Alter Girls

[Angel_Bradford]

Anybody ever play “careers” when you were a kid? My best friend wanted to be a hairdresser, so she did my hair. My brother wanted to be a chef, so he made something (usually inedible!) in the kitchen.

I wanted to be a priest. LOL. I really and truly did. I would hold a little “mass” in my bedroom with my brother and friend as parishioners. I would take a rolling pin to a slice of bread and then distribute the “host”. Mind you, I was 7 or 8 at the time. At the time I was not sure what nuns were really for, and somebody had to say mass!

I was never an altar server, but I did eventually grow up and realise I could never be a priest. I couldn’t be a priest today even if I were a man. I have too much social anxiety to get up in front of people and speak.

So, even if some little girl does have the desire to be a priest, she will grow out of it.

LOL…When my younger brother was an altar server in the mid 70s, I would put on his cassock and surplice when no one was around just to see what it was like.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

LOL…When my younger brother was an altar server in the mid 70s, I would put on his cassock and surplice when no one was around just to see what it was like.

My brothers were altar servers and I wasn’t allowed…which at the time I didn’t mind…funny…I’m the only one left that is still Catholic.

Interesting how God works…now I’m a sacrastian/ministry coordinator which includes helping during Mass and making sure that the altar servers are doing what they should be doing…

 

[adrift]

Why would he use them in his own mass if he didn’t approve? Yes, he allows it to be a priest’s choice to have girl or boy altar servers, or NO altar servers at all! But if he uses them in his own mass, it seems to me like he approves of them himself, on a personal level.

The Vatican has indicated that girls should not serve at the altar when Mass is celebrated in the extraordinary form.

I question your statement that the Pope uses altar girls. Even if he does you have misunderstood in the first place.Daddygirl seems to suggest that those Bishop’s who do not are going against the Pope. I was pointing out to her that it was the Pope who allowed them the choice.

This article points out that indeed there are fewer boys who serve.

 

[minkymurph]

Oh no no no. They should just not compete at all!

Haven’t you heard? It’s not proper for a lady to do such masculine things as sports or physical activity. Gender roles are much too blurred here in the 21st century. Didn’t you know that feminism is the root of all evil in our society??

So what about what men wear? Is that immodest or they allowed because women should control themselves but men are not under the same obligation because they can’t? I say this because it has been alleged young girls prompt young boys and men to have impure thoughts if they are altar servers, but apparently young boys and men serving at the altar would not prompt women to have impure thoughts?

 

[Debora123]

I question your statement that the Pope uses altar girls. Even if he does you have misunderstood in the first place.Daddygirl seems to suggest that those Bishop’s who do not are going against the Pope. I was pointing out to her that it was the Pope who allowed them the choice.

I’m sorry you don’t believe me:

“Pope Benedict XVI has used female altar servers in Papal masses in London (2010), Berlin and Freiburg (2011). Today only one Roman Catholic diocese in America, the diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska does not permit female altar servers.”

Look it up yourself if you’d like.

This article points out that indeed there are fewer boys who serve.

No one is saying there are more altar boys now than there were 20 years ago. But the point is that there is no proof that the drop in altar boys has anything to do with the allowance of altar girls. There are many factors that could have contributed to the decline… the most likely probably being the fact that our society seems to be becoming less and less favorable to anything religious.

 

[Debora123]

So what about what men wear? Is that immodest or they allowed because women should control themselves but men are not under the same obligation because they can’t? I say this because it has been alleged young girls prompt young boys and men to have impure thoughts if they are altar servers, but apparently young boys and men serving at the altar would not prompt women to have impure thoughts?

I have no idea. I think the whole notion is ridiculous.

If a person has an impure heart, that person will always find something/someone to lust for, regardless of what anyone is wearing. Anyone who thinks the men in Saudi Arabia never experience lust because all the women there wear sheets, is quite naive.

 

[Debora123]

Funnily enough…on one of the altar server threads a few months ago, the focus was on a Bishop down south who decided one day that a specific church could no longer have female altar servers. He didn’t explain why and he didn’t alert the parents or girls ahead of time…he made his decision and when the girls arrived for the mass that Sunday, he sent them away in tears.
I remember saying “at least he could explain to the girls…why…”
And I remember a few posts saying, “he doesn’t have to explain anything. It’s his right to make this decision and the girls must be obedient and just accept it, and not seek an explanation, but just have faith that he’s making the right decision…it doesn’t matter why.”

So…I will say the same here!

The pope decided both genders can serve at the altar, and it doesn’t matter why!
Accept that he is making the wisest, most enlightened choice for the Catholic church and that he knows what he is doing!

 

[Iheartcoffee]

I believe that being an altar server fosters vocations for both boys AND girls. Being a part of the Mass in that way as a child is an incredible learning experience, and something that has made me the devout Catholic woman that I am.

I believe serving during the Mass is a good thing for both boys and girls. Apparently the Pope feels the same way as well.

 

[adrift]

Please, yes…can you name them here?
I’d appreciate that.

