Am I a heretic?

[Hokomai]

I can see why your previous work would raise a big red flag with the priest, .

 

[Thomas_Casey]

You may want to sit Father down for a cup of tea and biscuits and politely explain that people’s perceptions, understanding and positions evolve over time, because situations change or because we study something further and discover other points that we had not considered.

You can use examples with which his familiar.

!. Our current pope wrote a thesis questioning the reasonableness of mandatory celibacy. After working with Bl. John Paul II he moved away from that position. They influenced each other in many ways.

1. Our current Prefect for the Sacred Congregation of the Faith, the Number 2 man in the Church, wrote his Doctoral Dissertation on Humanae Vitae in which he questioned parts of it. He has moved along the continuum.
2. The original priests of the FSSP believed that the SSPX was the answer to their problems, until the illegal ordination of four bishops. They moved away from that position.

A person’s thought is based on what he is thinking today, not on what he thought yesteryear. In the above situations, the first two, the two researchers continued to study and modified their positions. In the third case, the situation inside the SSPX changed, which triggered a change of allegiance in those priests who decided to leave. The change can be within the person or in the circumstances.

You have not said if he’s a young priest. My experience is that young religious and young priests can be relenting in their zeal. They have not quite learned how to modulate it so as to be reasonable. They often come across in ways that they don’t see. They’re good people, but not seasoned.

Getting angry at them and punishing them only hardens them. Whereas educating them helps them grow. I know, because I do formation work for my community. The young can be ruthless. They don’t mean to be. I am always pulling in the reigns. Sometimes, the people with whom they work are very helpful, because they calmly help them understand the need to slow down in their judgment of others. They mean well, but they’re so eager to get it right that they get it wrong.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

You may want to sit Father down for a cup of tea and biscuits and politely explain that people’s perceptions, understanding and positions evolve over time, because situations change or because we study something further and discover other points that we had not considered.

You can use examples with which his familiar.

!. Our current pope wrote a thesis questioning the reasonableness of mandatory celibacy. After working with Bl. John Paul II he moved away from that position. They influenced each other in many ways.

1. Our current Prefect for the Sacred Congregation of the Faith, the Number 2 man in the Church, wrote his Doctoral Dissertation on Humanae Vitae in which he questioned parts of it. He has moved along the continuum.
2. The original priests of the FSSP believed that the SSPX was the answer to their problems, until the illegal ordination of four bishops. They moved away from that position.

A person’s thought is based on what he is thinking today, not on what he thought yesteryear. In the above situations, the first two, the two researchers continued to study and modified their positions. In the third case, the situation inside the SSPX changed, which triggered a change of allegiance in those priests who decided to leave. The change can be within the person or in the circumstances.

You have not said if he’s a young priest. My experience is that young religious and young priests can be relenting in their zeal. They have not quite learned how to modulate it so as to be reasonable. They often come across in ways that they don’t see. They’re good people, but not seasoned.

Getting angry at them and punishing them only hardens them. Whereas educating them helps them grow. I know, because I do formation work for my community. The young can be ruthless. They don’t mean to be. I am always pulling in the reigns. Sometimes, the people with whom they work are very helpful, because they calmly help them understand the need to slow down in their judgment of others. They mean well, but they’re so eager to get it right that they get it wrong.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[socialcath101]

He’s a little older than me… Apparently he was at the the same college I was at 30 years ago… I was a regular grad student and he was in the seminary…

I’ve actually sorted everything out with a phone call… But thanks

 

[YoungTradCath]

I am surprised no one suggested contacting the HR department where the OP works and the HR department for the diocese. And maybe get some legal advice.

Seems sort of an undermining and cowardly way to solve it.

 

[socialcath101]

Seems sort of an undermining and cowardly way to solve it.

How about this lol… I called him on his phone lol… It solved everything

He was upset and looking for a way to get out of the assignment… But we’ve settled everything and I think he’ll be quite good at the job…

 

[YoungTradCath]

How about this lol… I called him on his phone lol… It solved everything

He was upset and looking for a way to get out of the assignment… But we’ve settled everything and I think he’ll be quite good at the job…

No, I meant talking to HR or something. I think what you did was good. I figured he didn’t like his assignment. Usually FSSP priests aren’t put in such… general… assignments.

 

[JReducation]

No, I meant talking to HR or something. I think what you did was good. I figured he didn’t like his assignment. Usually FSSP priests aren’t put in such… general… assignments.

That’s like other societies of apostolic life. They were generally targeted for a specific mission. Look at Missionhurst, Maryknoll, Vincentians and Opus Dei (Holy Cross, not the Congregation of the Holy Cross). These men were originally very specific in the ministries that they did.

However, the religious orders picked up the slack. Today, most religious superiors are no longer willing to pick up positions that should be occupied by seculars. More and more secular priests, diocesan and society priests, are being put into these assignments, which are more appropriate to the secular state than the consecrated state.

That being said, the Church tries to do this very sparingly, because she wants to preserve the charism of the societies as much as she wants to preserve the charism of the religious communities. But when push comes to shove, the charism of the religious communities always takes precedence and the Diocesan and secular societies are asked to cover as much as they can cover.

