Alter girls - an abuse?

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If I’m right - then I think that is the view of traditionalists.

My understanding is that girls should not serve unless there is exceptional and genuine difficulties in recruiting male servers.

This view has put me in a bit of a bind because my oldest daughter has just joined a training programme in our parish for servers, and I feel so very very proud of her.

She has done this of her own valition, and I have not the heart to lecture her on the traditional view.

I am actually incredibly proud of her - the masses she serves at will obviously be the NO form - but I think it’s wonderful that she has felt motivated to be involved in this way.

And yet it sits uncomfortably with a part of me that wants to uphold and respect tradition and proper good practices.
 
Well, traditionally altar boys were only boys so that he could spend time with priests, get to know the Mass better, and thus consider a vocation to the priesthood. Being an altar server was serious business- memorizing, intricate rubrics, etc.

At present, altar servers don’t (usually, in my experience) have much of a special bond with the priest anymore, because there isn’t a big time investment in becoming an altar server so anyone can do it- I learned to altar serve for the NO in an hour with my cousin and at the time we were both for all intents and purposes non-Catholics just looking for something to do. Now I am an altar server for the EF, and so much more is required- studying, studying, studying those rubrics- that you naturally put a lot more pride and purpose into your serving; many, many altar servers were inspired to become priests in this way.

Sorry for the tangent. If I were you I’d tell my daughter to get involved in something else, but it won’t be a catastrophe if you don’t.
 
Let your daughter be your daughter.

If a daughter of mine had the faith and dedication to do this of her own volition, I would never stand in her way.

Traditionalism, as many here would define it, is a certain mindset, a lens to look through. If she does not have that “lens”, you should not try to impose it on her.

Kids are fragile things. Better a good OF Catholic than a typical child or teenager who could care less about the faith.

Please–don’t squash this!
 
By the way, above poster is correct. Altar Girls are in no way an abuse as long as the Bishop permits it.

This is a very dangerous place to get liturgical or theological views. Lots of confusion. Many scream abuse; but it is allowed by the Vatican, as long as it is allowed by the Bishop.

I’d be proud of her too!

I’ll say a prayer for you both.
 
If I’m right - then I think that is the view of traditionalists.

My understanding is that girls should not serve unless there is exceptional and genuine difficulties in recruiting male servers.

This view has put me in a bit of a bind because my oldest daughter has just joined a training programme in our parish for servers, and I feel so very very proud of her.

She has done this of her own valition, and I have not the heart to lecture her on the traditional view.

I am actually incredibly proud of her - the masses she serves at will obviously be the NO form - but I think it’s wonderful that she has felt motivated to be involved in this way.

And yet it sits uncomfortably with a part of me that wants to uphold and respect tradition and proper good practices.
For the normative Pauline Mass, it’s certainly not an abuse to have a female serve. While it’s praiseworthy to have males serve who just might be discerning a call to the priesthood or diaconate, the Church does not even hint at the notion that female servers should only not be used “unless there is exceptional and genuine difficulties in recruiting male servers.”

I have even heard of females serving EF Masses. I don’t happen to know if that’s licit or not.
 
I would steer your daughter into other ways to serve the Church. Your daughter sounds wonderful. I’m sure she’ll understand the Church’s ancient tradition if explained to her. There are countless other ways she can work for the Church.

In Sept. 2006, Fr. Greg J. Markey, a parish priest at St. Mary’s Church in Norwalk, CT changed his policy to male-only altar servers. (This was back when there was only the Ordinary Form of the Mass!) He wrote a letter to his parishioners, which I thought was so well articulated, that I would post it here as well. He had taken a lot of heat for his decision when announced but not so much anymore. Please pray for brave priests like him!

Here is his letter;
stmarynorwalk.net/faqbox.html

Q: “Why does St. Mary’s reserve altar serving to boys alone?”

.
.
by Fr. Greg J. Markey
"Perhaps the most serious practical problem facing the Catholic Church in the United States today is the lack of priestly vocations. Without priests we do not have the Sacraments, and without the Sacraments, our salvation is in jeopardy.

It is God who mysteriously calls young men to be priests, and then the surrounding culture, most specifically good Catholic families, bring that seed to fruition. Outside of the family, one of the most important cultural influences that promotes priestly vocations is to serve as an altar boy.

For thousands of years serving as an altar boy has been an apprenticeship for priesthood, even before the Church had seminaries. Boys were taught the details of the Mass, why the priest does what he does, and a fraternal bond of trust grew between the boys and the priest. The result was that many a priest discovered his calling while serving as an altar boy.

