Always struggled with God knowing the future

[FurtherSuntime]

1. All systems have perimeters which will define and express themselves perfectly in a series of consequential random outcome.
2. The ultimate outcome of all random happenings in creation is entirely predetermined “only” by perimeter order as

“a progressing” in consequence allowed by perimeter order including choice
.
Consequence is possible through the reality of perimeter order. Consequence concedes to order, be it logically disordered relative, or ordered relative.

1. Choosing to have a cup of coffee in the morning is slightly determined and then as the event comes ever more close to actually happening, g…u…l entirely determined with no option, no choice, absolutely determind p…and then the gulp is in the past. Determinism is a reality as a progression in reality-consequence allowed by order expressing the perimeter order… So determinism…on a variable always increasing and accelerating at a greater rate …same-same principal in molecular dis-order…g…u…l p
2. Above we can see how determinism works alongside non deterministic reality with the idea in the cup of coffee and the increasing and accelerating path to fully determined no choice gulp.
3. Deliberation and choice is real as a progression toward available and understood order<(survival, including understood worth-value in sacrifice) .

However happening an event must concede to a relative order. A criminal relative to self understandings logically shows society its issues while striving toward survival in depleted ego due to suggestion, or depleted assets due to greed.

1. A product such as creation with perimeter order will ultimately without question define order in its conclusion and as well , in its progression. ( lets get to the target
2. The source or god if you like knows the ultimate choice which will be made, but he does not know the “experience” of the progression in perimeter order of the choice, or the “experience” of the choice factually evidenced by individual non-existence and deliberating participation. This experience is real allowing for absolute choice, by God’s known reality of possible experience as well individual possibility for experience.

God cannot know the experience of your choice, it is logical. We cannot know the experience of a choice not made. The choice is an accelerated progression toward the perimeter order. Determinism is true by perimeter order allowing consequence.

Choice is something which represents a multitude of experience…which has not happened , relative to our reality and relative to Gods as well.

So all knowing yes, but not all experienced which unfolds the reality of choice. Its a two way discovery God-man-society-history-future-all toward order for mutual experience toward guild-line order. Think of planting a little new seedling thing. You know whats going to be, but have not enjoyed the experience of watering and watching-participating ect…either has the little plant, it has a choice within order of the plant species. But it hypothetically now, still make choice’s on where to angle the little flower by experience.

The good gardener then enjoys the experience without knowing how the experience would be, because it didn’t actually happen before planting, and also did not know the choice of the angled flower by experience…but did know the outcome would be in keeping with all perimeters

Experience is what…is REAL, The all knowing is not real by experience. It is non-actual.but knowing.by self acknowledged perimeter to creation order “only”

prob goofed on a couple of things cause was in a bit of a rush…but thats my general kick at the cat , which include more logic then what may seem disclosed. ( I don’t read anything at all, haven’t even read the whole bible…just think on stuff from time to time …so if its no good fine, but its good so far from this end, everybodys got their own way which makes it interesting…not trying to prove anything just doin a challenge

 

[FurtherSuntime]

I guess what Ive suggested is that all knowing is limited.

Well thats fine. The info we have is limited so somethings missing. The important one is all innocence . Power, knowing… becomes a little different with all innocence & order.

So the best bet is in the examples were using, plant and others Ive seen.

The Sun is probably another good one and interestingly right in front of our nose’s, shining away on whatever gets outside for some trouble free fresh air. I don’t think were supposed to really worry about these things, its not good for the thinking

 

[Simpleton]

I guess you could look at it as God has a different view point than we do, so what seems like the future to us, is just the present to Him. Take two men; one on top of the mountain peak and the other on the bottom. The guy on top has a 360 view of everything that is happening in the present while the guy on the bottom has turns, bushes, and other things blocking his view; leaving things to be unseen and unknown (future).

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Perhaps this will help::heaven:

1-We have freedom of choice at every given moment (except for natural disasters, etc.)

