Alternative instruments at mass

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Was at LSU’s Catholic Church last night for Mass, and music was accompanied by bongos, a cymbal, sax and piano…are these ‘non traditional’ instruments ok to use during Mass? It sounded terrible! The psalm and other music chosed sounded like it was coming from a Broadway play (If today you hear His voice, If you hear His voice today, harden not your hearts, harden not your hearts, today).
It’s one of those ‘gymnasium’ churchs that if it didn’t have a crucifix in the back, you wouldn’t even know it was a church. The stations of the cross are just non-descript “Plus” crosses inside of a diamond.

Anywho, I digress…this has probably been answered before, but come on…bongos and sax?
 
While the organ is considered to hold “pride of place” as the instrument used in musical worship, just as Gregorian chant is considered to hold “pride of place” in vocal worship, the other instruments (as well as other vocal worship) be properly used in liturgy.

The tragedy is that they so seldom ARE PROPERLY USED, but more often ABUSED.

I recommend a wonderful three part series (written by an educated and literate Church liturgical organist, Lucy Carroll), which you can find archieved at Oremus.
 
Tantum ergo:
The tragedy is that they so seldom ARE PROPERLY USED, but more often ABUSED.
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Phooey! It’s this kind of prejudice that takes all the flavor out of the mass and the joy out of the celebration called the mass.

No where does the Lord tell us that He’s only pleased by the sound of the organ. Nay, instead we read in Psalm 100 that we’re to “make a joyful sound unto the Lord”.

Well all you organ huggers can have your heavy music. There are more of us who enjoy the beautiful instruments at the mass…and yes, even modern and ethnic music. We’re not giving that up any time soon and some people are just going to have to accept that keeping people in the pews isn’t done with Latin chants, incense and organs. They all have their place, but they’re not “the only right way” to celebrate mass. Instead, the modern pharisees are going to have to come to grips with the fact that they’re extremists who aren’t driving orthodoxy, but instead are driving the rest of their fellow Catholics crazy with the nitpicky “rules” that aren’t even real rules…but rather personal biases.
 
Tantum ergo:
The tragedy is that they so seldom ARE PROPERLY USED, but more often ABUSED.

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Amen… and abuses are the fore runner of new “norms”. Let’s be careful.

MrS
 
What drives me up the wall with an organ is the same thing that drives me up the wall and across the ceiling with guitars: no concept of volume comtrol. The instruments do not need to be loud enough to drown out a space shuttle launch.

I have attended on mariachi Mass. At least the singing was balanced with the instruments.
 
The reason the organ is given the “pride of place” within a church is because it is specialized for church music. Music for the organ has been written for hundreds of years; the organ has served parishioners faithfully in worship.

That, however, doesn’t mean that other instruments are necessarily bad, nor that their use should be discouraged. Sure, have your banjo masses, and your piano and ethnic music. But don’t censor the Catholics who want traditional tunes. Let the two styles stand side by side, and let us see which of the two will survive in the end.

The sound of the organ, in its awesomeness, almost sounds like the voice of God, when played properly. The tinkle of the piano or the pounding of drums just doesn’t do anything for me. Of course, that’s just my personal liturgical opinion, but there are many who would agree with me.

In Christ,

The Augustinian
 
Hi, ppcpilot!

Sorry to hear about your displeasure with the music at LSU’s Catholic Church. I used to attend a very traditional Catholic Church when I was a student there (LONG time ago… used to be on the corner of Highland and Dalrymple, as I recall). Of course, that was 30+ years ago! 😉 Obviously, the “gymnasium” you describe is not the same building!

Anyway, back to your point…

I am actually an Eastern Catholic (Byzantine). In the Byzantine Catholic Church, tradition holds that the only musical instrument worthy of praising God during the celebration of the Divine Liturgy is the one created by the Almighty Himself - the human voice. For this reason, all music in the Byzantine Catholic Church is always performed a cappella - no instruments at all.

