Alternate Lamb of God words

[Elzee]

What is a good way to ask/remind our pastor that words such as 'Prince of Peace" and “Morning Star” are no longer (actually were never) allowed in place of the words “Lamb of God”? Is it even worth bringing up? To be honest, I’m thankful we are actually using the new translation as well as we are…I had my doubts.
I was so hoping this practice during the Lamb of God would stop when the New Translation was rolled out. What would you all do?

 

[MartyrForJesus]

Ask the priest in private, with authoritative documents in hand to confirm it. If nothing is done, see the Bishop.

 

[1ke]

Yes, it is worth it.

Please bring this to the pastor’s attention (privately).

 

[wisdomseeker]

What is a good way to ask/remind our pastor that words such as 'Prince of Peace" and “Morning Star” are no longer (actually were never) allowed in place of the words “Lamb of God”? Is it even worth bringing up? To be honest, I’m thankful we are actually using the new translation as well as we are…I had my doubts.
I was so hoping this practice during the Lamb of God would stop when the New Translation was rolled out. What would you all do?

That happens in teh Parish I go to also. This has not changed, they continue to so. It is sad. what kind of words they can come up with in this Prayer.

I dont understand why we have to go to Priest, doenst he know? doest the Bishops instruct the priests about the Mass?

 

[Elzee]

That happens in teh Parish I go to also. This has not changed, they continue to so. It is sad. what kind of words they can come up with in this Prayer.

I don’t understand why we have to go to Priest, doenst he know? doest the Bishops instruct the priests about the Mass?

I’m sure the priest knows…but he has also known for the last decade using these substitution words wasn’t allowed but continued to let it happen (along with many other wording adaptations). But, since we have a “new start” this seems like the time to speak up again. If nothing happens, I’ll contact the Bishop.

I’m also noticing a difference in “pew card” cheat sheets from publishers. Too bad the USCCB didn’t put out one one consistent pew card to be used by the entire country. For example, the one used in this parish doesn’t tell people to strike their chest during the Confiteor and doesn’t instruct people to bow during the Creed…so they don’t. The one at another parish in town by another publisher and does contains these instructions.

 

[promethius]

I dont understand why we have to go to Priest, doenst he know? doest the Bishops instruct the priests about the Mass?

I don’t think any of us, even Elzee, is qualified to determine the exact level of knowledge or intent that the priest in Elzee’s parish has… but I think we can assert in the general sense:

No, not all priests are up to date on changes in the liturgy. Allowing different tropes was, at one time, approved by the USCCB in the United States, and the priest may be unaware that Rome overturned this directive. Depending on the age and technical ability of the priest, they may also not have had the online resources to learn about changes either. It stands to reason that a bishop would give instruction on implementation of the new translation, but might not mention a decade old overturning of alternate tropes during that training.

As they say on acheivement hunter: no one is as smart as the internet (ie, we on CAF have a massive advantage of corporate knowledge over any single priest when it comes to raw wording of documents… while priests and bishops might have better understanding of interpretation of these documents when they are aware of them). Thus it is important that we HELP our priests when they have missed something by approaching them with charity and documents which back our assertions so that they might be made aware of facts they have missed.

 

[Elzee]

I don’t think any of us, even Elzee, is qualified to determine the exact level of knowledge or intent that the priest in Elzee’s parish has… but I think we can assert in the general sense:

No, not all priests are up to date on changes in the liturgy. Allowing different tropes was, at one time, approved by the USCCB in the United States, and the priest may be unaware that Rome overturned this directive. Depending on the age and technical ability of the priest, they may also not have had the online resources to learn about changes either. It stands to reason that a bishop would give instruction on implementation of the new translation, but might not mention a decade old overturning of alternate tropes during that training.

As they say on acheivement hunter: no one is as smart as the internet (ie, we on CAF have a massive advantage of corporate knowledge over any single priest when it comes to raw wording of documents… while priests and bishops might have better understanding of interpretation of these documents when they are aware of them). Thus it is important that we HELP our priests when they have missed something by approaching them with charity and documents which back our assertions so that they might be made aware of facts they have missed.

I agree with quite a bit of what you have above, but there are also priests who have been told and shown (kindly) in the past (even by more than one person) that additional tropes, changing the words of the responses and Eucharistic prayers, etc. is not allowed but have chosen to do so anyway because that is their preference (I’ve actually been told that by the priest - very sad). Approaching them in charity is what we should do, but sadly, it is not always a guarantee that they will celebrate Mass as the Church intends as opposed to how they intend.

 

[rsiefker]

Can you provide chapter and verse of the document(s) that forbid this practice?

 

[teachccd]

Can you provide chapter and verse of the document(s) that forbid this practice?

On the matter of changing the words of fixed prayers during the Mass, the Catholic Church teaches:

Dominae Cenae, element 12

“The priest… cannot consider himself a “proprietor” who can make free use of the liturgical text and of the sacred rite as if it were his own property, in such a way as to stamp it with his own arbitrary personal style. At times this latter might seem effective, and it may better correspond to subjective piety; nevertheless, it is always a betrayal of that union which should find its proper expression in the sacrament of unity.”

“Every priest who offers the Holy Sacrifice should recall that it is not only he with his community that is praying but the whole Church, which is thus expressing in this sacrament this spiritual unity, among other ways by the use of the approved liturgical text. To call this position “mere insistence on uniformity” would only show ignorance of the objective requirements of authentic unity, and would be a symptom of harmful individualism.”

Code of Canon Law, 1983, Paragraph # 838

"The supervision of the sacred Liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church which resides in the Apostolic See and, in accord with the law, the diocesan bishop.

“It is for the Apostolic See to order the sacred liturgy of the universal Church, to publish liturgical books, to review their translations into the vernacular languages, and to see that liturgical ordinances are faithfully observed everywhere”

“It pertains to the [national] conferences of bishops to prepare translations of the liturgical books into the vernacular languages, with the appropriate adaptations within the limits defined in the liturgical books themselves, and to publish them with the prior review by the Holy See.”

“It pertains to the diocesan bishop in the church entrusted to him, within the limits of his competence, to issue liturgical norms by which all are bound.”

Code of Canon Law, 1983, Paragraph # 846.1

“The liturgical books approved by the competent authority are to be faithfully observed in the celebration of the sacraments; therefore, no one on personal authority may add, remove, or change anything in them.”

 

[superamazingman]

There’s many more like that, btw.