If you deal with these men with kindness, understanding and patience, you find that they are really great guys. Often, they are lost in these kinds of assignments, because they entered their respective societies believing that they were going to be doing a specific type of ministry. It’s nice that the OP had a positive conversation with Father. It will help him feel comfortable and not feel pressured or have his feelings ignored.

The worse thing that can happen to anyone who is on an assignment is to feel that his feelings are being ignored, unless he’s a religious. In which case, he has no right to expect superiors to consider his feelings. It’s part of the vow of chastity. This is not the case for a priest of the FSSP or any other society of apostolic life. He does not have a vow of chastity. He has every right to have his feelings respected and understood.

I bet he feels pretty good that the OP took the time to be nice to him. It’s always a great to know that someone notices you.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Planty_Pall]

I work for a Catholic social service agency as a community organizer. My typical job duties include helping low income people apply for social services and other assistance programs, referring pregnant women to Catholic adoption agencies and crisis pregnancy centers away from abortion, helping ex-convicts find housing, social services, and job assistance, and helping disabled adults and teenagers etc.

The diocese usually provides us with a secular priest who serves as a liaison of sorts between our organization and the Church.

Usually we get a Jesuit who is always very helpful and supportive of our work and mission. However recently events have begun to trouble me and even threaten my job. We have a new auxiliary Bishop who is something of a traditionalist.

He sent us a priest with the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. Well I have to interact with this priest on a daily basis. He dug up my masters thesis from 30 years ago on liberation theology. He’s now saying I’m no longer fit to work for this agency because I did my thesis in support of liberation theology.

I keep admitting to him that I don’t support it anymore and it was something I did when I was young and idealistic. But he won’t hear it.

He also reinforces his position with the fact working with the poor and disadvantaged is my life. I’m at a loss. Any advice would be very helpful.

You haven’t provided any information to say why someone might think you are a heretic. You are saying that you agree with the FSSP priest about every doctrinal matter but he is still suspicious? C’mon. Tell us what you disagree with the priest about and maybe we can take sides.

 

[socialcath101]

His name is Father Carter and we’re going to try to get him diocesan permission to do daily mass in the chapel at our agency.

Right now they only do the English mass at our chapel…

But I suggested to make Father Carter more comfortable that he do a latin mass to make him feel more at home with his assignment…

The current priest assigned to the chapel is very supportive of the idea… Prayers that we get permission to to do this

 

[YoungTradCath]

His name is Father Carter and we’re going to try to get him diocesan permission to do daily mass in the chapel at our agency.

Right now they only do the English mass at our chapel…

But I suggested to make Father Carter more comfortable that he do a latin mass to make him feel more at home with his assignment…

The current priest assigned to the chapel is very supportive of the idea… Prayers that we get permission to to do this

Well, the thing is, absolutely no permission is required to celebrate Extraordinary Form (“Latin”) masses. There used to be, but Pope Benedict removed that requirement entirely. Now any priest is allowed to freely celebrate those masses.

I don’t understand why he would need permission to do so, unless the chapel is run primarily by another priest, in which case the FSSP priest would need his permission, but that’s it. But now we’re getting into politics.

Honestly, I find it kind of detestable that anyone would try to impose his will on an FSSP priest to celebrate English Ordinary Form masses, because that is totally and completely and absolutely contrary to the FSSP priest’s charism and purpose for being an FSSP priest. No man goes to the FSSP wanting to “just be a priest.” He goes to the FSSP wanting to be a priest specifically and (nearly) exclusively celebrating the Extraordinary Form of the mass. That is why the FSSP exists, and to take that away from an FSSP priest would be like making Franciscans serve rich people. But obviously this isn’t your fault.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Well, the thing is, absolutely no permission is required to celebrate Extraordinary Form (“Latin”) masses. …

I read socialcath’s talk of “permission” as relating to permission to have daily Mass, not specifically the Latin Mass.

Anyway, it seems to be all turning out well! Deo Gratias!

I will say a prayer for your intentions, and for Father.

 

[socialcath101]

I read socialcath’s talk of “permission” as relating to permission to have daily Mass, not specifically the Latin Mass.

Anyway, it seems to be all turning out well! Deo Gratias!

I will say a prayer for your intentions, and for Father.

yeah that’s what i meant

 

[JimmytheButcher]

I work for a Catholic social service agency as a community organizer. My typical job duties include helping low income people apply for social services and other assistance programs, referring pregnant women to Catholic adoption agencies and crisis pregnancy centers away from abortion, helping ex-convicts find housing, social services, and job assistance, and helping disabled adults and teenagers etc.

The diocese usually provides us with a secular priest who serves as a liaison of sorts between our organization and the Church.

Usually we get a Jesuit who is always very helpful and supportive of our work and mission. However recently events have begun to trouble me and even threaten my job. We have a new auxiliary Bishop who is something of a traditionalist.