As a musician myself, I can truly appreciate well-played instruments in virtually any context, including worship. There is truly something to be said, however, for the awesome sound of an entire congregation of faithful raising their God-given “instruments” in song to His praise and glory.

I humbly invite all my Latin Catholic brothers and sisters to broaden your knowledge of the beauty and diversity of our Catholic Church by experiencing worship in the Eastern Catholic tradition.

a pilgrim
 
Loyola, really, you jumped to quite a few conclusions and made quite a few assumptions about me, on the basis of a statement of my opinion. On second thought, do you REALLY want to do such a thing to a fellow Catholic?

What I said about the organ and Gregorian chant having “pride of place” is FACT, mentioned in R.S. and M.S., mentioned by Pope Paul VI himself as well. I also said that other instruments could certainly be considered “all right”. Does that sound like I’m pushing for “nothing but organ and chant?” So what’s your beef? Are you seriously going to tell me that, considering ALL the dioceses in the U.S., not to mention the rest of the world, that the “music ministry” does NOT have, even if only on a ratio of 51% to 49% majority, more “abuse” than “non abuse”, of not just instruments, songs, “canned music”, poor singers, incorrect usage of music, incorrect theology (including use of overtly secular tunes with absolutely NO tie to liturgy)? Seriously, the music ministry, like all the other aspects of liturgy, has had more than its share of problems.

And I’m “taking away the joy of Mass” by asking, not for “all organ and all chant, nothing else”, but simply for a proper, respectful, JOYFUL, prayerful use of music that ENHANCES, EMBRACES, CELEBRATES and DEEPENS the liturgy??? HOW SO??

I have no problems with the use of ANY instrument or song per se, only with those whose only concern for a particular instrument or song is how it makes THEM feel. Yes, God wants us to make a “joyful noise”, but He also, by definition, wants it to be a SACRED noise. That doesn’t mean we can’t include aspects of the secular, but it does mean that the overall intent isn’t to show how GREAT WE SOUND, or LOOK, or how somebody’s voice or words make US feel, but what we sound like, look like, sing or speak to GOD.
He gave us feelings, but He gave us reason, too. We can’t just let our “feelings” overwhelm us to the point where we ignore rationality and reality in the name of the God of “I feel good” (apologies to James Brown, here).

I’m not asking for any ONE THING ALONE, except for a sacred, prayerful music. That could be bongo drums (it’s a stretch, but I can see it happening), that could be an organ, or guitars, flutes, the human voice. It could be chant, it could be “Ave Maria”, it could be “On Eagles Wings”, it could be a Christmas carol, it could be a song that hasn’t even been written yet. And any of those above could also be an abuse, if done “improperly”. IMO.
 
Would you say it was sacred music and to the greater glory of God ?
 
As with most Chruch activities, the musicians are volunteers trying to do their best. I play guitar for mass about once a month in a small musical group and I’m sure we sound like we are “abusing” the music occassionally as none of us are professionals. If I’m not careful, I slip in a little blues now and then and our ukelele player isn’t exactly traditional but nobody has complained - maybe they know they are getting what they are paying for!

I’m sure the organ was a radical new instrument at one time and I’m sure there were those who condemned its intrusion.

I know that anyone not happy with the musical selections or instruments is more than welcome to help out.

Pat
 
I see no problem with alternative instruments. My parish offers five Mass times Sat-Sun. Only one includes instruments other than piano. People can chose to attend the other four

My niece plays trumpet and flugelhorn in a group that also includes sax, clarinet, flute, guitar, upright bass, and drums. The choir director is also a HS band director, so he arranges all the instrumentation to be appropriate.

I think they all sound wonderful and complement a truly tone-deaf congregation.
 
Tatum, my problem with the first post is that you said the alternative instruments are abused. It’s music…pure and simple. Love it or hate it, don’t bash it as “abusive”. IMHO, the best music at mass has a piano with other instruments supporting it. But hey, the bongo is perfectly wonderful in its own right and I am very happy to hear it played with one of the wonderful Hispanic songs.
 