In 1994 Rome allowed girls to serve as altar servers for the first time. The document states that priests are not compelled to have altar girls, but may have them “for specific local reasons”. As we know most parishes here in the U.S. decided to have altar girls in order to get them involved, or to show the Church’s openness to “equal opportunity”.

Nonetheless there were some unforeseen results to this permission that have caused many priests to now question the wisdom of this decision. While equal opportunity is a noble sentiment, the bond between priest and the boys has now been lessened. A strong fraternity of altar boys in close association with the priest is indispensable in inviting young men to meaningful consideration of a priestly vocation. There is also a certain awkwardness in teaching girls to take pride in a job that will never come to fruition, since they will never be able to become priests.

When I went back and read the document I noticed that it also made numerous statements supporting the continued use of altar boys: “At the same time, however, the Holy See wishes to recall that it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar. As is well known, this has led to a reassuring development of priestly vocations. Thus the obligation to support such groups of altar boys will always continue.”

Pope John Paul II in 2004 accordingly encouraged priests to show a special concern for altar boys, saying that they “represent a kind of ‘garden’ of priestly vocations” and that their service at the altar can be “a valuable experience of Christian education and become a kind of pre-seminary”.

Therefore after much prayer, reading and discussion, I have decided that in the future we will only be inviting boys to serve as altar servers, for the primary reason of promoting priestly vocations. Those girls who are currently serving are welcome to continue serving as long as they like. Finally, so as to encourage the participation of the girls in the parish, I will be starting a group called the Handmaids of the Altar, who will help with the flowers, the linens, and the sacristy. As Sister Eileen and Sr. Rita pointed out, both of them discerned their vocations to the sisterhood by belonging to this type of club.

For some this is a decision which will be difficult to understand. Certainly the spirit of the society in which we live will not accept this. Yet this has nothing to do with equal rights. Men and women are equal in the eyes of God, and each has different gifts which should be allowed to develop in their proper environment.

Experience has shown that women generally do not need as much encouragement to be involved in the Church. All you have to do is look at Sunday Mass attendance, the religious education teachers, or parish volunteers, and one will easily notice that the majority of people active in parish life are women.

However, I think that boys and men need special encouragement to help them develop a lifelong relationship with Jesus Christ and the Church. Therefore having a group of boys set apart will help develop that bond with the Church, preparing them for their vocation, whatever it may be.

If anyone has difficulty with this decision I ask you to reflect on what I have written here and to pray about it. You are welcome to write or visit me to voice your concerns. You can also contact Deacon Steve Genovese who is in charge of the altar servers. My motivation here is to try to do what is right for the Church.

May our Lady, whose son is the eternal high priest, pray for the boys of St. Mary Church, that we may all be here one day to witness of the first Mass of one of our altar boys.

Sincerely in Christ,

Fr. Greg J. Markey
Pastor

and also read:

ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/ALTBYHOM.TXT
 
For the normative Pauline Mass, it’s certainly not an abuse to have a female serve. While it’s praiseworthy to have males serve who just might be discerning a call to the priesthood or diaconate, the Church does not even hint at the notion that female servers should only not be used “unless there is exceptional and genuine difficulties in recruiting male servers.”

I have even heard of females serving EF Masses. I don’t happen to know if that’s licit or not.
It is an abuse in the TLM- an English Bishop recently told the Latin Mass Society that he would only allow the TLM in his cathedral if they used at least one female altar server. The LMS declined and thus the months spent in anticipation for that scheduled Solemn High Mass were in vain- I understand many people traveled hours to get there only to hear what happened. Why the Bishop would insist on that is beyond me
 
I would be happy that your daughter wants to serve Christ. Unfortunately she or others like her will be used to subvert the faith and promote female ordination. This is the whole reason behind female altar servers.

Those who promote it do not like the male Priesthood and want to destroy it. You should see my parish, female priests are promoted and there is no hiding the relation between the desire for female priests and the symbolism given by having girls serve.

That being said, as the Father of two girls I understand the spiritual well being of your daughter is at stake and we should always applaud any desire to serve Christ. This is a good thing especially when so many kids do not want to serve. So it is a delicate situation.

My daughters know that girls shouldn’t serve as we need Priests and we should support the Priesthood of Christ in every single way. If having altar boys promotes just one vocation in a parish that is better than having that vocation squashed by those who seek to kill vocations and not have enough Priests.

They have done a pretty good job in the last 40 or so years to kill vocations and discourage young men from becoming Priests.

Keep supporting your daughter in the Catholic faith and seek to have her support the Priesthood of Christ. She might serve and eventually serve in other ways later. She is allowed to serve and is not sinning in doing it out of love of Christ. We shouldn’t discourage a persons desire to serve but guide it to a faithful promotion of the Catholic faith and the needs of the Church.

