an altar is to celebrate the Mass - the ONGOING and ETERNAL sacrifice Jesus presents to the Father on our behalf.
Shouldn’t Protestants call it a “Podium Call”??

---

 

[dawgfan]

**I will NEVER **understand the term, “Altar Call”.
I always thought that Protestants rejected the notion of having an altar in the first place? Don’t you believe that the sacrifice at Calvary was a one-time event?
The reason that the Catholic Church has an altar is to celebrate the Mass - the ONGOING and ETERNAL sacrifice Jesus presents to the Father on our behalf.
**Shouldn’t Protestants **call it a “Podium Call”??

---

from wikipedia

Altars occupy a prominent place in the chancels of many churches, invariably in those of pre-Reformation Christians, such as those belonging to the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian Churches, but also in those of Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, and other more sacramental denominations.

You learn something new everyday, huh?

 

[cazayoux]

Other.

Isn’t it an altar call when you to the altar to receive Jesus?
Isn’t this what I’m doing when I go to communion (receive Jesus)?

michel

 

[elvisman]

from wikipedia

You learn something new everyday, huh?

Actually, I don’t hold much credence with what Wikipedia has to say. It can be altered (pardon the pun) by anyone who logs on.
Here’s what good ol’ Websters says:

1 : a usually raised structure or place on which sacrifices are offered or incense is burned in worship — often used figuratively to describe a thing given great or undue precedence or value especially at the cost of something else sacrificed his family life on the altar of career advancement
2 : a table on which the eucharistic elements are consecrated or which serves as a center of worship or ritual

 

[Singinbeauty]

I’ve always thought of John the Baptist calling on people to make a PUBLIC confession, to repent of their sins. (Mathew chapter 3).

That is pretty much what an altar call is in my understanding…

 

[Singinbeauty]

Well how does it feel to be ignored?

There are thred after therd on the pope, Mary, the Real Presents, papel authority etc. etc. These issuse have been explained time after time. Protestants go around and around, show me in the bible show me in teh bible. So show me the words Alter Call in the bible.

It is like the pope, the words might not be there but maybe you can see the concept. I can’t.

I will leave the explaining of the words pope and such to those who argue those points… These are not points of interest for me so I wouldn’t know where to direct you…

As for altar calls, you even quoted me in my explanation… if you don’t accept it then that is on you…

 

[Mommyof02green]

As I have said before… but of course I am ignored… Just look at John the Baptist when he told people to come down and be baptized to make a PUBLIC profession of Faith…

I’ve always thought of John the Baptist calling on people to make a PUBLIC confession, to repent of their sins. (Mathew chapter 3).

That is pretty much what an altar call is in my understanding…

So are you saying that:

Public profession of faith = Public Confession?

 

[Singinbeauty]

So are you saying that:

Public profession of faith = Public Confession?

Sorry 'bout that… where you said ‘confession’ I read ‘profession’ LOL… Can we say just got home from work!

But it is a sort of confession though isn’t it? The confession that you have been trying to do things on your own and you realize and confess that you are a sinful being and need something bigger than yourself. You might not know what He is yet but you confess that you need Him because on your own it does not work…

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve always thought of John the Baptist calling on people to make a PUBLIC confession, to repent of their sins. (Mathew chapter 3).

That is pretty much what an altar call is in my understanding…

Do they confess their sins to the whole congregation, or only to the minister who greets them when they go up for their altar call?

 

[Harland]

First off, you do realize I am Catholic, yes?

Second, all eyes are not on you in the manner you seem to think. Most people have their eyes closed and are praying for others at this time. It is not as if everyone is watching and clapping for a person. This is a very intense time of prayer for everyone sincerely involved at this.

Third, it is humbling because even though people may not see you go up, they certainly will see you when it is all over. So you have just publicly admitted to grave sin in front of all. Although I was not in a OSAS church, I can only imagine how much worse it would be. Do you swallow your pride and admit that you were not saved when you were ten? Or do you let the prompting of the Holy Spirit go and go to hell?

Even in the churches that do believe one can lose their salvation, like the ones I went to, you go up because the Holy Spirit is convicting of sin. This is the exact same feeling I get today when I know I need to go to confession, only intensified because one has to step out on their own. There are no group reconcilliation services where a bunch of people get together to recieve the sacrament of penance. There is no line of people waiting to go to confession.

You are all by yourself, publicly standing up, and declaring you are in grave sin. Or worse, you are not in grave sin, but you feel convicted to go up front out of obeidience to God who is prompting you to do so. And everyone THINKS you are in grave sin.

As for theatrics, the only theatrics may be on part of the minister, but it certainly is not present in those going forward. Emotion laden? Yes.

Well since you were the one who first brought up with a sarcastic roll of the eyes that it was another apostolic tradition ignored, I guess you are the one that needs to answer this question.

I was simply pointing out your sarcasm was unfounded. While many churches who have altar calls worry about churches who don’t, I personally have never met a church that felt it was unbiblical not to do so, although I have no doubt that there are who have convinced themselves of this point, but I sincerely doubt that all have done so.