2-God knows everything we eventually choose, but in the moment, He appeals to the best part of us, entreating us to choose the most loving or compassionate path.

3-Despite what we do, He stills desires us to draw closer to Him.

Also, I believe there is a Biblical scripture that says “Christ slain before the foundation of the world.” meaning that before Adam and Eve fell, there was already a great and merciful plan for us. God knew about The Fall, but gave us the free choice, and because He knew our choice beforehand, because God is Love, He knew that He would send His One Only Begotten Son to save the world.:angel1:

Where-ever we go, whatever we choose, there is nowhere that we can escape God’s love for us unless we utterly, with full knowledge of His love, finally turn from Him. We have a choice. God is always many steps ahead of us. He is outside of time, and He is the Lord of all Time. We may not be able to fully grasp this, but no matter. God is love, and He shall triumph.:angel1::harp::heaven:

Does that help a bit?
Blessings to you!

 

[belorg]

But if the picture reel is of your entire life, it merely is a record of all your free choices.

The picture reel with all my ‘free’ chopices’ existed long before I was born. IOW wgat I will do tomorrow has been a carved-in-stone reality for all eternity, which means it is jnot a free choicen in the libertarian sense.

There is nothing difficult about that.

You must wrap your mind around what it means to be outside of time.

I am wrapping my mind around it. the problem is: you aren’t.

For God it means the past and the future are present. There is no future in God.

Which means that everything is eternally present, which means my future choices have been present for all etenity.

That’s what the word Eternal means. Eternity is not an infinite number of years; rather it is an existence outside of time. God is not an old man with a long white beard who knows a lot of truth—God is *Truth itself. * The Infinite Being who is Truth itself, has all knowledge is in Himself–past and future.

Fine, but that does not take away the problem at all.

I can keep on repeating the same things overv and over again, but that would be pointless.
I think it is abundantly clear to everybody that the traditional Catholic concept of an omniscinet God who somehow holds people resonsible for their ‘choices’ is incoherent.
No matter how much you wish it to be true, it just isn’t.
You will have to choose: follow the path logic leads you to and reject that God-concept, or following your doctrine and reject logic.
I have made my choice: I follow the truth.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

The picture reel with all my ‘free’ chopices’ existed long before I was born. IOW wgat I will do tomorrow has been a carved-in-stone reality for all eternity, which means it is jnot a free choicen in the libertarian sense…

Not carved in stone until you make them, but only to God the Eternal Being, your Creator knows you better than you know yourself. He calls on you to make the right choice, but your choices are yours alone.

Which means that everything is eternally present, which means my future choices have been present for all etenity.

In God’s mind yes, and He reaches out to you with His grace, and knows whether you will respond or reject it.

I can keep on repeating the same things overv and over again, but that would be pointless.

You can keep telling yourself that the universe bubbled-up accidentally, but that is irrational. If you need proof for God’s existence just ask; there´s plenty of it. Again, time and matter came into existence together; thus the Cause is outside of time itself (eternity).

I think it is abundantly clear to everybody that the traditional Catholic concept of an omniscinet God who somehow holds people resonsible for their ‘choices’ is incoherent.

Sin is simply the misuse of both intellect and will. Sn has a built-in consequence (“punishment”) Thus if you transgress the laws of health your body suffers,; likewise you transgress the Laws which govern the spirit of man there are built-in consequences. Again, the built-in punishment for plucking your own eyes out is blindness. Be careful, pride blinds the mind, and some of the smartest people on earth are not very wise because of it…

You will have to choose: follow the path logic leads you to and reject that God-concept, or following your doctrine and reject logic.

The problem with atheism is that it is a psychological condition, not a rational conclusion. The fact that the universe is comprehensible is proof that a higher intelligence is behind the cosmos.
Again, atheism is intellectual poop simply because it leads to a wasted life, and not knowing what the point of life itself is all about is not very bright. As for atheism , I would suggest reading the book The Psychology of Atheism, By Prof. Paul Vitz.

