Alter Girls

[oldcatholicguy]

It is so funny that you posted this thread, as I was just getting ready to talk about this on here.

I went to morning mass on Thursday and it was a school mass for the parish’s Catholic grade school. I love this Church - they promote a lot of good things, both priests are very solid and conservative and not afraid to give homlies on the tougher subjects (attire at Mass, real presence of Christ, contraception, etc.)
I’m sorry, but I don’t see how attire at Mass is any where near the level of importance as the other two subject matters.

But there on the altar were two altar servers…both girls. I am a female and I am offended when two grade school girls come to serve morning Mass and then dress in altar server’s cassok (not sure if this is what they are called - the black and the white overlay). Why am I offended? Because the feminist movement has *destroyed * femininity.
You seem to have an issue with the neo-feminist movement, but mention that you are female. As if that gives you some special status on this subject matter, or as if you your opinion should have more “weight” in the discussion than a man’s does. I’m sorry that sounds rather neo-feminist to me. (for clarification I use the term neo-feminist to denote the secular feminist movement which seems to want to reduce women to “male, version 2”)

There was a young man (guy from my youth group) who was cross-bearer at Mass on Thursday morning. But besides the entrance and exit procession, he was not involved in altar serving, because this position was taken care of by the girls. It also frustrates me to know that there were mutliple school age boys from the grade school who could have served at Mass.
You are assuming that the presence of girl altar servers is scaring off all the boys (“girls are icky”) and ignoring the possiblity that the boys may actually not want to be altar servers (like my son who has no interest in doing it).

Is there a place for women on the altar? Yes. As cantors. As readers. But not as altar servers, priests, or deacons.
Which is fine if you understand that that is simply your opinion. I feel that priests should be able to get married. The Church (the people who know what they are talking about) says no. Case closed. Take my opinion and a couple bucks and you can get buy a priest a cup of coffee. Don’t expect to see me at a “priests should be allowed to get married” rally. Or anywhere near one.

How can we as Catholics say NO to women ordination (I strongly oppose women ordination) and then say YES to girl altar servers? It seems very hypocritcal to me.
Apples and oranges, unless I missed the fact that altar servers are now classifed by the Church as clergy.

I don’t understand how we think that this fosters a vocation in a young woman’s life. She cannot grow up and be a priest. If she responds to a religious vocation as a sister, the duties and life of a religious sister are not duties prepared for by serving as an altarserver.
So serving at Mass as an altar server has nothing to do with serving or loving God or wishing to be closer to Him? That’s what you are basically saying. The primary vocation of a sister or nun isn’t to be a teacher with a ruler, its to serve God.

Also, when girls are allowed to serve, the boys leave. In my home parish, we only have boy altar servers. That’s it. When you take away the privlege of altar serving and make it available to girls, the boys quit. So we are left with girls serving in a place where boy’s vocations are supposed to be encouraged…leaving us with little to no vocations.

So the reason we have such a small number of men entering vocations is because of girl altar servers? Not the failure of these men’s parents to see that they are fully educated in the Faith, not the failure of these men to fully embrace the Faith, not the destruction of a strong family life and moral values by our corrupting society and culture? It’s all really due to girls serving as altar servers? I disagree.

Sorry for the rant, it was just something that really upset me yesterday morning.
What upsets me are people who think they know better than their priests. Your entire post pretty much boils down to “My parish priests are great, except they allow girls to be altar servers; and we all know that this is wrong even though the Church says girls can be altar servers. We really need to get that changed because we (the non subject matter experts) really know what is right and therefore we need to correct the Church (the subject matter expert whose boss just happens to be God).”

Bottom line, the Church allows it. Case closed.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I have seen multiple threads about altar girls and I was curious… why is having altar girls such a big thing?

Apparently girl altar servers are-
-tools of the neo-feminist movement that will lead to female priests and the downfall of the Church
-the reason male vocations are down
-somehow an affront to God
-wrong even though the Church says otherwise
-proof that “modernists” and liberals have taken over and that the Church is doomed

I’m sure I’ve missed a couple other reasons that are usually thrown around on these types of threads.

 

[Angelsflight]

Old Catholic Guy…you are awesome!

All your replies cracked me up!

 

[Angelsflight]

I am the father of 2 altar servers - my son is 15, and my daughter is 13. I am also involved in the training of altar servers in the parish.

As mentioned previously in this thread, boys and girls of this age are quite different (in general) when committing to altar serving. Having my son altar serve is like pulling teeth. He is still scheduled to altar serve a couple times a month, but he would rather not if he had a choice.

My daughter, on the other hand, would serve every week if possible, and she checks before every Mass we attend to see if there are enough altar servers present so she can serve if a scheduled altar server does not show up.

