Am I a Home-wrecker?

[quasimodo]

Well…um…this is a religious forum and the sacramentality or not of marriage is relevant. Don’t be irritated.

Specific reference, please? “Canon law” is like saying “The Church says”…very vague.

Yes, she’s living with her husband but the OP uses the term “Ex”.

I’m not clear whether or not they are civilly divorced, Catholic/non-Catholic/annuled/not annuled or simply not getting along. Can someone clarify?

canon 1060 is not vague… it means that all marriages are presumed valid.

To the church and for a Catholic, civil divorce is not relevant to the question at hand unless there has been a decree of nullity granted to the woman and her husband. A decree of nullity would be necessary whether or not they are Catholic.

 

[Joe_5859]

Is this true if it was a “civil only” marriage, outside of any church? References?

Specific reference, please? “Canon law” is like saying “The Church says”…very vague.

Yes, she’s living with her husband but the OP uses the term “Ex”.

I’m not clear whether or not they are civilly divorced, Catholic/non-Catholic/annuled/not annuled or simply not getting along. Can someone clarify?

I don’t believe there’s a specific canon that would look like what you’re looking for. It’s in the application of Canon Law, such as the one about all marriages being presumed valid (Can. 1060: “the validity of a marriage must be upheld until the contrary is proven.”)

Even if it seems an open-and-shut case for an invalid marriage (two Catholics who were married outside the Church without a dispensation; one spouse was previously married; etc.), they still have to go through the process. If it’s open-and-shut, the process won’t take nearly as long, but they still need that Declaration of Nullity from their diocese before they could get married in the Catholic Church.

 

[mark_a]

Any . . . . .insults would be very much welcome,

Sounds like you are her mimbo.

 

[EucaristiaDiv]

Sounds like you are her mimbo.

haha, i didnt get it at first, but i think you’re referring to the male version of a bimbo. Am I good looking? I dont think so but I hear it everyday, am I stupid? I do think so, but I never hear it.

Again, thank you for the insult (you see if you want to give a psychoanalysis then you might say that I have a high self steem since I can even take negative feedbak, but a mimbo?) Please base your comment, dont just shoot it out. Thank you y que Dios te bendiga mijito’.

 

[mark_a]

Again, thank you for the insult (you see if you want to give a psychoanalysis then you might say that I have a high self steem since I can even take negative feedbak, but a mimbo?) Please base your comment, dont just shoot it out. Thank you y que Dios te bendiga mijito’.

You are being used as a contingency.

Run or one day you will be in the same predicament as your girlfriend’s husband.

 

[EasterJoy]

Once again, thank you. I’ve done a few things that were difficult to do. I asked her for the divorce papers, she now says that I’m not trusting on her word. I told her how I feel and how hard it is to trust her with all the red flags and she’s saying I’m being selfish for not understanding the situation she’s in for her daughter. She kept accusing me of leaving off with another girl right away. I told her I can’t do this if I don’t see good intentions and she was getting more mad the more I said it. We’ll be friends. Your words and everyone else’s here has made me understand to the full extent of what I was doing and I concluded I better not take a chance. When I hear advice from friends I smurk and don’t listen, but when it comes from a Catholic’s point of view I just can’t stop myself from listening. I was kind of expecting that from here. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!

ps.- she kept asking me who have I been talking to lately that is making me act different now.

If you have had a sexual relationship with her, I wouldn’t be so sure the “just friends” thing is going to work out. I say this just as one of those things that we old people come to know, having watched so much real life go by, that many young people may think is too cynical. It sometimes works out with divorced people; it rarely happens with those who have had an affair, especially not unless BOTH were convinced the affair was a very bad idea, even as they carried it on…and I’m talking about people that one would otherwise consider very decent. Lust is a very powerful force. If you even might be an occasion of sin for her or vice versa, it is best to find less dangerous friends. Just a thought.

A second thing to keep on your radar: about 1 in 25 of the US population fits the psychiatric definition of a sociopath. It doesn’t mean they are criminal, in the sense of headed toward prison. They’re not psychopaths. It just means they face no emotional consequences when they sin. They have no emotional conscience, no scruples. Any conscience they have is in the intellect, if it is there at all. If it is not there–and many sociopaths make their livelihoods on their skill at pretending to have a conscience they don’t have!!–be sure that this person will use your own compassion and conscience to her advantage and your undoing. She will use deception to play your guilt and pity like a violin. Her story and arrangement with her husband smells like the story of someone adept at that, to be sure.

If you have a “friend” who lies to you, especially casually, or who takes advantage of your pity, these are red flags that you should ease out of this person’s social circle. (Do not make an enemy of a sociopath; some are cut-off-their-nose-to-spite-their-faces vindictive.)