St. Annes
St. Joseph
Holy Family
Immaculate Heart of Mary
Holy Trinity
St. Patricks
St. Mark
All Souls
St. Rose
St. Mary’s

 

[adrift]

No one is saying there are more altar boys now than there were 20 years ago. But the point is that there is no proof that the drop in altar boys has anything to do with the allowance of altar girls. There are many factors that could have contributed to the decline… the most likely probably being the fact that our society seems to be becoming less and less favorable to anything religious.

Just coincidence?

 

[adrift]

No one is saying there are more altar boys now than there were 20 years ago. But the point is that there is no proof that the drop in altar boys has anything to do with the allowance of altar girls. There are many factors that could have contributed to the decline… the most likely probably being the fact that our society seems to be becoming less and less favorable to anything religious.

Just coincidence?

Less priest just a coincidence too?

The rector of the Cathedral of Sts. Simon and Jude in Phoenix has decided to only allow boys to be altar servers at Mass.

Pope Benedict XVI has used female altar servers in Papal masses in London (2010), Berlin and Freiburg (2011). Today only one Roman Catholic diocese in America, the diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska does not permit female altar servers."

This is when he visits other places. What I challenged you on was his own home parish.
The reason I wondered about it is that he tends to have priest and deacons who help and has not need for altar servers.

 

[Debora123]

Just coincidence?

Less priest just a coincidence too?

Why are you questioning what I think when I already told you?

Read my comment again: “There are many factors that could have contributed to the decline… the most likely probably being the fact that our society seems to be becoming less and less favorable to anything religious.”

Yes, I think the idea that the decline in altar boys/priests is due to girls being allowed to altar serve is completely looney.

Either way, what exactly are you trying to get at here? Do you think JPII was WRONG to allow for girl altar servers? Do you think our current pope is WRONG to have girl altar servers?

 

[Debora123]

This is when he visits other places. What I challenged you on was his own home parish.
The reason I wondered about it is that he tends to have priest and deacons who help and has not need for altar servers.

What exactly is your point?

Why should it matter to me where our pope uses altar girls? I never specified any particular places (nor do I think they matter), I merely pointed out that yes, he uses them. You didn’t believe me, so I provided you with information.

 

[Gethsemane]

Ok, so I haven’t read this whole thread, but I just wanted to point something out.

This post was earlier given as proving that altar servers are preferred as male rather than female because it uses the word his. The problem being that this passage is not refering to altar servers but to the acolyte, which, as can be seen from this quote which was also previously given is a different thing than the role of altar server.

So, Gethsemene, if this post is what concinved you that there is a stated preference in the Church for altar boys over altar girls then I just wanted to make sure you realized your mistake.

Having said all that, I see many reasons to have only altar boys, as opposed to both, but there is nothing wrong with altar girls and the Church does not say that one should use only boys if it is possible, so there is definately nothing wrong going on in your new parish just because they use altar girls.

My take on it was that since traditionally there have been altar boys, that this history should be acknowledged. I did state later that I was fine with there being altar girls, but that I still lamented the lack of participation of the boys, and that I was no longer going to seek out the parish priest.

Apparently, some people won’t be happy unless I pretend that everything is peachy in the Church and that we should sit back, never question, and never learn. Obedience is good, but God does not desire blind obedience.

So anyway, thank you for being charitable with me.

 

[Stylites]

My take on it was that since traditionally there have been altar boys, that this history should be acknowledged. I did state later that I was fine with there being altar girls, but that I still lamented the lack of participation of the boys, and that I was no longer going to seek out the parish priest.

Apparently, some people won’t be happy unless I pretend that everything is peachy in the Church and that we should sit back, never question, and never learn. Obedience is good, but God does not desire blind obedience.

Certainly learn, but always question one’s own obedience before pointing accusatory fingers at priests.

 

[Gethsemane]

Certainly learn, but always question one’s own obedience before pointing accusatory fingers at priests.

The whole point of my coming here was that I could be informed so as to not cause trouble for the priest. Priests are often abandoned by the congregation and they are often stressed and have intense workloads.

We help them out by educating our own selves and not simply being passive observers at the Mass and only going by what he says. There is a whole wealth of knowledge in the Church and we’re encouraged to study and show ourselves approved (2 Timothy 2:15). It is one thing for him to give a homily on the Eucharist for example, but that homily caries greater weight and the whole atmosphere is more meditative and solemn when the congregation has a dedication to Mary, to prayer, to spiritual reading and such. And in turn we draw the priest into deeper meditation and vice versa.