From the altar server training that I run, I can confirm, as a previous poster mentioned, the girls are much more organized, timely, etc. Most of the boys are there because they have to be. The girls truly seem to want to be there.

Again, these are generalities, and will not be true for all.

My daughter couldn’t wait to become an altar server, and she has truly blossomed into a wonderful Catholic girl. For example: when she was in the 4th grade at our local Catholic School, she had befriended an older nun who was extremely active in the missions. My daughter, after receiving nearly $100 for her birthday gifts from family, wanted to give it all to the missions. We talked about it, how noble it was for her to think that way, etc. We also mentioned that the money was given to her for her to get something for herself; but if she wanted to give it to the missions, she could. She ended up settling on giving the missions half of her money, and saving the other half for something she may want. The sister she befriended asked out family to attend the Diocesan ceremony where her school was awarded the top prize for fundraising for the missions for the 8th year in a row. My daughter was glowing throughout the day.

My son would never have even considered the missions. Different people. Different attitudes. Different priorities.

Back to altar serving - the Pope said OK. If the Bishop says OK and the Pastor says OK, and the priest offering Mass says OK, who are we to say “No”? Why is this such a bad thing? Sure altar serving can lead to vocations in boys. Most of the vocations for boys in our Diocese are from boys who were altar servers. That seems to make logical sense though, since most boys that are “good” Catholics are altar servers at that age; whether they all want to be or not

My daughter know full well she cannot become a Priest or Deacon. That doesn’t mean that she shouldn’t be an altar server. She gets truly excited to attend Mass when she is serving, and she looks forward to the possibility of an absent server when she is not scheduled. She looks forward to serving in any way possible. We have numerous past female altar servers now serving as Lectors in our parish.

Isn’t that what we want from our young people - the desire to serve God and His People. I am sure that altar serving has made her MUCH closer to God and her faith!

Mike, your daughter sounds like a true gem! The story of her giving half her birthday money to charity was astounding!

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Old Catholic Guy…you are awesome!

All your replies cracked me up!

My daughter’s reasoning on why girls can’t be priests- “You can’t call a girl Father. That would be silly.”

 

[minkymurph]

Apparently girl altar servers are-
-tools of the neo-feminist movement that will lead to female priests and the downfall of the Church
-the reason male vocations are down
-somehow an affront to God
-wrong even though the Church says otherwise
-proof that “modernists” and liberals have taken over and that the Church is doomed

I’m sure I’ve missed a couple other reasons that are usually thrown around on these types of threads.

What happened to, ‘the gates of Hell will not prevail against it?’

 

[Angelsflight]

Apparently girl altar servers are-
-tools of the neo-feminist movement that will lead to female priests and the downfall of the Church
-the reason male vocations are down
-somehow an affront to God
-wrong even though the Church says otherwise
-proof that “modernists” and liberals have taken over and that the Church is doomed

I’m sure I’ve missed a couple other reasons that are usually thrown around on these types of threads.

I just dont think having altar girls is a big deal. They are there to serve God, not take anything away from the boys. And from the sound of it, lots of boys dont want to serve, or dont have time to serve…etc. So, what would happen if we did take altar girls out and there were no boys that wanted to. Who would do it then? Is it better if no one serves and the priest does it all?

Its not even just this topic that confuses me. I see so much stuff on other threads that astounds me.

“The priest is wearing red vestments today when he should be wearing green!. I am going to tell the bishop about this!”

“People are holding hands through the Our Father! I am going to tell the Bishop about this!”

“We are singing the wrong hymn today! We should be singing the other song! I am going to tell the Bishop about this!”

I personally would never tell a priest how to do his job. Never ever ever. He knows canon law better than I ever will in this lifetime. I will not question him, or the church.

And I truly do not care about whether the lady in aisle 2 is wearing open toed sandals, or the guy 2 rows in front of me is wearing a hat. Or who is in line for Eucharist that “looks like” they may be in mortal sin, or should not be there for whatever reason. I do not care if people hold hands through the Our Father. I go alone, so I hold hands with no one, and I probably would not if I went with someone, but i really don’t care if others do it. Its not my concern really.

I just go to mass, listen to what the priest has to say, take the Eucharist, and spend time with my lord. That is all I am there for. I am not there to judge the parishioners or the church. Thats just me though.

Went off topic a bit, sorry!

 

[oldcatholicguy]

What happened to, ‘the gates of Hell will not prevail against it?’

Apparently the Church can withstand immoral popes (like Alexander VI), and secular empires, states, and socities bent on its destruction, but is completely helpless in regards to little girls.