Here’s a test. If it makes the hairs stand up on the back of your neck, you need to a) get out and b) read up on what a sociopath is, because the same soft-hearted people tend to be victimized by this type, over and over and over.
blog52.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/sociopath_test.pdf

Martha Stout wrote a book titled “The Sociopath Next Door”.

 

[cathopologist]

I’m with the others: Run away from her. She can be nice and “sweet” with you; she knows she can have her ways with you since you are soft-hearted. But you know what? She can just toss you aside at any time for another man who is richer than you.

Stay if you wish to learn a valuable but painful lesson. Leave if you wish to be smart. And yes, you are committing adultery. You can put it in any way you want, and it’s still adultery.

 

[EucaristiaDiv]

‘left overs’ ouch…took me a minute to catch your meaning there. lol You know, I feel sadly for her. She is lost. God rejoices when the 1 sheep who left the fold comes back, more than the 99 that didn’t leave the pack. The greatest thing you can do for her…is to pray for her. I will too. I think it’s best to pray for her…from a distance though. lol But, I think she, like us all, are vulnerable to all kinds of sins…hopefully, she will try to find her way back to a relationship with Christ. You’re welcome, and God bless.

Women can be difficult. She’s changed. She calls me late at night, she’s always asking what I’m up to, telling me she can’t wait to see me again. I didn’t think she got the point so I told her today that after going to Mass I’ve decided to commit myself to chastity and wait until I’m married. She totally respects that (from what she said) she even said that since I’m doing it then she’ll have to do it herself as well. I explained to her that it’ not some pact but that it should be based with praying and dedication to God. I don’t know if she means what she says, she says I really have no reason to believe we’re having an affair and that she can’t wait for the day to leave that house so that we don’t ever talk about it. If I see her, would it be adultery? I want to do what’s right, even if it means not ever seeing her again.

 

[elts1956]

Despite the fact that I feel like it, my heart tells me to be patient and that I’m not a homewrecker. I’m currently dating a woman 10 years older than me (I’m 26) who has a 5-year-old daughter with whom she says is her ex-husband (they did not get married through the Church). Because he made a living hell out of her life while they were separated she finally decided to move back into the house with him just for the sake of the daughter. Not to mention it’s a huge house, she drives an expensive benz, etc etc. So she lives quite comfortably with him. I only see her during school hours since we both go to the same college. She even told me once that they sleep in the same bed with the baby in between but they never even touch each other. She doesn’t dare to call me during the evenings and weekends. When we do talk they’re short conversations because she’s always feeling sick. Her plan is to finish studying (2 years left) and then move out to be on her own with her daughter and then we can have a steady relationship. I love her and I want to believe her, one side of me says I’m naive and stupid but another that I should be patient because she’s worth the wait. My priority really is the little girl, I don’t want to be in an affair. She says that he can’t never find out because he said her daughter will never have another daddy because he won’t permit it and she’d get kick out of the house and give away all those financial commodities. I just wish there could be a way to find out the truth without hurting any of them.

Any suggestions, comments, and insults would be very much welcome,

Some dude from Miami who has the bad luck to come across trophy wives (3rd time)

Looks like you are on a losing streak of your own making. Everyone wants and looks for that “special someone”, but you are definitely looking in the wrong place right now.

A special someone is someone who:

1. Wants to be with you when it is convenient for BOTH of you, not just as certain times when her husband won’t get suspicious.

2.Enjoys sharing fun and laughter with you when it is convenient for BOTH of you, not just at certain times when her husband won’t get suspicious. GETTING THE PICTURE?
3. Is there to hold your hand if you are ill, even if it is inconvenient.

4.Holds her head up high when she introduces you to her friends

5.Has you on her mind more often than not, not just when her husband won’t get suspicious.

1. Is willing to negotiate, compromise, communicate everything that matters to both of you.

If you do have the courage to break up with this woman and I hope you do, the next time run when a married, almost separated, almost married woman even looks in your direction. Three strikes and you are out. Try something different. Find someone who TRULY cares for you as you do her.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Women can be difficult. She’s changed. She calls me late at night, she’s always asking what I’m up to, telling me she can’t wait to see me again. I didn’t think she got the point so I told her today that after going to Mass I’ve decided to commit myself to chastity and wait until I’m married. She totally respects that (from what she said) she even said that since I’m doing it then she’ll have to do it herself as well. I explained to her that it’ not some pact but that it should be based with praying and dedication to God. I don’t know if she means what she says, she says I really have no reason to believe we’re having an affair and that she can’t wait for the day to leave that house so that we don’t ever talk about it. If I see her, would it be adultery? I want to do what’s right, even if it means not ever seeing her again.