Chapter and verse that people should repent, and since altar calls are sometimes a precursor to baptism, repent and be baptized? You are kidding right?

Unfortunately, I think you are for some reason, angry that anyone could suggest that altar calls are a genuine work of the Holy Spirit rather than just some theatrical circus by emotion laden people. I do however admit that I could be wrong about you. Can you admit that you could be wrong as well as to the motives, reasons as well as biblicalness of altar calls which are at the most basic, calling people to repentance?

Just in case you weren’t kidding here is the scripture that talk of repentance (and baptism). While I can clearly understand that there is no apostolic tradition to support the manner and form, we are talking of people who have no concept of apostolic tradition, and for the most part, are not “protesting” anything.

Acts 2:37-38
Mk 6:12
Lk 5:32
Lk 13:5
Lk 24:47

Do I really need all the verses that tell us to repent, much less the ones that link baptism and repentance?

I’m sorry for being so dense, but how does repenting and being baptized equal Alter Call?

As far as I know, during Jesus’ time the only alter the Jews recognized was in the Temple in Jerusalem and that Alter could only be approached by the High Priest and that was only once a year.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Sorry 'bout that… where you said ‘confession’ I read ‘profession’ LOL… Can we say just got home from work!

It’s okay! It happens to all of us!

That’s why I thought I would ask, just to be sure I understood you right.

But it is a sort of confession though isn’t it? The confession that you have been trying to do things on your own and you realize and confess that you are a sinful being and need something bigger than yourself. You might not know what He is yet but you confess that you need Him because on your own it does not work…

Well, I know that from personal experience that we need to hand ourselves over to God and allow HIM to work in our lives.

However I believe that people will know this based on how I live my life. People will know based on what I say and do day in and day out. Did I visit the sick? Was I there to listen to my friend? Did I give shelter to those that needed it when I could? Did I tell people about God and what He has done for me? I’m a forgiving person? The questions I asked myself are endless. They all boil down to can people tell that I’m a Christian, a follower of Christ, 24/7? Or is it something that can be only seen if I do an “alter call”?

I was listening to Catholic Radio recently and I heard something like this:
Most people when they pray the Our Father do not mean the words. What was meant by that?

Well think about it: “Thy will be done, in earth as it is in Heaven”
How many of us really want God’s will be done?? Do we honestly pray asking God to lead us and allow His will be done? Or do we want “our will” to be done? How often do we say but God I want to do this? Or but I want that? We praise God when things go the way we want, but curse God if it doesn’t.

Think about it: “And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those that trespass against us.” What are we saying? We are saying God forgive us as we forgive those around us. In other words If I hold a grudge against my neighbor then God you hold a grudge against me. We are asking God to only give us the mercy that we are willing to give others.

So for me I guess I try to make a public profession of faith everyday and not just at a special event such as an “alter call”

As for a public confession: I see nothing wrong with publicly confessing my sins. I try to admit to those around me that I’m wrong and ask for forgiveness. Of course I may not do it immediately. It may take me a few days to admit to myself that I was wrong.

I also make a public confession at Mass every Sunday with these words: I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord, our God.

As you can see confession to me is admitting that I am a sinner and also admitting what sins I have commited. In a public confession I will not list them all, but I can make a general statement saying that I sinned “in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do”.

Admitting that you are sinner and publicly confessing your actual sins is what I see John the Baptist calling on people to do in Mathew Chapter 3.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

IChapter and verse that people should repent, and since altar calls are sometimes a precursor to baptism, repent and be baptized

Just in case you weren’t kidding here is the scripture that talk of repentance (and baptism). While I can clearly understand that there is no apostolic tradition to support the manner and form, we are talking of people who have no concept of apostolic tradition, and for the most part, are not “protesting” anything.

Acts 2:37-38
Mk 6:12
Lk 5:32
Lk 13:5
Lk 24:47

THANK YOU For the other things you said and I had heard the term protestant from yrs ago, I thought it was some old time classification and had no idea what it meant. Only when I came here did I actually find out what exactly it meant.

 

[dawgfan]

Actually, I don’t hold much credence with what Wikipedia has to say. It can be altered (pardon the pun) by anyone who logs on.
Here’s what good ol’ Websters says:

1 : a usually raised structure or place on which sacrifices are offered or incense is burned in worship — often used figuratively to describe a thing given great or undue precedence or value especially at the cost of something else sacrificed his family life on the altar of career advancement
2 : a table on which the eucharistic elements are consecrated or which serves as a center of worship or ritual

Actually the Wikipedia entry I used is not incorrect. Otherwise I wouldn’t have used it.

But how’s this instead since you found your own definition?

Citation from
American Heritage Dictionary

1. An elevated place or structure before which religious ceremonies may be enacted or upon which sacrifices may be offered.
2. A structure, typically a table, before which the divine offices are recited and upon which the Eucharist is celebrated in Christian churches.

I think we both agree about what the altar should be used for but my original response was to counter your statement…

I always thought that Protestants rejected the notion of having an altar in the first place?