 

[minkymurph]

I have read the argument on the many threads on this topic numerous times, having female altar servers prevents boys from wanting to do it, and entering the priesthood - or words to that effect.

What about the counter-argument - that it’s not a case of the girls stopping the boys but a case of boys not wanting to do it in first instance, and the reason girls have been permitted to serve at the altar in some parishes is because the boys don’t want to do it?

 

[minkymurph]

Apparently the Church can withstand immoral popes (like Alexander VI), and secular empires, states, and socities bent on its destruction, but is completely helpless in regards to little girls.

So, the Church can withstand the gates of Hell but not little girls?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

So, the Church can withstand the gates of Hell but not little girls?

That’s what I surmize from some of these statements made against girl altar servers. I don’t buy into it, but I’d have to assume some people do.

 

[LaMusicaSenior]

Tracing altar serving back…I do have questions on historical-ness of female altar servers. I know my mother grew up in the 1970’s and there were no female altar servers.

Was the movement to allow altar servers who are female because there were not enough boys to serve at Mass? If this was so, how come there was no problem before this movement in the quanity of boys who were able to serve?

So was this movement out of neccesity or out of a push for equality (like pointed out, man, version 2)

Men and women are different - praise God! Viva La Difference! And God has created us as such.

And it really comes down to a matter of personal opnion - just like people not liking guitars in Mass, etc.

But by appreciating God’s distinct roles for male and female, and seeing the priestly vocation is a masculine vocation, I think that should be filled by a male, and imitated by young men.

On a side note, there was a thought about my feelings having more “weight” I believe was misinterpreted. I mentioned the fact that I was a female because I feel that some would group me into a belief that I am ok with female altar servers because I am female and I am young. I simply mentioned the fact that I am female becuase it might carry significance that I am not for the feminist movement - I’m not bashing my own gender, but stating my more traditional opinions.

 

[minkymurph]

That’s what I surmize from some of these statements made against girl altar servers. I don’t buy into it, but I’d have to assume some people do.

I would find it difficult to buy into that one myself.

 

[Seeker1961]

I just dont think having altar girls is a big deal. They are there to serve God, not take anything away from the boys. And from the sound of it, lots of boys dont want to serve, or dont have time to serve…etc. So, what would happen if we did take altar girls out and there were no boys that wanted to. Who would do it then? Is it better if no one serves and the priest does it all?

Its not even just this topic that confuses me. I see so much stuff on other threads that astounds me.

“The priest is wearing red vestments today when he should be wearing green!. I am going to tell the bishop about this!”

“People are holding hands through the Our Father! I am going to tell the Bishop about this!”

“We are singing the wrong hymn today! We should be singing the other song! I am going to tell the Bishop about this!”

I personally would never tell a priest how to do his job. Never ever ever. He knows canon law better than I ever will in this lifetime. I will not question him, or the church.

And I truly do not care about whether the lady in aisle 2 is wearing open toed sandals, or the guy 2 rows in front of me is wearing a hat. Or who is in line for Eucharist that “looks like” they may be in mortal sin, or should not be there for whatever reason. I do not care if people hold hands through the Our Father. I go alone, so I hold hands with no one, and I probably would not if I went with someone, but i really don’t care if others do it. Its not my concern really.

I just go to mass, listen to what the priest has to say, take the Eucharist, and spend time with my lord. That is all I am there for. I am not there to judge the parishioners or the church. Thats just me though.

Went off topic a bit, sorry!

me too! Honestly, after 5 years away I’m just so happy to be back that nothing anyone around me does really upsets me. I could do with a little less chatting in the sanctuary-but that’s only because I have ONE day a week to pray before the Blessed Sacrament and would like to do that in a quieter setting. What the people in the pews beside me are wearing, whether they hold hands during the Our Father or do the whole Touchdown Jesus sign is immaterial to me.

As far as the altar girls, as long as they serve with respect I have no issue with it. The Church says it’s ok and who am I to argue?

 

[englishredrose]

Altar boys are not necessarily “preferred” and I would suggest that you not approach your priest with that sort of attitude.

Too right. If you want to ask your priest about Altar Girls do so but as a genuine question and he will listen. I’m admittedly Anglican but an Altar Server (female) and someone did complain about me. I know for a fact because I accidently overheard them actually complain about me. Only it wasn’t my gender but my past. The stand in, priest knew more than the situation of my past than the complainer as the complainer weren’t around back then, where as the Priest who was standing in for us in interregnum was around as Dene of the Cathedral at the time of my past considering what it was…so would have known something. His reply was very much an end of discussion reply even enough for me to fear saying that I’d overheard. The current priest does know I overheard that complainer now through some other seperate reason. But priests don’t take too kindly if its just a complaint per se. They will support the Altar Crew as they will support anyone who needs it at that moment.