So, she went from being furious and irritated at you to now trying to sweeten you up, huh? Boy, sounds like a chameleon. The fact remains that she is probably still married and seeing her at all really amounts to adultery. Jesus said that if we even look at a woman lustfully that we’ve committed adultery with her in our heart.

It’s a ticking time bomb, E.D. It’s playing with fire and you’re going to get burned. I appreciate the fact that you are considering chastity. You should do that alone and break off communication with her. I don’t believe friendship is going to work with her at this point.

Move on, brother - move on.

Peace…

MW

 

[peary1]

Despite the fact that I feel like it, my heart tells me to be patient and that I’m not a homewrecker. I’m currently dating a woman 10 years older than me (I’m 26) who has a 5-year-old daughter with whom she says is her ex-husband (they did not get married through the Church). Because he made a living hell out of her life while they were separated she finally decided to move back into the house with him just for the sake of the daughter. Not to mention it’s a huge house, she drives an expensive benz, etc etc. So she lives quite comfortably with him. I only see her during school hours since we both go to the same college. She even told me once that they sleep in the same bed with the baby in between but they never even touch each other. She doesn’t dare to call me during the evenings and weekends. When we do talk they’re short conversations because she’s always feeling sick. Her plan is to finish studying (2 years left) and then move out to be on her own with her daughter and then we can have a steady relationship. I love her and I want to believe her, one side of me says I’m naive and stupid but another that I should be patient because she’s worth the wait. My priority really is the little girl, I don’t want to be in an affair. She says that he can’t never find out because he said her daughter will never have another daddy because he won’t permit it and she’d get kick out of the house and give away all those financial commodities. I just wish there could be a way to find out the truth without hurting any of them.

Any suggestions, comments, and insults would be very much welcome,

Some dude from Miami who has the bad luck to come across trophy wives (3rd time)

**I can’t believe that you are falling for this nonsense! First, you have no proof that she and her so-called ex-husband are divorced. Second, she is living in the house with him, sleeps in the same bed with him, and probably cooks and cleans for him. By the fact she is “high maintenance” what makes you think you can provide for all her personal needs and wants? What it sounds like is that she is having an affair with you, and I doubt she is divorced. By the very fact that you cannot call her (and vice versa) during evenings or the weekends sounds like something foul is afoot here.

You have more to lose in this dysfunctional relationship than she does. Drop it.**

 

[SeekerJen]

Women can be difficult. She’s changed. She calls me late at night, she’s always asking what I’m up to, telling me she can’t wait to see me again. I didn’t think she got the point so I told her today that after going to Mass I’ve decided to commit myself to chastity and wait until I’m married. She totally respects that (from what she said) she even said that since I’m doing it then she’ll have to do it herself as well. I explained to her that it’ not some pact but that it should be based with praying and dedication to God. I don’t know if she means what she says, she says I really have no reason to believe we’re having an affair and that she can’t wait for the day to leave that house so that we don’t ever talk about it. If I see her, would it be adultery? I want to do what’s right, even if it means not ever seeing her again.

She is still playing you, man. Don’t fall for it. She knows exactly which buttons to push and she’s doing it. Get out now. Don’t see her again, don’t even take her phone calls. You do not owe her anything.

 

[EucaristiaDiv]

So, she went from being furious and irritated at you to now trying to sweeten you up, huh? Boy, sounds like a chameleon. The fact remains that she is probably still married and seeing her at all really amounts to adultery. Jesus said that if we even look at a woman lustfully that we’ve committed adultery with her in our heart.

It’s a ticking time bomb, E.D. It’s playing with fire and you’re going to get burned. I appreciate the fact that you are considering chastity. You should do that alone and break off communication with her. I don’t believe friendship is going to work with her at this point.

Move on, brother - move on.

Peace…

MW

I doubt she’s married, she’s bringing the divorce papers next time I see her. My only doubt is if she’s with the ex. But maybe the fact that I’m having doubts should be enough. Unfortunately, due to work I have to see her since she’s a client. The one that pays the best by far.
She has changed ever since I told her I’m not going to be in this relationship anymore because I don’t believe her. But I’m slowly coming to realize (thanks to your words) that this is not going anywhere and it’s better to be single. I think I’ll wait for her from a distant without closing my doors.

 

[Jolly_Joe]

I think the thing you really need to figure out is what it is about women in really messed up situations that is so attractive to you. If you are trying to be the proverbial White Knight in shining armor or what.

It’s kind of like the woman who is in one relationship after another where the guy beats her. For some reason she is chosing to be in that type of relationship.

And you’ve found yourself twice now in a kind of relationship with women willing to do some pretty strange things in order to get something.

If I had to live in a house with my ex, a really big house at that. I certainly wouldn’t have to sleep with our 5 year old in between us all in the same bed.