When you are in a small parish you are going to get piano and guitar because that is what the volunteers who do the music can play. And either or both can be very nice and reverently done and more often then not are. Now everyone has been to a mass with horrid music, but organ played poorly is every bit as torturous as the worst bongo and guitar combo.

Organs are expensive, large, tend to be loud and you have to have an organist.

Want better music? Convince people to donate more to the music ministries of the church.

-D
 
darcee,

Thank you for your post. So often people here are oblivious to practical concerns. No organist, then on organ music.
 
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darcee:
When you are in a small parish you are going to get piano and guitar because that is what the volunteers who do the music can play. And either or both can be very nice and reverently done and more often then not are. Now everyone has been to a mass with horrid music, but organ played poorly is every bit as torturous as the worst bongo and guitar combo.

Organs are expensive, large, tend to be loud and you have to have an organist.

Want better music? Convince people to donate more to the music ministries of the church.

-D
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We’ve recently left a church that has probably the worst pianist in the world. Evrything at the same tempo (fast and poundy- the Tantum Ergo at breakneck speed). Attempts to change this are ignored-probably because he’s not a trained musician and has probably never been to any liturgical music workshops or classes.

We’re now attending a parish in a neighboring community where the music is at the correct tempo’s and has beautiful harmonies, yet can be sung along to-I like to sing at mass…
and they use an electric piano at times, and gutitars. It’s really all in the presentation and musicianship and the attitude of the musicians-are they at mass to perform or to worship?

I’ve attended mass near the Eastman School of Music (Univ of Rochester ) where there is a Schola Cantorum-beautiful music, but is decidedly non-particapatory and very showy-not my cuppa tea. I’ll take the guitars and music in a congregation-friendly key anyday.
 
I guess we will have to split the Roman Rite up into the Jazz Rite, Folk Rite, Rock Rite, Rap Rite, Doo Wop Rite, Classical Rite, Gospel Rite, Polka Rite, Sacred Rite and on and on -----

Bring back the spoken Mass !
 
recently attended a funeral of someone associated with the Chicago Symphony, where musicians and chorus contributed to the liturgy, WOW, and even they did not overwhelm and supercede the funeral rites, but graced them.

I would happily settle for any instrument–kazoo, balalaika, samisen, mandolin, bongos, sousaphone, organ whatever that is played properly by someone who knows what they are doing, is proficient, plays in concert with, not in competition with cantors, other instrumentalists, and congregation, and is playing liturgical rather than performance music.

the same goes for vocalists, I would rather hear Kumbaya and they’ll know we are Christians or this little lite o mine sung by someone who can sing, stay on key (hopefully the same key the instrumentalists are using), who engages the congregation in singing in service to the liturgy and celebration, than listen to Bach, Mozart and the greatest hymns butchered by aging sopranos, cantors who don’t know how to use their microphones, and divas who “interpret” the lyrics.
 
a pilgrim:
In the Byzantine Catholic Church, tradition holds that the only musical instrument worthy of praising God during the celebration of the Divine Liturgy is the one created by the Almighty Himself - the human voice. For this reason, all music in the Byzantine Catholic Church is always performed a cappella - no instruments at all.
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I was not aware of that. I wonder if this tradition influenced the Church of Christ to do the same? Those Churches of Christ that follow this (they don’t all have this doctrine) do tend to have excellent singing congregations, able to sight-read four-part harmonies.

puzzleannie, you forgot didgeridoos.🙂
 
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tom.wineman:
Bring back the spoken Mass !
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I don’t think I’ve ever been to a purely spoken mass. I suppose some of the earliest masses may have been spoken rather than chanted, but then again they had the Jewish tradition which involved chanting or something similar.

Now I’m curious. Is music required, except in uh… exceptional circumstances? Or is it merely a custom?
 
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