He sent us a priest with the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. Well I have to interact with this priest on a daily basis. He dug up my masters thesis from 30 years ago on liberation theology. He’s now saying I’m no longer fit to work for this agency because I did my thesis in support of liberation theology.

I keep admitting to him that I don’t support it anymore and it was something I did when I was young and idealistic. But he won’t hear it.

He also reinforces his position with the fact working with the poor and disadvantaged is my life. I’m at a loss. Any advice would be very helpful.

Simply have the master’s thesis re-published with an addendum attached disavowing various aspects of the thesis if not the whole thing entirely. Don’t get all befuddled because a fuddy person crossed your tracks. Just deal and cover your tracks acting like a professional. You certainly must be if you have obtained a master’s degree. Realise that many of the FSSP men are very scholarly and often come from backgrounds where debate and disputation rule the day. Strictly speaking, if you have a published work that is not so hunky-dorie and you come to another view you are sort of supposed to fix the problem. Just saying… I am a professional historian despite being a butcher and I try to go back and fix my many errors from time to time.

 

[Hesychios]

He sent us a priest with the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. Well I have to interact with this priest on a daily basis. He dug up my masters thesis from 30 years ago on liberation theology. He’s now saying I’m no longer fit to work for this agency because I did my thesis in support of liberation theology.

I keep admitting to him that I don’t support it anymore and it was something I did when I was young and idealistic. But he won’t hear it.

He also reinforces his position with the fact working with the poor and disadvantaged is my life. I’m at a loss. Any advice would be very helpful.

It’s a good thing Saint Augustine didn’t run into anyone like that after he left his Manichean days behind

The history of the church could have turned out a lot differently.

Anyway, I don’t believe that Liberation Theology is classified a heresy and the church can still use some youthful idealism.

 

[socialcath101]

It’s a good thing Saint Augustine didn’t run into anyone like that after he left his Manichean days behind

The history of the church could have turned out a lot differently.

Anyway, I don’t believe that Liberation Theology is classified a heresy and the church can still use some youthful idealism.

lol… I am somewhat of a “progressive” Catholic… But progressive in the sense that I support a governmental role in social safety nets in addition to the Church… But that’s just because I work in human services

But I hold true to all other Church teachings such as abortion, marriage etc… But yeah I don’t support liberation theology anymore lol…

I was a bit of a radical in those days lol

I am much to old for that now…

 

[Trento1551]

Every FSSP “priest” is a heretic. They accept Benedict XVI as a valid pope and teach souls can be saved outside the Church by “Baptism of Desire/Blood” and by “invincible ignorance”. FSSP “priests” were “ordained” in the new rite of ordination and therefore are not even valid priests.

 

[JReducation]

Well, the thing is, absolutely no permission is required to celebrate Extraordinary Form (“Latin”) masses. There used to be, but Pope Benedict removed that requirement entirely. Now any priest is allowed to freely celebrate those masses.

I don’t understand why he would need permission to do so, unless the chapel is run primarily by another priest, in which case the FSSP priest would need his permission, but that’s it. But now we’re getting into politics.

Honestly, I find it kind of detestable that anyone would try to impose his will on an FSSP priest to celebrate English Ordinary Form masses, because that is totally and completely and absolutely contrary to the FSSP priest’s charism and purpose for being an FSSP priest. No man goes to the FSSP wanting to “just be a priest.” He goes to the FSSP wanting to be a priest specifically and (nearly) exclusively celebrating the Extraordinary Form of the mass. That is why the FSSP exists, and to take that away from an FSSP priest would be like making Franciscans serve rich people. But obviously this isn’t your fault.

If the chapel is privately owned, then the priest needs permission from the Director of the agency to celebrate mass there and the Director of the agency can say that he prefers an OF or an EF. What the agency director cannot do is tell Father John Doe that he has to celebrate an EF or OF. He can politely thank Fr. John Doe and not use him for mass. He can certainly say that he wants only the OF or the EF. It’s his agency, even though it’s Catholic. If the agency belongs to the diocese, then the bishop is the final authority over the chapel, otherwise, it’s the director.

Think of it like a Catholic school with a chapel. If the school belongs to a board or a religious community, they decide what form of the mass they want and they grant priests permission to celebrate mass in their chapels. Permission is not the same as faculties. he has faculties or the bishop would not have assigned him there. The FSSP superior approves of the agency or he would not have agreed to the assignment. Chapels are private, not public as are parishes.

Hope that helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[socialcath101]

Every FSSP “priest” is a heretic. They accept Benedict XVI as a valid pope and teach souls can be saved outside the Church by “Baptism of Desire/Blood” and by “invincible ignorance”. FSSP “priests” were “ordained” in the new rite of ordination and therefore are not even valid priests.

I’ve reported you to the mods!

 

[YoungTradCath]

Every FSSP “priest” is a heretic. They accept Benedict XVI as a valid pope and teach souls can be saved outside the Church by “Baptism of Desire/Blood” and by “invincible ignorance”. FSSP “priests” were “ordained” in the new rite of ordination and therefore are not even valid priests.

What on earth are you talking about?