It’s all rather strange, at the very least these women seem to think that you do whatever to get a comfortable life. They don’t seem to value morals or anything very highly. I’d be concerned that if you ran into some difficulties in your life they’d be likely to bail on you to get the material things they wanted.

I’d suggest getting some counseling to talk about this to figure out yourself.

JJ

 

[EucaristiaDiv]

I think the thing you really need to figure out is what it is about women in really messed up situations that is so attractive to you. If you are trying to be the proverbial White Knight in shining armor or what.

It’s kind of like the woman who is in one relationship after another where the guy beats her. For some reason she is chosing to be in that type of relationship.

And you’ve found yourself twice now in a kind of relationship with women willing to do some pretty strange things in order to get something.

If I had to live in a house with my ex, a really big house at that. I certainly wouldn’t have to sleep with our 5 year old in between us all in the same bed.

It’s all rather strange, at the very least these women seem to think that you do whatever to get a comfortable life. They don’t seem to value morals or anything very highly. I’d be concerned that if you ran into some difficulties in your life they’d be likely to bail on you to get the material things they wanted.

I’d suggest getting some counseling to talk about this to figure out yourself.

JJ

I got arrested once (self defense) and one of them bailed me out. The one I’m talking about now gave me her visa with a lot of money to use to pay the lawyer and other expenses. So I obviously was not playing the armored knight and there was care present. That’s why it’s difficult to let go. Today she got extremely mad because I told her to enjoy the day next to her husband. I mean, really mad. I just find it funny at this point but it’s really hard to let go of someone you have feelings. I done it before so I guess I’ll have to do it again.

 

[RB2]

To EucharistaDiv:

#1)Seriously you should be in a confessional dealing with this mortal sin thats #1.
Preferably this matter should be seriously dealt
with from a moral perspective through a good priest.

What we have of Gods laws are a higher standard
than Protestants:
#2) People who are Christians(which is pretty much everyone in our culture) believe in a mono-theistic God, and baptism for the remission of sins and ‘marriage for life’.Its part of the ‘unto death do us part’ part of the oath they repeat as part of the
marriage ceremony. That oath is made before the same God with the same intentions as Catholics who are being married take. You have no right to presume on the legitimacy of their union. That is only something (if you are a serious Catholic) that the Catholic Church can do. You have no right
to marry or date someone who has been married
or is married. You have no right in the process towards making a woman leave another man she
is married to by your persuasion and sexual attractiveness or conversely by your loneliness
and your failure to follow proper moral precepts that God wants us to obey. Unless this woman
has annulment paperwork in proper time from a marriage
that shouldnt have been(a looser standard than strict Catholic teaching) or proper documents from the Catholic Church on this issue, you should not be dating her or provide reason or be a reason for the dissolution of her marriage.

You have no right to assume that
they dont worship the same God, and as such are not responsible as we are to their commitments to God,especially in marriage. Therefore you have no right to date her as a prelude to marriage.
And I want to stress 3 things:

The world is full of divorced people with stories blaming the other spouse for everything.
The world is full of people who will swallow
these stories.
Its all typical human nature, which God wants us
to transcend and be above the animals.

 

[elts1956]

I think the thing you really need to figure out is what it is about women in really messed up situations that is so attractive to you. If you are trying to be the proverbial White Knight in shining armor or what.

It’s kind of like the woman who is in one relationship after another where the guy beats her. For some reason she is chosing to be in that type of relationship.

And you’ve found yourself twice now in a kind of relationship with women willing to do some pretty strange things in order to get something.

If I had to live in a house with my ex, a really big house at that. I certainly wouldn’t have to sleep with our 5 year old in between us all in the same bed.

It’s all rather strange, at the very least these women seem to think that you do whatever to get a comfortable life. They don’t seem to value morals or anything very highly. I’d be concerned that if you ran into some difficulties in your life they’d be likely to bail on you to get the material things they wanted.

I’d suggest getting some counseling to talk about this to figure out yourself.

JJ

I got arrested once (self defense) and one of them bailed me out. The one I’m talking about now gave me her visa with a lot of money to use to pay the lawyer and other expenses. So I obviously was not playing the armored knight and there was care present. That’s why it’s difficult to let go. Today she got extremely mad because I told her to enjoy the day next to her husband. I mean, really mad. I just find it funny at this point but it’s really hard to let go of someone you have feelings. I done it before so I guess I’ll have to do it again.

Perhaps it is you who is frightened of commitment? Seems like you are playing it safe with women who are unavailable.

 

[quasimodo]

If by some quirk of fate you wind up with this woman, you will regret it for the rest of your life.

RUN! Now.

Never see her again. She is poison!!

(if you do wind up married to her, somehow - save this thread, it’ll come in handy your annulment process.)