In Christ
Scylla
 
Unfortunately she or others like her will be used to subvert the faith and promote female ordination. This is the whole reason behind female altar servers.

In Christ
Scylla
What Church teaching, document, or anecdotal proof do you have for a far reaching, broad-brushed claim such as this?
 
I would be happy that your daughter wants to serve Christ. Unfortunately she or others like her will be used to subvert the faith and promote female ordination. This is the whole reason behind female altar servers.
That’s a rather biased opinion with nothing truly factual backing it up. What if being an altar girl actually helps a girl to be more connected with the Church and helps encourage her to become a nun? Or to help bring back deaconesses?

That there are people out there using altar girls as a reason to promote female ordination does NOT mean that it’s “the whole reason behind female altar servers.” That’s backwards logic unless you have some proof to show that the desire to subvert is the direct cause of allowing female altar servers.
 
That’s a rather biased opinion with nothing truly factual backing it up. What if being an altar girl actually helps a girl to be more connected with the Church and helps encourage her to become a nun?*** Or to help bring back deaconesses?***
That is why females should not be altar servers
 
Its bigotry to follow Church teaching that only women can validly be ordained in any capacity? Spare your insults, please.
 
“Pope Gelasius in his ninth letter (chap. 26) to the bishops of Lucania condemned the evil practice which had been introduced of women serving the priest at the celebration of Mass. Since this abuse had spread to the Greeks, Innocent IV strictly forbade it in his letter to the bishop of Tusculum: “Women should not dare to serve at the altar; they should be altogether refused this ministry.” We too have forbidden this practice in the same words in Our oft-repeated constitution Etsi Pastoralis, sect. 6, no. 21.”

-Pope Benedict XIV
 
That’s a rather biased opinion with nothing truly factual backing it up. What if being an altar girl actually helps a girl to be more connected with the Church and helps encourage her to become a nun? Or to help bring back deaconesses?.
I can agree that God can bring good out of even poor or misapplied actions. That doesn’t make the action right or good.
The main reason we have boys serve is to promote vocations to the Priesthood and that is the sole domain of Men.

The faith for girls can be promoted and encouraged with altar guild societies, rosary guilds and organizations for girls. Women serve Christ in different ways than men when they are consecrated to Christ.

Deaconesses were used to help baptize women when they were baptized naked, this is not necessary anymore. They were never ordained.
That there are people out there using altar girls as a reason to promote female ordination does NOT mean that it’s “the whole reason behind female altar servers.” That’s backwards logic unless you have some proof to show that the desire to subvert is the direct cause of allowing female altar servers.
Hmm, so why did people promote altar girls when it was prohibited and then allow them even when it was prohibited.

Here is an article explaining it quite clearly.
rtforum.org/lt/lt88.html

Are you in favor of having deaconesses as in female deacons?

God Bless
Scylla
 
My daughter was an altar server, but no longer will any of my daughters be altar servers. I read a post on these forums where the poster explained at his parish it became a “girly” thing and the boys no longer wanted to do it. I have noticed over the last few years how less and less boys are serving and it is almost exclusivley a girl thing.

IMHO this is not good.
 
From what I understand, it began as an abuse that was allowed as an indult. Similar to standing to receive communion and communion in the hand.

As far as bigotry is concerned, the argument is pointless. Israel, as formed through Divine Revelation, had a male priesthood in a region that had female priestesses (see Jezebel). Also, Christ defied many of the norms of the time, yet still chose male apostles. To say that that is a bias from the authors is to say that Christ was a poor judge of character and choose male chauvinists as his messengers. So it is quite clear that it was intended that the clergy be male. This includes deacons. (If you insist that deaconesses were a rank of clergy, show me the ordination rites or some proof that they were actually a clerical rank and what exactly they did.)

Our sex is not something that ‘evolved’ or ‘just happened’. **It was designed and expressly given to us by the Lord God Himself! ** As such the distinction requires the utmost respect. In that light, to say that men and women are equal in form and function is tantamount to blasphemy. They are equal in dignity before God, but they are not the same creation.

Being an altar boy myself around the time when the indult for altar girls came, I remember vehemently opposing it. It was our duty to serve the priest and it became a point of honor. To allow girls into it weakened the bond between altar boys and the service of the priest. While it is not nearly as involved as it once was, it was still *our *job.

It is nothing against the girls themselves. They are perfectly competent in their job. However, we must remember that one of its primary purposes is to immediately catechize the young men about one of the most serious and solemn duties in the Church.

Nuns do not act as altar servers, nor is their primary vocation based around the service of the altar. As such the argument toward those vocations is very weak. It would be better for them to serve in a ministry that is shared by Sisters of a given order; even better to assist the Sisters directly.
 
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