Just remember not all protestants are the same.

 

[djrakowski]

I’ve attended two different non-denominational evangelical churches (one of which had roots in an independent Baptist tradition), and an evangelical Lutheran-Missouri Synod church, and none of them did anything remotely like an altar call.

When we were worshipping at the evangelical-former-Baptist church, there was an invitation to accept Christ at the end of nearly every service. People in the seats were asked to raise their hands if they were interested in accepting Christ, but there didn’t seem to be much follow-up on those decisions. They invited those who had just made decisions to receive Christ to come forward after service for prayer and counseling, but I can’t imagine that such a session in a few minutes after a church service was very deep.

When my wife and I decided to join this church, we were required to meet with one of the elders to discuss our commitment to Christ. If they determined that our commitment was real and sincere, they would recommend to the pastor that we should be baptized and admitted for membership. Still, the interview with the elders was perfunctory, and if you answered their really basic questions with any amount of zeal, they believed you. I always thought it would’ve been easy to fool them, considering that their questions were just surface-level, “have you accepted Christ? when did you accept Christ?”

The preaching in this church was rather solid, but it didn’t emphasize the need for continuing conversion. This was a “once-saved-always-saved” church, and the only reason given for doing good works was to bring others to Christ, not to remain in God’s grace.

The strangest thing was that we were never questioned about our initial commitment to Christ at that meeting with the elders, but later on, after our children developed autism and we started attending another church, we lost nearly all of our friends because they thought we were being punished for some horrible sins, and that we weren’t fully committed Christians. That’s when we started looking into conversion to the Catholic Church, and the rest is history.

BTW, Singinbeauty, it’s been a while since we’ve talked! Drop me a note to let me know how things are going!

 

[elvisman]

Actually the Wikipedia entry I used is not incorrect. Otherwise I wouldn’t have used it.

But how’s this instead since you found your own definition?

Citation from
American Heritage Dictionary

1. An elevated place or structure before which religious ceremonies may be enacted or upon which sacrifices may be offered.
2. A structure, typically a table, before which the divine offices are recited and upon which the Eucharist is celebrated in Christian churches.

I think we both agree about what the altar should be used for but my original response was to counter your statement…

Just remember not all protestants are the same.

I hear ya, Dawg!
BUT - all Protestants ARE united in their rejection of the Catholic Church as Jesus’ one true Church.

 

[Cat]

I’m having a hard time with a “conflict” about “altar/alter” calls or “invitations.”

God knows the heart.

There are many people who “go forward” who don’t mean it and there are those who do mean it. But everyone who goes forward has some intention of making some kind of commitment to God or to someone else (maybe they are going forward to please their parents). It doesn’t matter. God will work in their lives. The altar/alter call is just another beginning. At least they were in church instead of home watching WWE on TV.

It’s the same thing in the Catholic Church. I’m sure there are many who go forward for Holy Communion who are thinking about the ball game, but God will still work in their lives.

Going forward publicly to make a commitment to God is a good thing, not a bad thing. Right? Even if it’s not a “perfect contrition,” it’s still better than no contrition, right?

I do think that some of the Protestant altar calls are drawn out and that the pastors exploit the emotions of the congregation by using music, lights, dramatic language, and time (people get hungry and tired standing there, and these bodily feelings can confuse thought patterns). But I know people who went forward in emotional altar calls who really did experience a changed relationship with God or man afterward.

So like I said, God knows the heart. We don’t.

 

[MariaG]

I’m sorry for being so dense, but how does repenting and being baptized equal Alter Call?

As far as I know, during Jesus’ time the only alter the Jews recognized was in the Temple in Jerusalem and that Alter could only be approached by the High Priest and that was only once a year.

You are speaking as someone who has access to the beautiful and rich Tradition of the Church.

We are speaking of people who only have scripture.

Scripture tells us to repent and be baptized, but does not get into many specifics. We do see however, how Peter et al, preached, people repented, and were baptized.

An altar call follows the same premise. The pastor preaches, people repent and ususally are baptized, either then or at sometime in the future when they have access to a river or tank.

As well as the fact, Christians are not under the old Jewish Law. (not refering to the ten commandments when I refer to law here)

 

[MariaG]

THANK YOU For the other things you said and I had heard the term protestant from yrs ago, I thought it was some old time classification and had no idea what it meant. Only when I came here did I actually find out what exactly it meant.

:tiphat: You are welcome!

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

I hear ya, Dawg!
BUT - all Protestants ARE united in their rejection of the Catholic Church as Jesus’ one true Church.

Respectfully, most non-Catholic Christians, at least the ones who are in the pews who actually have altar calls, don’t even think about the Catholic Church at all. If they do, it is just as another denomination, or as a cult like JW’s and Mormons.

Sadly, they do not even think about history or look at the Early Church Fathers.

Today, while there ARE Protestants in the fact that they are protesting AGAINST the Catholic Church, there also are many non-Catholic Christians, who through no fault of their own, do not know that the Catholic Church is Jesus’ one true Church, and are protesting nothing.

God Bless,
Maria