Altar girls are permitted and are not more or less validly used than boys when the bishop allows and the pastor has decided to use them in his parish.

It is the priest’s decision.

You are not meant to know whether we are female or male or who we are. The gowns are there just like the priest robes to hide our identities as we serve Christ. Its not about who but about that we are serving Christ and when you are taking part in the service fully, quite who is holdling what candle, thruible or crucifix etc is irrelevant for you. I know many probably would prefer a young criminal boy to any kind of girl but what we do away from the Altar is not your concern. The Priest knows what I get upto etc and that all what matters in terms of congregation not being happy about us. He knows where I am exactly spiritually and as a citizen. The congregation needn’t worry about our genders and activities. Leave it to the Priest and God. But there are many an anglican who think just like you and it should be left to the boys. God isn’t interested iin our genders but our souls etc…

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Tracing altar serving back…I do have questions on historical-ness of female altar servers. I know my mother grew up in the 1970’s and there were no female altar servers.

Was the movement to allow altar servers who are female because there were not enough boys to serve at Mass? If this was so, how come there was no problem before this movement in the quanity of boys who were able to serve?

So was this movement out of neccesity or out of a push for equality (like pointed out, man, version 2)

Men and women are different - praise God! Viva La Difference! And God has created us as such.

And it really comes down to a matter of personal opnion - just like people not liking guitars in Mass, etc.

But by appreciating God’s distinct roles for male and female, and seeing the priestly vocation is a masculine vocation, I think that should be filled by a male, and imitated by young men.

On a side note, there was a thought about my feelings having more “weight” I believe was misinterpreted. I mentioned the fact that I was a female because I feel that some would group me into a belief that I am ok with female altar servers because I am female and I am young. I simply mentioned the fact that I am female becuase it might carry significance that I am not for the feminist movement - I’m not bashing my own gender, but stating my more traditional opinions.

I don’t know how girls being allowed to be altar servers came about; and it really doesn’t matter. The Church said it’s allowed. That’s all that really matters for us non-religous non-theologians. Anything outside of “allowed” or “not allowed” is above our paygrade.

As to the “weight” comment, our genders have no role in this discussion. The idea that gender somehow plays a role in it comes from the whole “men vs. women” approach used by neo-feminists. Saying “I’m a woman and don’t think girls should be altar servers” or “of course you think girls should be altar servers, you’re a woman” only serves to empower the false arguments presented by the neo-feminists. It does so by reducing the argument to a gender centered issue, not a God centered issue.

 

[Angelsflight]

You are not meant to know whether we are female or male or who we are. The gowns are there just like the priest robes to hide our identities as we serve Christ. Its not about who but about that we are serving Christ and when you are taking part in the service fully, quite who is holdling what candle, thruible or crucifix etc is irrelevant for you. I know many probably would prefer a young criminal boy to any kind of girl but what we do away from the Altar is not your concern. The Priest knows what I get upto etc and that all what matters in terms of congregation not being happy about us. He knows where I am exactly spiritually and as a citizen. The congregation needn’t worry about our genders and activities. Leave it to the Priest and God. But there are many an anglican who think just like you and it should be left to the boys. God isn’t interested iin our genders but our souls etc…

I am sorry that your past was used as the factor for that complaint. Considering my own past, I am not worthy to even walk through the door at church. But thats why it is called PAST. Its too bad people dont understand that anyone can change. I mean, look at Mary Magdalene. She changed. Why not us?

 

[LaMusicaSenior]

You are not meant to know whether we are female or male or who we are. The gowns are there just like the priest robes to hide our identities as we serve Christ. Its not about who but about that we are serving Christ and when you are taking part in the service fully, quite who is holdling what candle, thruible or crucifix etc is irrelevant for you. I know many probably would prefer a young criminal boy to any kind of girl but what we do away from the Altar is not your concern. The Priest knows what I get upto etc and that all what matters in terms of congregation not being happy about us. He knows where I am exactly spiritually and as a citizen. The congregation needn’t worry about our genders and activities. Leave it to the Priest and God. But there are many an anglican who think just like you and it should be left to the boys. God isn’t interested iin our genders but our souls etc…

But by saying God doesn’t care about our genders, this would go against: “male and female He created them”. God does care about genders, He created us men and women.

This would also condone females as priests because it doesn’t matter the gender, they are just there to serve God - and the Church does not allow female priests.

It is the appreciation and respect of God creating us different, thus having different roles.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

Do they have to wear a head covering while serving a TLM?

 

[dconklin]

At our large parish, the best Altar Servers are girls - including my own daughter. It seems that at this age the girls are better at showing the due reverence this position deserves.