“Do you want more and more of God’s kindness and peace? Then learn to know him better and better. For as you know him better, he will give you, through his great power, everything you need for living a truly good life: he even shares his own glory and his own goodness with us! And by that same mighty power he has given us all the other rich and wonderful blessings he promised; for instance, the promise to save us from the lust and rotteness all around us, and to give us his own character. But to obtain these gifts, you need more than faith; you must also work hard to be good, and even that is not enough. For then you must learn to know God better and discover what he wants you to do. Next, learn to put aside your own desires so that you will become patient and godly, gladly letting God have his way with you. This will make possible the next step, which is for you to enjoy other people and to like them, and finally you will grow to love them deeply. The more you go on in this way, the more you will grow strong spiritually and become fruitful and useful to our Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:2-8, (LB:CE)

 

[Angelsflight]

The whole point of my coming here was that I could be informed so as to not cause trouble for the priest. Priests are often abandoned by the congregation and they are often stressed and have intense workloads.

We help them out by educating our own selves and not simply being passive observers at the Mass and only going by what he says. There is a whole wealth of knowledge in the Church and we’re encouraged to study and show ourselves approved (2 Timothy 2:15). It is one thing for him to give a homily on the Eucharist for example, but that homily caries greater weight and the whole atmosphere is more meditative and solemn when the congregation has a dedication to Mary, to prayer, to spiritual reading and such. And in turn we draw the priest into deeper meditation and vice versa.

“Do you want more and more of God’s kindness and peace? Then learn to know him better and better. For as you know him better, he will give you, through his great power, everything you need for living a truly good life: he even shares his own glory and his own goodness with us! And by that same mighty power he has given us all the other rich and wonderful blessings he promised; for instance, the promise to save us from the lust and rotteness all around us, and to give us his own character. But to obtain these gifts, you need more than faith; you must also work hard to be good, and even that is not enough. For then you must learn to know God better and discover what he wants you to do. Next, learn to put aside your own desires so that you will become patient and godly, gladly letting God have his way with you. This will make possible the next step, which is for you to enjoy other people and to like them, and finally you will grow to love them deeply. The more you go on in this way, the more you will grow strong spiritually and become fruitful and useful to our Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:2-8, (LB:CE)

Absolutely ok if you are saying all this to learn more and help the priest with his workload…but your first post sounded pretty spooky,it sounded like you were going to march up to the priest, armed with canon law…and demand to know why female altar servers were in existance. And it did sound like it would be a deal-breaker for you if the church was not as perfect as you thought it should be.

My apologies if I read it wrong, but that is how it sounded. But I am glad to know that your sole intention on this is to help the priest out.

 

[Gethsemane]

Absolutely ok if you are saying all this to learn more and help the priest with his workload…but your first post sounded pretty spooky,it sounded like you were going to march up to the priest, armed with canon law…and demand to know why female altar servers were in existance. And it did sound like it would be a deal-breaker for you if the church was not as perfect as you thought it should be.

My apologies if I read it wrong, but that is how it sounded. But I am glad to know that your sole intention on this is to help the priest out.

It’s my bad really for not writing clear enough. I didn’t want to go up to him basically, “Hey, I’m not comfortable with this, and I don’t know why, but I think it might be wrong.” If my initial thoughts were correct, I wanted to have the full quotes of official teachings to give to him so that he could pray about it and correct himself. We are told to reprove our brothers, after all. Basically, I wanted to have an actual discussion with him, not a “I think you’re wrong, but I have no evidence to prove it.”

But now that I’ve found that it isn’t a breach, I’m comforted. Although, I’m still concerned about the participation of the lads, of course.

 

[triumphguy]

St. Annes
St. Joseph
Holy Family
Immaculate Heart of Mary
Holy Trinity
St. Patricks
St. Mark
All Souls
St. Rose
St. Mary’s

St. Mary’s is the Cathedral, and at the ordination of two new priests the other week, presided over by the Bishop of course, the cross bearer and MC was a girl (grade 12 from St. Mary’s High School) and the thurifer and cross bearers were high school boys.

I’m not sure what point I’m making because I’m not sure what point you are making.

 

[Zosimus41]

Well, for me my issue is that one of the main purposes for altar boys, aside from the primary duty of assisting the priest, is that it is a way for these young boys to see what the priest does and thus it may aid in vocations to the priesthood. So for me, it doesn’t seem right for young girls to assist in this manner.

That said, as is modelled at the Mass the Pope presides over, young girls can certainly present the gifts and such.

The reason there are no rules against alter girls because the church never thought that would happen. (I used alter instead of altar because of the definition if you read between the lines). Just like there were no rules for holding hands during the our Father,throwing up the orans posture,Holding out your hands back at the priest “and with your spirit” I guess people didnt get enough out of mass so they have to step in and make stuff up.

The reason they wear robes is to mimic the priest. And if you think about it little girls look rather silly dressed like priest. Its to give young boys an idea of the priesthood in hopes that one day the young boys NOT girls would want to become priests.

Cardinal Arinze on altar girls youtube.com/watch?v=KWByiwHE4MY

Like all the other abuses i.e. extra ordinary EM shouldnt be every single mass.Only during holidays “huge gatherings at mass” but it all got out of hand. Extra ordinaries are not supposed to receive communion outside of when everyone else receives as not to show co celebrance or separation from the rest of us.

The list goes on and on. The funny thing is people will defend the abuses thats what I find interesting.