I have made my choice: I follow the truth

Thinking that the universe bubbled-up accidentally is silly. I would suggest watching the video of former atheist superchamp Antony Flew, who after a lifetime of being one of atheism’s leading voice finally conceded the necessity of a Higher Intelligence behind the origin f life itself. WATCH IT HERE

But again, please answer the simple question: Is harmony accidental?

 

[belorg]

Not carved in stone until you make them, but only to God the Eternal Being, your Creator knows you better than you know yourself. He calls on you to make the right choice, but your choices are yours alone.

If you canot see the blatant inconsistency in what you are claiming here, then I am afraid there is nothing more I can say.

The rest of your sermon is completely irrelevant, so good-bye.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

If you canot see the blatant inconsistency in what you are claiming here, then I am afraid there is nothing more I can say.

There’s no inconsistency when one understands the concept of time. Realize that in order for something to have a beginning it must exist in time. God, the Cause of time and matter itself has no beginning or end because He exists outside of time. Time is a measurement of change. Since you and I exist in time, our choices can change. God existing outside of time sees everything that is in time at once. His knowledge does not infringe on the free choices you make in time; for example, the choice you made to run away from the simple question I posed to you earlier. So please choose to answer it already. Here it is again: Is harmony accidental?

The rest of your sermon is completely irrelevant, so good-bye.

The mind of an atheist has subscribed to the idea that the cosmos simply “bubbled-up” accidentally. To claim that the cosmos is a big accident, is like saying that the harmony of music is accidental. The fact that the universe is *comprehensible *is proof that a higher intelligence is behind the cosmos. If you pound your elbows on a keyboard and type a strings of random letter arrangements, it would be incomprehensible. You can comprehend the arrangement of symbols you are reading right now simply because you understand the “code” we call the “English Language”.

I would recommend you read the book “The Language of God.” By Dr. Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project and lead the team to crack the DNA Code. He describes the DNA code as a “beautiful language.” Incidentally, Dr. Collins, is a former atheist.

 

[Polycarp1]

God is eternally present. As stated he is not limited by time or space. It is man who marks time in a linear fashion and God speaks to us in ways that we will understand, but after all how does the all knowing all seeing “eternal Being” explain himself to man with our limited capacity and intellect. (Talk about having to dummy things down!) That is how God can see and know what will happen in our future without interfering with our freewill to choose. God looks as our lives in terms of eternity and not as we often do as the short period between birth and physical death. He knows that like it or not that we are here spiritually for all eternity and that our time of earth is just a drop of water compared to the unlimited sea of eternity.
While we see the loss of life through disasters, disease or crime as something immediately horrible, God is more concerned with the rest of eternity than how long we actually physically inhabit the earth. The good dying young is only terrible to us as it reminds of our own physical frailty but young is not that big a deal when we are talking eternity. Never-the-less it can be painful for us to see and God does care even if I may sound a little callous.
God is love. Love cannot be forced and can only be given freely. God created man and wants them to love Him so in order to be true to His nature he had to give us the option not to love him, even to hate Him. God will not force his love on us. It follows that God has His positive will and His permissive will allowing us to accept or reject Him. In order for us to have freewill we have to be able to choose between good and evil. As He created us in His own image an instinct for good is instilled or inherent in us. (His precepts were written on our hearts so to speak) We can reject this and do when we sin. We can rationalize it away. When we choose evil we cut ourselves off, individually or collectively, from God’s grace. When we cut ourselves off from God’s grace bad things can and will happen again individually or collectively. It’s our choice. Only repentance and prayer can restore our life of grace from God. When we ask how can God let that terrible thing happen, we are usually looking at things from our own limited point of view and our own limited sense of what we want justice to be. We don’t often see things through the eyes of God. When we do it’s called Wisdom.